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Perth Isla Street


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Last week, I the concious, but difficult descision to scrap "Strathklin Ferry", this was for a number of reasons:

 

1.) Time/ money (going off to college post summer so I can't overly commit financially or in time (5-6 days a week job).)

2.) Operational possibilities (there wasn't all that much to keep me interested plus it was a branchline anyway(not much their normally).)

3.) Lack of future-proofing (aside from adding a bit on the front, there was no where to really go.)

4.) No real proto-type (reading a number of comments from other people, modelling the real thing is easier (assuming that the right info is there).)

 

With this in mind, I began thinking about "could-have-beens". My thoughts turned to rail-served warehouses that sit just off-route unlike Prospect Wharf which gives me potential for passing trains to drop off/ pick up vans/ opens etc. Next, I thought about locations and Perth and a line NW. My reasoning for this is that the HR could have wanted their own line into Perth so would cross at Stanley Junction before working its way down across the Tay, past Perth Racecourse (traffic potential) and winding through the East side before rejoining at the bridge on the Dundee line. The project was started at the south-end (where most of the major works lie) but was abandoned at the Racecourse because the project was money down the drain. We could assume that a fictional company called the Perth, New Scone and Dundee Railway took on the exisiting works and built eastwards. This line would pass through New Scone, Balbeggie (with Perth Airport (potential traffic) built between the two and the farmlands of Kinnaird, Ballindean and Benvie before re-joining Ninewells Junction for a short blast into Dundee station. Further reality bending brings the story to the mid/ late fifties when pre-grouping locos were still working alongdside brand new diesels.

 

I chose Isla Street (just across the river from my old flat in Perth) as it basically the convergance (though the junction is further North) of the branch to Scone Palace/ Racecourse and is sited on the river, where warehouses would be found (esp. if Perth was bit hard by the industrial revolution). These warehouses would be filled with imported goods (nationally/ internationally) providing citizens to goods such as various exotic fruits and exportation of whisky (when it becme legal) and tartan from the North. Also, I will be returning to Perth to study post-summer giving me access to the area without having to plan a visit.

 

Traffic potentials I have spotted are as such:

 

Horse boxes and passengers to the racecourse

Dignitaries/ gamekeepers, etc to Scone Palace

Fruit pickers to the farms

General farm traffic (in and out) with rises with seasons

General passenger/ freight traffic.

Warehouse traffic (all manner of items from foodstuffs to whisky)

 

Motive power will be the hands of pre-grouping locos (Caley jumbo, 812, 439 (Palace Branch), NB J36, J37, NER J72 (Palace Branch (none were allocated to Perth but could be a Dundee loco on loan))), various LMS and LNER locos, a couple of Standards with early diesels thrown in for fun.

 

Anybody with any info (loco numbers, allocation dates) or pics, feel free to post them here.

 

All constructive comments are welcome as well.

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Last week, I the concious, but difficult descision to scrap "Strathklin Ferry", this was for a number of reasons:

 

1.) Time/ money (going off to college post summer so I can't overly commit financially or in time (5-6 days a week job).)

2.) Operational possibilities (there wasn't all that much to keep me interested plus it was a branchline anyway(not much their normally).)

3.) Lack of future-proofing (aside from adding a bit on the front, there was no where to really go.)

4.) No real proto-type (reading a number of comments from other people, modelling the real thing is easier (assuming that the right info is there).)

 

With this in mind, I began thinking about "could-have-beens". My thoughts turned to rail-served warehouses that sit just off-route unlike Prospect Wharf which gives me potential for passing trains to drop off/ pick up vans/ opens etc. Next, I thought about locations and Perth and a line NW. My reasoning for this is that the HR could have wanted their own line into Perth so would cross at Stanley Junction before working its way down across the Tay, past Perth Racecourse (traffic potential) and winding through the East side before rejoining at the bridge on the Dundee line. The project was started at the south-end (where most of the major works lie) but was abandoned at the Racecourse because the project was money down the drain. We could assume that a fictional company called the Perth, New Scone and Dundee Railway took on the exisiting works and built eastwards. This line would pass through New Scone, Balbeggie (with Perth Airport (potential traffic) built between the two and the farmlands of Kinnaird, Ballindean and Benvie before re-joining Ninewells Junction for a short blast into Dundee station. Further reality bending brings the story to the mid/ late fifties when pre-grouping locos were still working alongdside brand new diesels.

 

I chose Isla Street (just across the river from my old flat in Perth) as it basically the convergance (though the junction is further North) of the branch to Scone Palace/ Racecourse and is sited on the river, where warehouses would be found (esp. if Perth was bit hard by the industrial revolution). These warehouses would be filled with imported goods (nationally/ internationally) providing citizens to goods such as various exotic fruits and exportation of whisky (when it becme legal) and tartan from the North. Also, I will be returning to Perth to study post-summer giving me access to the area without having to plan a visit.

 

Traffic potentials I have spotted are as such:

 

Horse boxes and passengers to the racecourse

Dignitaries/ gamekeepers, etc to Scone Palace

Fruit pickers to the farms

General farm traffic (in and out) with rises with seasons

General passenger/ freight traffic.

Warehouse traffic (all manner of items from foodstuffs to whisky)

 

Motive power will be the hands of pre-grouping locos (Caley jumbo, 812, 439 (Palace Branch), NB J36, J37, NER J72 (Palace Branch (none were allocated to Perth but could be a Dundee loco on loan))), various LMS and LNER locos, a couple of Standards with early diesels thrown in for fun.

 

Anybody with any info (loco numbers, allocation dates) or pics, feel free to post them here.

 

All constructive comments are welcome as well.

 

Hi

 

Good idea, and thought process.

 

I would have expected the P, NS and D Railway to have extended up to, and joined the Strathmore Main Line just south of Coupar Angus (just north of Burrelton) - would also have been easier to then gain access to Dundee via Ardler junction and the Newtyle line, rather than build another line 'over the hill'.

 

Between Balbeggie and Burrelton, there would be the option of a small branch line to the quarry at Collace - more traffic potential?

 

You could then stretch the imagination that the Strathmore branch lines did not close as early as some did, and that there was a growing suburban service of trains to Perth via this line. And, if you can consider that steam was retained longer in Scotland that it was, more of the english locomotive classes were cascaded north (if the A4s could be used on the Aberdeen - Glasgow trains, well, why not some other classes?)

 

Well, I did say it was stretching the imagination! (But my own ideas for a layout have a 'new' locomotive depot built in Coupar Angus (to consolidate all the outbased locomotives in the Strath - to the planned 'LMS depot design') Your thought of the line from Perth via Balbeggie gives this more of a 'reason' to exist.

 

Locomotives allocated to Perth during the steam days can be obtained from a number of websites - www.steamsheds.co.uk - is good for shed allocations and specific locomotive allocation histories.

 

Good luck, and keep us informed of progress.

 

Jerry

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Hi, jerry. Thatnks for the info. The reason I chose rejoining at ninewells was that the hill isn't overly strenuous. Now that you mention Coupar, it would give the line reason to be a little more than a country backwater. Do you know what is extracted from the quarry at collace? I do like the idea of cascaded locosvon such runs and might make it a return thing with a royal scot in charge.

 

Will keep you posted.

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Not directly connected to Perth but the link between Dundee and the HR was proposed twice. Once as the Scottish North Western Railway and then as the Dundee and Highland. The later proposal was to come off of the Dundee Suburban railway and head out towards Balbeggie. I suspect the reason there was no suggestion to link it in to Perth ( apart from the exiting D-P branch) was that the grade to get in and out of Perth from this direction would have been quite ferocious.

 

You haven't said what size of layout or style you are planning but it sounds like a through route. If so I would think that one of the above would give sufficient traffic to justify a decent layout without modelling part of the HR mainline and the need for huge trains. If you are interested I have a number of maps of the proposals and some info which may help.

 

John

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Hi John, thanks for the offer, I'll keep the plans in mind for the future. I haven't decided on size yet but the original boards from "Strathklin Ferry" will be utilised along with another board (a shelf really) to give a longer run. It will be a through route giving me plenty of traffic from both dirctions. I deliberately cut off the HR connection so that I could run sensible length trains. I'm quite surprised that such ideas were floated around. Though its nice to know I wasn't far off the truth.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi, jerry. Thatnks for the info. The reason I chose rejoining at ninewells was that the hill isn't overly strenuous. Now that you mention Coupar, it would give the line reason to be a little more than a country backwater. Do you know what is extracted from the quarry at collace? I do like the idea of cascaded locosvon such runs and might make it a return thing with a royal scot in charge.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

Hi,

 

Ref to Collace Quarry.....

 

http://www.tayside-contracts.co.uk/collace-quarry.cfm

 

Primarily dry and coated roadstone - but that's a modern situation.

 

Previously records show'Rock of Volcanic origin' to have been extracted.

 

Some records show a quarry was used for slate production as well as crushed roadstone and cobbles.

 

Collace itself has a variety of stone materials either under or around it.

 

This ranges from the Volcanic Magma rocks to sandstone and mudstone.

 

Consult a gelogical maps to see more information!

 

Thanks

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Thanks Phil. Looks like I'll have to dig deeper. Might need to give Tayside Contracts a ring for a bit more info. One thing that can't establish is opening date which may ###### my plans. It also seems that a brand of fertilser is found in the quarry: http://www.selfsuffi...h.com/seers.htm .

Hi Paul,

 

This fertiliser is actually finely ground volcanic rock.

 

Checking back it appears the first period for a quarry at the location was when roadstone was being cut for the Turnpike Roads.

 

This would have been in from trhe early 1700's in Scotland but continued into the 1800's in several areas.

 

A check on old maps for the area will give an indication as to the actual location of the quarry at that time.

 

Thanks

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Rightio, next jobb, find OS maps of the mid-late 50s. Would we know what was been extracted at this point in time?

Hi Paul,

 

Dry Roadstone - 100% Certain.

 

Roadstone - Tarmacadam/Coated - less sure about this.

 

For that period most coating was done by the local councils themselves but it was around this time when the contractors started getting involved with the supply of coated materials.

 

The local council roads department may be able to give you information about this.

 

Thanks

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Thank you, Peter. Looks like my spur will leave at Kinrossie and curve north into Collace. I think I will use a 439 here for passenger with a variety of locos for the freight traffic.

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So, no real progress apart from ripping up the track that was intended for "Strathklin Ferry". I realised that I'm going to be short of space and money at college so Isla Street will be a long term thing. Going off the details already posted here, I've decided that I want to make this layout awesome and realisitic. I don't want to lose my modeling skills so will have a shunting plank for when I'm away (watch some space).

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