Wolseley Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 This arrived today. There are a few things to fix - chipped paintwork obviously and there is a slight bend in the left side of the cab roof, where I would guess it has been dropped on the floor. It has been brush painted rather than sprayed but whoever did it did a good job of it although, for some reason, they left the smokebox door mounting plate for the number on, something that I will correct. £49.99 from John Winkley. I was going to do an A4 in wartime black, but this will save me a bit of time..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCW Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) This arrived today. There are a few things to fix - chipped paintwork obviously and there is a slight bend in the left side of the cab roof, where I would guess it has been dropped on the floor. It has been brush painted rather than sprayed but whoever did it did a good job of it although, for some reason, they left the smokebox door mounting plate for the number on, something that I will correct. £49.99 from John Winkley. I was going to do an A4 in wartime black, but this will save me a bit of time..... P1010434.JPG That's a nice buy. I too have bought a couple of items from JW, (after he was recommended on this thread IIRC). While for us overseas buyers he doesn't deduct VAT, his prices and postage charges seem fair, and the items are accurately described. Be careful straightening that bend in the cab roof. The mazak can become brittle and you might have just one shot to get it right. Bending it too far and then bringing it back can cause the metal to fatigue and crack. Ask me how I know ......... By contrast with John Winkley I've had a mixed experience with Hattons' second hand purchases. The prices seem random, but can sometimes be good - especially as they deduct VAT - and their postage charges are the cheapest anywhere. But I've found that it pays to study closely the one or two photos they provide as the description of the item can be limited - almost as if those writing the item up are not sure what they're dealing with. That said, some locomotives sold by them as non-runners, and priced accordingly, have ended up running very well after some basic servicing. (Which has caused me a dilemma as I bought them to be cannibalised for parts.) The chassis of an otherwise very nice, early gloss finish "Silver King" I bought from Hattons was frozen solid. I thought for a moment that it had been deliberately araldited in some strange sabotage episode. But it turned out that the driving axles were seized in the frame through corrosion, something akin to that whitish "zinc rust", combining with dried out lubricants and dirt to form something akin to cement. No wonder the bodywork was in good condition as I suspect it hadn't turned a wheel for over 65 years. Penetrating oil and a lot of muscle power eventually freed it up and it is now a good runner. By the way, I liked your "hybrid" non-streamlined Duchess in wartime black with the streamlined tender you posted earlier. Mike Edited December 20, 2018 by MikeCW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Apparently they built the tenders first and then decided that it was pointless building them streamlined, resulting in the group (4)6249 - 53. This group had the 'Duchess front framing. The next group had 'utility' (the buzz-word at the time - everthing was 'utillity and had a mark (like two pac-men) to prove it) front enda and a new style of riveted tender. The Wrenn N2s use the R1 chassis and a new design of pony truck. They kept the unsightly huge safety valve base needed for the large top bearing fitted in the last years of Dublo (a pointless modification IMHO. It was already too large). As a result, the Wrenn locomotives have a set of rear guard irons behind the driving wheels and a second set on the pony truck. A plate mounted on the rear of the chassis locates in a slot added to the rear of the bunker. various weird and wonderful liveries are available. The real thing was always black, apart from the ones built by the GNR and one post-war example (9522). These were all fitted with condensing gear and thus not really relevant to the Dublo/Wrenn model. I have plans to fit one with with the pipework and paint her as the preserved example 4744. So far the project has got as far as the black and grass green paint, I do nave some 'G N R' transfers (Kitmaster). Does anyone know the diameter of the condensing pipes? I estimate something like 9-12", but the drawings I have are rather small and indistinct. There is a set af castings available on eBay from time to time, but I'm not convinced, as they fit into the sandbox rather than the boiler. I'm tempted by a black wartime A4.... Edited December 20, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Does anyone know the diameter of the condensing pipes? I estimate something like 9-12", but the drawings I have are rather small and indistinct. There is a set af castings available on eBay from time to time, but I'm not convinced, as they fit into the sandbox rather than the boiler. I'm tempted by a black wartime A4.... Hi David, My Roche drawing shows the pipes at just over 2mm equating to just over 6". How accurate it is I don't know as a few criticise them but other drawings get criticised too. At least bending a 2mm bar is easier than trying a 4mm piece. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) Hi Garry and thanks. Roche might even be right for once! There's always this one (about half way down). She's an N1 but nobody can see that under all that armour. It would need the whole train to be built though! https://nationalrailwaymuseum.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/armoured-trains-first-world-war/ I've found this helpful close up photo - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Great_Northern_Railway_%27N2%27_class_0-6-2T_at_Barrow_Hill%2C_2012._-_panoramio.jpg I should be able to estimate the ratio of condensing pipe to smokebox fom this. Not that the Dublo model is accurate, but it has to look right with it. Or I could visit the real one armed with a tape measure, but she lives rather along way from me. P.S. Zooming gives a ratio of about 1:6. Typically I don't have a Dublo N2 to hand (a chassis yes!) despite having lots of them (I plead the Fifth Amendment as to the exact number! ). It must be just under an inch though, which gives 3-4mm so back to square one. Perhaps I'll just settle for 1/8"? Cheers, David Edited December 21, 2018 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 That said, some locomotives sold by them as non-runners, and priced accordingly, have ended up running very well after some basic servicing. (Which has caused me a dilemma as I bought them to be cannibalised for parts. Which is part of the reason for me ending up with so many Duchesses (not sourced from Hattons though). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Hi David, You could always try writing to the railway/society where the N2 is based and ask them for the dimension. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Which is part of the reason for me ending up with so many Duchesses (not sourced from Hattons though). I can't bear having odd chassis or bodies! Therefore I have to source the missing parts.... (The dream of all those people who take perfectly good models apart to sell the bits separately!) But then you can't have 'Too many trains!' 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Be careful straightening that bend in the cab roof. The mazak can become brittle and you might have just one shot to get it right. Bending it too far and then bringing it back can cause the metal to fatigue and crack. Ask me how I know ......... I managed to straighten it out successfully using a pair of small needle nose pliers. It did take a bit of paint off the cab roof in the process though, but the paintwork needs a bit of touching up anyway.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) I have just heard the sad news that Tony Cooper passed away on Xmas day after taking ill on Xmas eve. Tragically his wife Marilyn passed away a few months ago too. I imagine their son Darren will continue but at the moment I think he is having some time off. I have known Tony for a good few years and been to his house a few times looking at new projects etc. Dublo world has lost a good and knowledgeable chap, RIP Tony. Garry Edited December 30, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I have just heard the sad news that Tony Cooper passed away on Xmas day after taking ill on Xmas eve. Tragically his wife Marilyn passed away a few months ago too. I imagine their son Darren will continue but at the moment I think he is having some time off. I have known Tony for a good few years and been to his house a few times looking at new projects etc. Dublo world has lost a good and knowledgeable chap, RIP Tony. Garry Very sad knew Tony and his family from the many toy fairs, swop meets,etc. Sad loss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 This arrived today. There are a few things to fix - chipped paintwork obviously and there is a slight bend in the left side of the cab roof, where I would guess it has been dropped on the floor. It has been brush painted rather than sprayed but whoever did it did a good job of it although, for some reason, they left the smokebox door mounting plate for the number on, something that I will correct. £49.99 from John Winkley. I was going to do an A4 in wartime black, but this will save me a bit of time..... Here it is now: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCW Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Following on from the above very nice A4 repaint, I have a couple of requests. Like Wolseley, I've recently picked up a good A4 from John Winkley. This one is an unmolested, nicely running, slightly playworn. "Silver King". The one fault is the common one, a moderately banana shaped tender top/coal load. I have a spare tender with a much better plastic top, but have been wondering if there is any technique others have discovered for straightening the distorted one - such as boiling water, remedial bending and quenching. (That is not proposed as a solution; just an example of the type of thing others might have tried.) Any suggestions - or even advice to "forget about it" - will be gratefully received and considered. Second, as I have four other A4s - 2 blue "Gresleys" and two boxed BR Green Silver Kings (gloss and matt) - I'm pondering returning this one to Dublo pre-war style, with side valences in place. Now I've not seen a pre-war Dublo A4 "in the flesh" but, from photos it seems clear that the valve gear is absent; only the con-rods and coupling-rods are there. If anyone can post a photo of a pre-war chassis, without the body in place, especially showing the residual "valve gear", that would be very helpful. In the unlikely event that anyone thinks I have larceny in mind, this would be for my own use and, with a square magnet chassis, could never pass as an original! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I don't think there is any way you can fix a warped tender top. Replacements are available - break the old one off and glue the new one on. I picked up a couple via eBay. The vendor i got them from goes under the name of stickycats (!) and is located in Western Australia. He charged $5 each for them (I bought them on two separate occasions) and, from memory, I think the postage was free or was fairly minimal. I just checked and he has nothing listed at the moment, but he's one of those vendors who doesn't always have items listed. I don't know if he makes them himself or not, so there may be other sources out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Second, as I have four other A4s - 2 blue "Gresleys" and two boxed BR Green Silver Kings (gloss and matt) - I'm pondering returning this one to Dublo pre-war style, with side valences in place. Now I've not seen a pre-war Dublo A4 "in the flesh" but, from photos it seems clear that the valve gear is absent; only the con-rods and coupling-rods are there. If anyone can post a photo of a pre-war chassis, without the body in place, especially showing the residual "valve gear", that would be very helpful. The pre-war Dublo A4 didn't have valve gear. I couldn't find a photo of a chassis on the 'net, but the one below of a complete loco shows all the motion that they had - there is nothing hidden. I haven't tried such a conversion but, even if the valances are paper thin, there wouldn't be much clearance. My guess is you might have to remove some of the valve gear from the chassis to get it to run. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Hi Mike, As mentioned you cannot do anything with a warped tender top. Warped ones were made from the cellulose acetate that early Tri-ang bodies were and it affects about 75% of items, why not 100% I dont know. During Silver Kings day it was changed, and, the design was. The original was quite thin along the edge but the later ones had a strengthening strip moulded along the edges. I will add a photo of these when on my PC later. The tops are held on by two plastic lugs melted over inside the body. Replacents in the UK have been good and bad. Some are of a rubber type material and when painted takes weeks or months to dry, I think I may have thrown mine waiting. Another type is narrower as the shrikage was not taken into account but did paint okay. Also at one time there were whitemetal ones which were better and added a little weight to the tender. It is a long time since I had any so no idea what maybe available at the moment and never tried the Aus ones. The valve gear was missing on the valanced Gresley and its bracket was slightly different in design to a BR A4, but, putting valances on the outside as many do you may be able to leave the full valve gear on. Dennis Williams used to sell replica ones of the old style. Garry Edited January 6, 2019 by Golden Fleece 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 You are lucky Garry mine are all bent to a lesser of greater degree. One or two are almost straight, but none are good. My attempts at straightening have only made matters worse. I think the only solution is one of the resin replacements that turn up from time to time or some scratchbuilding (or maybe the top from a Tri-ang/Hornby tender?). The prewar chassis has no valve gear and the connecting rod is a single unit that slides in a slot in the 'cylinder' in the manner that Hornby think is adequate for their 0-4-0Ts. Someone on eBay was selling etchings to make this gear (Coupling rods, connecting rods and cylinder unit) but I have.n't seen them for ages. The metal is rather thin so I bought two to laminate but it's another of those unfinished 'roundtoit' jobs. Somewhere on RMweb there is a template for the valance. i think clearances are a bit tight for the valance to cover the valvegear. Of course a valanced Gresley should have a horseshoe motor.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 This is a Silver King chassis.I modified the valve gear to a valenced version to fit under to fit under a Silver king body fitted with skirts.I made a new connecting rod from nickel silver. Ray. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Hi Mike,there`s nothing you can do with a warped tender top,I suppose the best way for you in your part of the world is to join the HRCA Australia which opens up a huge shedload of spares. http://www.hrcaa.net Failing that,an email to John Holland, http://www.mtrains.co.uk/ Ray. Edited January 6, 2019 by sagaguy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 You can squeeze a full valve gear chassis into the modified body. Ray. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Here are the different tender tops. Not only could they curl upwards but also sideways. Obviously only one of these is a warped one but you can see how there is no strength at the edges whether it was acetate or not although I doubt it would have made any difference. Garry Edited January 6, 2019 by Golden Fleece 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCW Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I have just heard the sad news that Tony Cooper passed away on Xmas day after taking ill on Xmas eve. Tragically his wife Marilyn passed away a few months ago too. I imagine their son Darren will continue but at the moment I think he is having some time off. I have known Tony for a good few years and been to his house a few times looking at new projects etc. Dublo world has lost a good and knowledgeable chap, RIP Tony. Garry Although a little late, I'd like to add to Garry's and "Locomad's" comments. Over the years I've bought a few small items from Tony, the latest some spare bulbs for Dublo colour light signals. Though I never met him in person, I did get a sense of him through our correspondence. He came across to me as a genial, straight-up person, with a dry (Northerner's?) sense of humour. He was a pleasure to deal with and I feel for Darren on the loss of both parents, too soon, and within a few months of each other. Mike 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Here are a few Dublo locos in real life. The crane is one of my own photos taken on the NYMR which is very similar to the Dublo one. Duchess of Montrose is seen here in both its Dublo versions of gloss and matt. Interestingly City of Liverpool has a red background nameplete. Bristol Castle looks to have had a tender swop, or, Dublo got it wrong? Denbigh Castle's chimney seems to be different to Bristol and Ludlows too being wider and shorter, I know there were variations in sizes but don't know if things like this were swapped, maybe the name got put on a different loco? There are a few footbridges around like the Dublo one but I have not seen any stations as such. The engine shed was reportedly taken from the one at Carnforth. Garry Edited January 9, 2019 by Golden Fleece 30 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Hi Garry; Dublo certainly got it wrong with Bristol Castle. Your photo shows the original locomotive. On the death of King George V!. someone had the bright idea of using Windsor Castle to haul his funeral train, as he had driven this locomotive on a visit to Swindon Works in the distant past. Unfortunately she was again in Swindon for overhaul, so they thought to switch plates with another Castle on the grounds, "Nobody will notice!". 7013 was the lucky choice and unlike Coronation's trip to the States the plates were never swopped back. Unfortunately there are significant differences* between early Castles and the last series and the swop was soon spotted! (Oops!). Someone in Binns Road thought Bristol Castle was the obvious choice to head their 'Bristolian' train set, but unfortunately.... *Most obviously the casing of the inside cylinders is fluted on early Castles and square on the later ones. Modifications resulted in this not being a hard and fast rule in later days, but the only one of the four Dublo Castles to be correct was Denbigh Castle. The flat sided tenders were originally fitted to the later Castles but soon got swopped around, as (G)WR practice was to just take the next suitable tender after overhaul. The LMS/LMR did much the same with the Coronations. By the time the Dublo model of Duchess of Atholl appeared, the real one was painted black and had blinkers and a streamlined tender. Even the green R1 is wrong. Apart from the awful colour, 31340 has her sandboxes under the running plate (like the second locomotive in your photo, which could even be 31340). The early models have 31337 on the smokebox - something I noticed at the time and was not impressed. Scrapping quickly followed the introduction of the model and IIRC 31340 had already gone. David Edited January 9, 2019 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Following on from the above very nice A4 repaint, I have a couple of requests. Like Wolseley, I've recently picked up a good A4 from John Winkley. This one is an unmolested, nicely running, slightly playworn. "Silver King". The one fault is the common one, a moderately banana shaped tender top/coal load. I have a spare tender with a much better plastic top, but have been wondering if there is any technique others have discovered for straightening the distorted one - such as boiling water, remedial bending and quenching. (That is not proposed as a solution; just an example of the type of thing others might have tried.) Any suggestions - or even advice to "forget about it" - will be gratefully received and considered. Second, as I have four other A4s - 2 blue "Gresleys" and two boxed BR Green Silver Kings (gloss and matt) - I'm pondering returning this one to Dublo pre-war style, with side valences in place. Now I've not seen a pre-war Dublo A4 "in the flesh" but, from photos it seems clear that the valve gear is absent; only the con-rods and coupling-rods are there. If anyone can post a photo of a pre-war chassis, without the body in place, especially showing the residual "valve gear", that would be very helpful. In the unlikely event that anyone thinks I have larceny in mind, this would be for my own use and, with a square magnet chassis, could never pass as an original! Mike Hi Mike,there are some repro tender tops on UK ebay at the moment,item number 223320904325 Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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