Hornby dublo

[robmcg]

3 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

As far as I know, all the 3-rail 8f locos have the pick ups under the tender, and a wire to the loco.

 

Plastic pony truck wheels came in around 1958-9 I think, when the 2-rail system was introduced.

 

The wheels can be swapped, or even the pony truck, which is basically the same as used on the 4mt 2-6-4 Tank Locos...

The 8f pony truck on early models does not have a coupling fitted I think?

 

The original "half inch" motor was superceded by the Ringfield, that sticks out a bit!

 

Not sure which is "best"...or the most common...

 

The 8f loco is a lovely model...well I like it!

 

Thanks Sarahagain,

 

Just as you posted the much appreciated reply above I bought the 48073 version illustrated in my message, from Hattons, at UKP41.90  me being in NZ and VAT free..  UKP8 postage  can't be bad.   Looks like a 2-rail body being 48073 but definitely has pickups on tender, and being Hattons would have been tested and runs ok. 

 

 

I consulted my books and it seems the 48094 Ringfield 3-rail is the rare one, but earllier 3-rail 48158  is to my mind just as good, I've never had issues with the pre-Ringfield models.

 

Now to hunt out a mint 48158 in a bargain bin!

 

Best wishes

Edited August 29, 2019 by robmcg

[Retro_man]

The rare one...

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Retro_man

[sagaguy]

A short video of my 48158 with a 1/2" motor .it was bought new for me in 1958.A drop of oil & it was as good as new.

 

                      Ray.

 

                        

 

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, Retro_man said:

The rare one...

 

 

 

 

Shouldn't that be kept in an air-conditioned temperature-controlled humidity-controlled dust-free vault somewhere? 

[Dava]

We have catalogued a collection of Hornby Dublo 3 rail items donated to the Friends of the Great Central Main Line. This includes 4 locos, many carriages, wagons, track & accessories. All in running order. All funds raised will go to the GCR 'Unify' project canal bridge appeal.

 

Please PM me with your email address if you would like a copy of the list.

 

Dava

[LMS2968]

A bit late now but I have the 3-rail 8F with the smaller 1/2" motor. When the layout was down, and it was 19' 3" long so long straight sections, this engine would draw thirty wagons and a brake around the inside track with 15" curves. I never liked the later models with the Ringfield motor sticking out of the cab. How exactly was the fireman supposed to work around that?

[Colin_McLeod]

On the EBay madness thread it was mentioned that Hornby Dublo used to produce a fixed uncoupling ramp before the one with the lever to raise it up.

 

Since followers of this Hornby Dublo thread may not have seen the  E bay thread I am raising it here in the hope that someone may shed light on it.

 

Any info out there?

 

 

[Bill Matters]

Good luck anyone trying to uncouple with it.

 

As Wolseley said in the original thread it is a roadway for the level crossing.

[kevinlms]

On 04/09/2019 at 06:03, Colin_McLeod said:

On the EBay madness thread it was mentioned that Hornby Dublo used to produce a fixed uncoupling ramp before the one with the lever to raise it up.

 

Since followers of this Hornby Dublo thread may not have seen the  E bay thread I am raising it here in the hope that someone may shed light on it.

 

Any info out there?

 

 

Raising it here, a good one!

[Wolseley]

Oh dear.  After saying that I wasn't going to buy any more Duchesses for a while (I think I have something like 15 or so of them), I have gone and got myself a Wrenn City of Stoke on Trent, in LMS post-war lined black.  Next job now is to convert it to three-rail and to fit a proper coupling instead of that tension lock thing......

[GeoffAlan]

On 28/07/2018 at 07:28, Il Grifone said:

Apart from Zinc Pest, which afflicted some makes, they were all built to last*. At school we rather looked down on Tri-ang, because it was plastic. Dublo then showed us what could be done. startingf with the SD6 grain wagon,  for which I parted with 6/9d to acquire shortly after its release.

 

My list of Dublo now runs to several pages so I won't even start.... Likewise Trix and Tri-ang etc.

 

SWMBO says I have too much....     

 

* I read somewhere recently that General Motors invented 'planned obsolescence' in the late fifties. Other car manufactures were not slow to copy and the practice has infected almost everything else since.

 

A word of caution!

The vintage controllers should be OK as the voltage is low. but the matching transformers should only be kept for show due to insukation break down. PVC mains leads should be OK*, but the cotton covered rubber leads are well past their 'use by' date (25 years). If in any doubt, either don't use it or get it checked by a competent electrican.

 

* I have a 'Marshall' transformer variable transformer/controller. Though fitted with a PVC mains lead, there was rubber insulated wire inside. It was on the low voltage side and not actually touching anything, but I replaced it anyway. They were assembled with rivets to avoid tampering. I repiaced these with nuts and bolts to show that the unit has been modified. Originally is not a problem. as the power units are worth very little.

Yes, my 1954/5 built unit died the death in the 1990s. By then, having moved to N gauge in the 1970s, it was used for it's dc 12v continuous and 15v ac only. 

[Il Grifone]

On 03/09/2019 at 22:03, Colin_McLeod said:

On the EBay madness thread it was mentioned that Hornby Dublo used to produce a fixed uncoupling ramp before the one with the lever to raise it up.

 

Since followers of this Hornby Dublo thread may not have seen the  E bay thread I am raising it here in the hope that someone may shed light on it.

 

Any info out there?

 

 

 

Peco did produce (still do?) a fixed ramp. Basically it consists of two flexible 'check rails' curved inwards at one end. Pushing two vehicles from this end will open the couplings and reversing will leave one uncoupled. Pushing further past the ramp will allow them to couple again and now reversing will cause the droppers to pass through the centre of the ramp and remain coupled (in theory at least!). This is fine for sidings, but not much use elsewhere. The Dublo (and Trix*) uncouplers only function by lifting the uncoupling ramp either manually or electrically.

 

* Since the droppers are at a different spacing, they are not compatible though identical in function.

[Wolseley]

20 hours ago, Wolseley said:

Oh dear.  After saying that I wasn't going to buy any more Duchesses for a while (I think I have something like 15 or so of them), I have gone and got myself a Wrenn City of Stoke on Trent, in LMS post-war lined black.  Next job now is to convert it to three-rail and to fit a proper coupling instead of that tension lock thing......

 

Here she is, together with the City of Bradford (a three railed and repainted City of London) for comparison.

 

[Wolseley]

I just counted my Duchesses/Coronations - with the addition of the City of Stoke on Trent, I now have sixteen of them with the possibility of constructing two more streamliners from a couple of spare Tri-ang chassis and bodies and tenders I have in a box in the cupboard....

[MikeCW]

Although I've been following this thread with interest, I haven't done much Dublo refurbishment, restoration or repainting since my conversion of the two-rail "Barnstaple" into a three-rail "Padstow" back on page 29.

 

However, over the last two weeks I've got cracking and completed the repaint of a "Silver King" into 60018 as it might have appeared in early 1948 after its new BR identity had been applied to its LNE paint job.  The engine was a play-worn, non-running item bought for small money from, if I recall, Hattons. The tender was bought separately.  It probably came off a two-rail A4 as the tender wheels are insulated - one side metal wheels, the other side plastic. The locomotive was simply seized solid with dried-out lubricant which had turned into something like concrete.  After liberal applications of WD40 and penetrating oil (keeping any aggressive solvents off the armature) I freed it up and, after a new lube and an armature adjustment, it simply purrs along.

 

I was originally going to rebuild it as a pre-war engine with valences but took the simpler option this time (I have another A4 in stock for the pre-war conversion). Hence  the absence of smokebox number plate which I ground off before the change of plan.

 

The blue paint I mixed myself from Humbrol enamels.  I can dig out the numbers if anyone is interested. The decals and nameplates are Modelmaster.  I was in two minds about the size of the tender lettering.  The smaller size might have been more accurate but, on a plain blue tender, looked "lost" when I offered up the transfer on its backing paper to get a sense of how it would appear when applied. The nameplates had BR black backgrounds which I stripped off by dipping them into paint-stripper.  When they were thoroughly clean and dry I resprayed them red and raised the letters and border by lightly polishing them with a very fine abrasive pad on a flat surface.

 

The "parabolic" red/white lining along the edge of the black smokebox paint defeated me, as it did the skilled, female, detail painters in Binns Road, so I left it off.  Not seen in the photos are the Dublo Surgeon silver "Hornby" label transfers which I added to the rear of the locomotive cab and underside of the tender - not to deceive anyone but to acknowledge the origin of the model. I looked at a couple of colour photos of A4s in their post-war blue livery.  In at least one case the tyres of the driving and pony wheels were painted red as well as the spokes and rims.  I initially followed that example but it looked all wrong so I scraped the wheel sides clean again.

 

The original rusty handrail wire was replaced with 0.8mm stainless steel wire, held on with 0.8mm split pins.  It is finer than the original but doesn't look out of place.  I always struggle to bend the tails of the split pins flush against the inside of the body.  I'd like to see the tool that was used in the Meccano factory.

 

The original tender top was badly warped. I fitted a replacement sourced from the internet after Sagaguy spotted their availability again (top of page 28 of this thread). I suspect that they are slightly narrower than the originals but I'm happy with them. The light has created a shadow which makes the join between tender body and top more visible in the photos than it is in reality.

 

"Sparrow Hawk" is photographed posed on a length of Dublo track on my under-construction "scale" layout.  It is hauling a rake of  Hornby Margate/Railroad Gresley coaches, which have been repainted (and in one case "cut and shut" into an articulated sleeper as in this thread

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75178-reproducing-varnished-teak-improving-latest-Hornby-thompsons/page/6/

 

towards the bottom of page 6.

 

I notice that I haven't cleaned the buffer heads of blue paint, and the whistle needs some attention as well. And I need to paint the cabside works plate "brass". Back to the workbench for another half hour.

 

Now, where did I put that Wrenn West Country which will become a three-rail "Wadebridge"?

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by MikeCW

[NCB]

On 03/09/2019 at 21:03, Colin_McLeod said:

On the EBay madness thread it was mentioned that Hornby Dublo used to produce a fixed uncoupling ramp before the one with the lever to raise it up.

 

Since followers of this Hornby Dublo thread may not have seen the  E bay thread I am raising it here in the hope that someone may shed light on it.

 

Any info out there?

 

 

 

The original Dublo couplings were quite different from the Peco one adopted after the war. I believe they had a prong pointing downwards from the coupling loop for uncoupling, which suggests that a simple ramp would be enough to uncouple. The lever ramp was designed by S. C. Pritchard at the same time as his coupling, which suggests Hornby adopted coupling and ramp at the same time.

Nigel

[MikeCW]

Prompted by the kind comments about "Sparrow Hawk" above, I did indeed pull out the Wrenn "Barnstaple" and gave it a serious looking at. I had everything on hand that I needed to effect the 3-rail conversion and, as the weather meant I couldn't mow the lawns, I started the project.  Fitting a standard Dublo 3-rail collector to Dublo/Wrenn 2-rail West Country Pacifics is straightforward.  It's fully described on my "Padstow" conversion post on page 26 (with follow up on page 29) so I won't repeat it here.  In summary, the work to reach the stage depicted in the images below included:

 

1. Removing the 2-rail wiper pick ups and fitting a Dublo 3-rail collector.  This was a reproduction item bought for this project some time ago and required some fettling to assemble neatly, and for the spring to bear evenly and with satisfactory pressure on the two collector spoons.

2. Removing the motor back bearing plate (with all wiring in place), turning the ringfield magnet top to bottom, (so the engine will run "right direction" as a three rail locomotive), lubricating the bearing and reassembling.  If you try this, don't lose the tiny ball which acts as a thrust bearing on the top end of the motor shaft.

3. Removing a scale screw coupling, fitted by a previous owner, from the front buffer beam and installing a reproduction Dublo item. I noticed after I took the photos that, when posing the engines, I knocked it into a horizontal position.  It now hangs as it should.

4. Painting out the locomotive number on each side of the cab with my precious, diminishing supply of Humbrol BR locomotive green.

5. Renumbering as 34007 with Modelmaster waterslide decals.

6. Removing the original nameplates and attaching, over the Barnstaple name and crest, the Modelmaster "Wadebridge" nameplate and shield. (These really lift the locomotive's "presence".)

7. Sealing the decals and nameplates with satin polyurethane varnish.

8. The centre wheels on the tender were missing, so I found a pair which were a close match for the two pairs on the tender, turned off the flanges, painted the tyres black, and fitted them,

9. As with "Padstow", I drilled the insulating bush on the front and rear insulated drivers and forced the end of a brass split pin into the hole.  This breaks the insulation and makes "Wadebridge" a "proper" 3-rail engine. A dab of Humbrol 85 conceals the brass pin, though you might be able to make it out at the "5 minutes to 12 o'clock" position on the rear driver, especially if you enlarge the second photo. 

10.  "Wadebridge" still carries a tension lock coupling on the tender. I've not decided whether to replace it with a Dublo version or leave it in place so she can haul Triang/ Hornby coaches on occasion.

 

And here she is, after a couple of longish sessions on the workbench,  with her sister from further down the Camel Estuary.  I'm pleased with them both and, on my short test track, they both run very well.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by MikeCW
Grammar

[Wolseley]

On 16/09/2019 at 06:23, NCB said:

 

The original Dublo couplings were quite different from the Peco one adopted after the war. I believe they had a prong pointing downwards from the coupling loop for uncoupling, which suggests that a simple ramp would be enough to uncouple. The lever ramp was designed by S. C. Pritchard at the same time as his coupling, which suggests Hornby adopted coupling and ramp at the same time.

Nigel

 

The original Dublo couplings coupled automatically, but there was no automatic uncoupling.  For the downward projection to have been capable of uncoupling by use of a ramp would have required its redesign, as the whole of the coupling was above the level of the axles.  I suspect that the spring steel of the coupling may have been a bit too rigid for this to work anyway.

 

The lever ramp was, as you say, introduced at the same time as Sydney Pritchard's Simplex coupling, with the electronic uncoupler following, I think, two or three years later.

 

Here is a link to the patent for the original Dublo coupling: https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/ViewerJS/#../Patents/Pat_pdf/GB0509333A.pdf 

 

and the patent for the Pritchard coupling: https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/ViewerJS/#../Patents/Pat_pdf/GB0605283A.pdf

[NCB]

10 hours ago, Wolseley said:

 

The original Dublo couplings coupled automatically, but there was no automatic uncoupling.  For the downward projection to have been capable of uncoupling by use of a ramp would have required its redesign, as the whole of the coupling was above the level of the axles.  I suspect that the spring steel of the coupling may have been a bit too rigid for this to work anyway.

 

The lever ramp was, as you say, introduced at the same time as Sydney Pritchard's Simplex coupling, with the electronic uncoupler following, I think, two or three years later.

 

Here is a link to the patent for the original Dublo coupling: https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/ViewerJS/#../Patents/Pat_pdf/GB0509333A.pdf 

 

and the patent for the Pritchard coupling: https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/ViewerJS/#../Patents/Pat_pdf/GB0605283A.pdf

Thanks for the info. I was going by a description, I think in Hornby Dublo Trains, in the Hornby Companion series. It rather implied that the rear prong was long enough to enable automatic uncoupling. Evidently not.

 

Nigel

[45568]

23 hours ago, MikeCW said:

 

5. Renumbering as 34007 with Modelmaster waterslide decals.

6. Removing the original nameplates and attaching, over the Barnstaple name and crest, the Modelmaster "Wadebridge" nameplate and shield. (These really lift the locomotive's "presence".)

 

Hi Mike,

              Without wishing to p*ss on your chips, I feel obliged to point out that 34007 'Wadebridge' was never rebuilt.

 Sorry!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[MikeCW]

3 hours ago, 45568 said:

Hi Mike,

              Without wishing to p*ss on your chips, I feel obliged to point out that 34007 'Wadebridge' was never rebuilt.

 Sorry!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I find that most unreasonable of British Railways!  Ah well, it's only a toy train and it looks good to me.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Il Grifone]

The original Dublo coupling was rather rubbish. It easily deforms and/or rusts and then fails to operate.

 

I just found a discourse on wheel profile

[Il Grifone]

On 19/09/2019 at 18:03, Il Grifone said:

The original Dublo coupling was rather rubbish. It easily deforms and/or rusts and then fails to operate.

 

I just found a discourse on wheel profile

 

In case anyone could be bpthered to read "Yet more Grifone waffle!" and was mystified by the last bit, it happened thogh loss of the internet while writing.

 

Basically it refers to an article on NMRA research into wheel profiles (from a 'Model Railroader' of around 1960 IIRC) and the discovery than a curved web between tyre and flange helps track holding. Now if they'd looked at a Dublo wheel from 20 odd years before....

[NCB]

7 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

In case anyone could be bpthered to read "Yet more Grifone waffle!" and was mystified by the last bit, it happened thogh loss of the internet while writing.

 

Basically it refers to an article on NMRA research into wheel profiles (from a 'Model Railroader' of around 1960 IIRC) and the discovery than a curved web between tyre and flange helps track holding. Now if they'd looked at a Dublo wheel from 20 odd years before....

 

However ... NWSL in their wheels departed from the NMRA profile by having a much smaller fillet radius. The reason was that they found that the NMRA profile gave poor running! 

 

Having looked at the same issue myself recently, I think it's a case of one size doesn't fit all. If you have wheels with a fairly deep flange you can get away with almost anything in the wheel profile, including a large fillet radius. If you have fine scale wheels you can't. There's a good case for keeping the fillet radius small.

 

Nigel

[sagaguy]

My Sir William Stanier FRS,a conversion from a Wrenn City loco hauling my rake of LMS coaches.I must get around to putting some coal in the tender.