Hornby dublo

[sagaguy]

This was my kit of parts to build the coach.

 

                Ray.

[Dorkingian]

Hornby Dublo pictures here

 

I've just stumbled across your fascinating thread. 

 

Some people may also like to see a few photos of occasional HD rolling stock in action on my 00 garden railway:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84103-dorking-garden-railway-videos-in-00-scale/&do=findComment&comment=3066227

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84103-dorking-garden-railway-videos-in-00-scale/&do=findComment&comment=1936593

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84103-dorking-garden-railway-videos-in-00-scale/&do=findComment&comment=2016039

 

There may be a few more if you skim through the thread.  Hope they're useful!

 

[Dorkingian]

Wagons Roll!  A question about re-wheeling Hornby Dublo 3-rail wagons

 

As I now only run a 2-rail railway, I want a good solution to replacing Hornby Dublo metal wheelsets with insulated ones.  Is there an effective way of putting modern needlepoint wheelsets into those tinplate retainers that clip inside HD wagon axleboxes (and coaches, for that matter)?  If so, I haven't found it yet.  Or can anyone please recommend a source of Hornby Dublo compatible insulated wheelsets?  Thanks for your help.

 

Here's a photo of some of those wonderful cast-bodied mineral wagons in the snow last year:

 

[sagaguy]

The perennial problem.I`ve been giving some thoughts on this on the Hornby Dublo enthusiasts Face book page using Peco brass bearing or  top hat bearings.There are one or two problems.On my Trix Mk1 coaches which run very well on Dublo track fitted with modern Hornby coach wheels but you can`t fit them into Dublo coaches without making new shorter axles from 2mm silver steel & then you have the problem of dismantling Dublo coach bogies which are not designed to be taken apart.No answers at present i`m afraid.

 

                     Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Dublo rolling stock wheels are held in by tinplate tags which fit through slots in the frame and are then folded over lifting the tab will release the wheels (one is usually sufficient and the tab can be rebent at least once).  The mineral wagons present a problem as the wagon body is held on by the coupling rivets and the floor covers the tabs (but there is the neater SD6 version which is already 2 rail). Nucro/Jackson metal wheels are available on eBay from time to time and come with plain axles which will fit easily, A version to Dublo standards was once available but they are now like hen's teeth. Fitting pinpoint wheels require the fitting of tophat bushes and a short axle. It's around 24.5mm long but varies from vehicle to vehicle due the tags not always being bent the same. Each will need individual fitting, but it works well (I have only done a WELTROL to date...). The hassle is in shortening the axles. I do it with a drill stand and a file, but it is easy to remove too much

[D51]

I have not tried this conversion myself, but Markits supply rolling stock wheels, all types, on 2mm diameter axles of lengths 24mm (plain?), 24.5mm (pin-point for Lima), 25.5mm (pin-point for modern Hornby) and 26mm (normal length pin-point).

Alan Gibson can also supply wheels on 24.5mm or 26mm axles.

All these are for 16.5mm gauge.

 

Frank

[Il Grifone]

Unfortunately The Dublo axle is slightly over 2mm and the Peco insulaxle well under so a swop is ruled out. (Aluminium would make pinpointing easy, but they are rather expensive these days.) I have thought about reaming out the wheels and fitting an insulating sleeve (from soon to be illegal plastic cotton buds - I must stock up). I have a supply of 3 hole wheei bought cheap before realising they were uninsulated (yep that old!), so these have to be done anyway. The sintered iron Dublo wheel profile leaves something to be desired in any case, being uncompromisingky square so probably it would not be worth the effort.

 

I seem to recall trying Lima wheels (they run well on Dublo track despite my later comment) and the axle is still a tad too long. They are also only 11.5 mm diameter* and also have a nasty profile. The shiny metal ones tend to be eccentric and care has to be taken as only one wheel is insulated. This won't apply to Markits version of course.

 

* As would be expected, it's one metre in H0 scale.

 

 

[sagaguy]

5 hours ago, D51 said:

I have not tried this conversion myself, but Markits supply rolling stock wheels, all types, on 2mm diameter axles of lengths 24mm (plain?), 24.5mm (pin-point for Lima), 25.5mm (pin-point for modern Hornby) and 26mm (normal length pin-point).

Alan Gibson can also supply wheels on 24.5mm or 26mm axles.

All these are for 16.5mm gauge.

 

Frank

I think the problem may be that these wheels are finescale & may not like HD 3 rail pointwork.The only way i can see is to fit modern Hornby coach wheels( i use these on my Trix Mk1 coaching stock with great success) on shorter 2mm axles.

 

                       Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Modern Hornby wheels are AFAIK made to the same standards as Markits wheels, but running on Dublo track does not seem to be the question here. Scale wheels don't like Dublo 3 rail because the gauge  is excessively wide (18mm!) at the point blades. They also bump at the crossing, which is designed for Dublo flange depth. Dublo 2 rail (and strangely pre-war 3 rail) is not quite as critical.

 

Straightening the curved stock rail as far as the blades will cure the gauge widening problem, but then makes the blades a bit tight in operation.

 

[LMS2968]

Just found this thread. I started with HD at Christmas 1955 with a 2-6-4T, three coaches and a handful of wagons. I still have the loco, and it's still in working order. I did have a layout up to about four years ago but had to lift it; it ran quite well considering it was laid directly on the carpet! The attic floor allowed a layout 19' 3" x 4' 3", so room for some big trains.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LMS2968
Duplicate photo.

[Colin_McLeod]

LMS2968 that's an impressive layout

 

[sagaguy]

15 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Modern Hornby wheels are AFAIK made to the same standards as Markits wheels, but running on Dublo track does not seem to be the question here. Scale wheels don't like Dublo 3 rail because the gauge  is excessively wide (18mm!) at the point blades. They also bump at the crossing, which is designed for Dublo flange depth. Dublo 2 rail (and strangely pre-war 3 rail) is not quite as critical.

 

Straightening the curved stock rail as far as the blades will cure the gauge widening problem, but then makes the blades a bit tight in operation.

 

The Hornby wheels do run smoothly on 3rail track but the back to back does need opening out to about 14.2mm as far as i can recall.

 

               Ray.

[Dorkingian]

Thanks to all those of you who contributed thoughts in response to my query about replacing Hornby Dublo metal wheels with insulated alternatives; there's plenty for me to reflect on.

 

Meanwhile, here are a few photos of the Hornby Dublo 8F enjoying winter sunshine on my Dorking Garden Railway:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Dorkingian
spacing

[Il Grifone]

14 hours ago, sagaguy said:

The Hornby wheels do run smoothly on 3rail track but the back to back does need opening out to about 14.2mm as far as i can recall.

 

               Ray.

 

I shall have to experiment though I have plenty of spare Dublo wheels.

The current (and now very expensive!) wheels come set to 14.5mm (or should). I used to regauge them to 16.5mm for EM before I decided that my BR stock would be 00 gauge and moved them all back again. I still set brake gear for EM gauge just in case I change my mind again! Being only 2.5mm wide, I would have thought they would drop into the 3 rail pointwork without being eased out a bit.

 

On the other hand, the earlier wheels (plastic centres with metal tyres measure out at 14,2mm (the HD standard) and would run perfectly (apart from the eccentric flange rims...) The set I have to hand (from my latest purchase a Hornby Prestwin* - well it was very cheap) have a definite wobble.

 

* An awful thing! It's too tall and too thin around. The tanks measure a scale 7' 6" diameter and should be 8' 6" and it sits on the Trackmaster legacy underframe 16' over headstocks instead of 17' 6" and 9' 6" wheelbase instead of 10' (passble for the two Trackmaster wagons, but not much else.) It's not helped by Hornby's insistance on setting the buffers 6" too high. I thought I might be able to do something with it, but Dublo's version is far better.... Perhaps sticking it on a Dublo underframe will improve matters? or I could run it behind a Lima 4F?

 

^

[jimwal]

Dorkingian, your images show just how well Meccano Ltd did in capturing the overall shape of the Stanier 8F. Along with the BR std 2-6-4T I regard these as the best two Hornby Dublo locos ever made. 

[Il Grifone]

Those two do have driving wheels* which are the right size and good representations of the real wheel, but my favourite is still the 'Castle', but then I'm biased (see below).

 

*The less said about the pony/bogie/tender wheels the better. Replacing these makes a great improvement, but IIRC causes clearance problems on Dublo curves. The tender requires much hacking of very tough zinc alloy.... 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Il Grifone
Mixed up commas and full stops, but it is late,,,,

[Dorkingian]

A visiting Wrenn "Clan Line" lends a 1950s aura to the Dorking Garden Railway, below.  I wonder if Wrenn cheated and just used the HD West Country body and chassis, which is presumably too short for a Merchant Navy (and maybe even for a West Country) .

 

 

 

 

[sagaguy]

Modern Hornby will run on Dublo 3 rail track but needs careful adjustment.I`ve been doing some work on my 2BIL,EMU over the past few evenings finding out why it`s fine on some points & not others.The first problem that is encountered is that traversing the curved portion of electric points.it will suddenly stop & hurl itself of the track.Careful inspection revealed that under the outside third collector shoe beam,there are finely moulded plastic collector shoes.These were hitting the motor casing of the point motor,these were removed & now it clears the motor although there is not much clearance for the shoe beam.Another problem is that the trailer car is very light & derails very easily.Luckily enough,there is enough room to insert a strip of lead sheet under the seating unit after removing the body & seat unit.Being near finescale wheels,the do have a problem with the gauge widening on some of the curved portions of the points,as the bogie enters the curve,the wheel set can drop off the inner rail.Increasing the back to back of the wheel set seems to cure this.I hope these few observations will help any one who wants to convert & run these superb models,perhaps that`s the difference between Dublo & Hornby,Dublo was sold as a

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the Wrenn 'Merchant Navy' was identical to the 'West Country apart from name and number. There appears to be some dimensional error as the model does not look quite 'right'. I must measure mine when I get around to replacing her lining etc.

 

I posted this in 'eBay Madness' but it's really relevant here (some scrolling is necessary as they've removed the post numbers - it's near the bottom of page 898).

 

 

An interesting valuation of Dublo SR vehicles (there were also a goods van and open wagon which went for similar sums). Now I know they are rare, but????? I need another open wagon, but it looks like I'll have to make do with the one I've got. (A collection needs two - open wagon and coal wagon though the only difference (apart from the box) is the 'coal' load (invariably shrunk/warped a smade of acetate).

Further to my remark as to a later printing, it would appear that these were the LMS and LNER set wagons (van,open and brake), LMS high sided and meat, LNER brick, fish and horse box and the GWR cattle truck, plus the new tank liveries of course. At least that is what I got for Xmas 1951 along with a  'Duchess of Atholl'. Most have survived their less than careful owner, though I was stupid enough to throw out all the boxes. Who would have thought that one day they would be 'worth' as much as the contents?

[Dorkingian]

Talking about the Duchess of Atholl reminds me of the day a friend brought a rather battered version to visit.  Being 3-rail, she couldn't run on my layout, but still managed to look stately:

 

 

[Il Grifone]

If anyone needs a Southern Railway 0-6-2T and wagons....  (Cheap at the moment!)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Hornby-Dublo-Electric-Train-Set-Track-Steam-Engine-Station-Signal-More/223438733167?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D56580%26meid%3Db099fba9920e493ba30aea8d36f91130%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D223447891003%26itm%3D223438733167&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

 

A late horseshoe with the malachite livery (probably 1948) and van (lurking in there) open wagon and brake. All in need of TLC. The transformer is for a collection only. I wouldn't plug it in and not just because of the badly wired plug. It has rubber insulation which pased its 'use by' date' about fifty years ago.

The Crescent signal appears to have all its ladders and levers - unusual!

It's for charity, so that's an excuse for SWMBO. I was told, "No!" Something about too many already.... 

 

For a model designed before the war, the Duchess is really excellent, though why they didn't fit the right size wheels I don't know, They are obviously from the A4. (The real wheels are different.) My theory was that they originally intended the range to be H0, but thought better of it, but I am told the range was always to be 00 (or rather 5/32": 1 foot).

Edited March 15, 2019 by Il Grifone

[LMS2968]

1 hour ago, Dorkingian said:

Talking about the Duchess of Atholl reminds me of the day a friend brought a rather battered version to visit.  Being 3-rail, she couldn't run on my layout, but still managed to look stately:

 

 

 

I always felt that the original 'Duchess' version was far better than the later 'City' type. Yes, the original had some faults, mostly to do with the cab roof being too low compared with the tender bulkhead (easily fixed), and it didn't have the detail of the later version but the outline was far better. This was most noticeable at the lower front of the firebox where it meets the running plate: it is correctly curved on the Duchess and merges into the boiler barrel better. On the City it's a great, flat slab which looks all wrong.

[Il Grifone]

Fitting the right size driving wheels will sort out the height problem, though the result goes like a scalded cat!*  (Modern Hornby do the right wheels, but they might have 3mm axles?). This then upsets the height of the front bufferbeam, so is not 100% straightforward.

 

* My horseshoe Duchess came with them (26mm Romfords IIRC). She was the victim of an abandoned attempt at detailing and was even more prone to flying off the track on Dublo corners (one can't call 1½ chains* a curve!) than Duchesses usually are and I had to fit a set of the proper wheels.

*They are actually 15mm less but it's near enough.

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Dorkingian]

Another dishy Duchess

 

An attractive duchess arrived to stay with us recently, courtesy of friend Colin who couldn't see his way to continuing his relationship with her.  So it seemed only polite to give her an opportunity to pose in the afternoon sun. 

 

Unfortunately that's all she'll be able to do on the Dorking Garden Railway unless I can find a 2-rail chassis for her or get her converted (do Scalespeed do such operations, I wonder).  Anyway, she appeared to be enjoying today's outing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dorkingian]

And another couple of pics:

 

While she's quite a looker, as with many of us, close-up photos do reveal a few blemishes, not least the rust around the tender handrails: