Hornby dublo

[MikeCW]

Thank you for the speedy response Ray. I think now I can see the way you did things and, if I'm to do another one, know how I can save myself some grief extra work.

 

Well done with the switches. As you say, it's remarkable what's still out there.  I suppose though, as the boxes are now 60 years old, they won't have that distinctive, Hornby Dublo, "new" smell that I can still recall on Christmas morning when I opened my stocking and found a boxed point or some tin-plate wagons and, one memorable year,, an 0-6-2T  to go with my Duchess.  The older I get the more I realise what a financial sacrifice these items meant for my parents.

 

I've bought a few items from JW. Found him good to deal with and the items he sells are accurately described and, in particular, advertised with plenty of clear photos.

 

Thanks again

 

Mike

[Il Grifone]

15 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Hi Mike,here`s a pic.It was a long time ago when i did this but i don`t recall having any problems.the valance was 10thou brass epoxied to & flush with the rib on the casting.It was an old Silver King body casting that i had been given but for some reason,someone had cut off the cast cylinder covers so the valence was one long piece of brass,this may explain why i had more clearance for the valve gear.

 

Incidentaly,i received yesterday morning from JW models in the UK,five brand new D2 isolating rail switches so there still is new stuff out there after all these years.

 

                                  I hope this pic helps.

                                              Ray.

 

Could the difference be the earlier thinner crank pins not requiring quite so much space? I seem to recall having the same problem myself. I went as far as getting some etched replacements from eBay (copies of the pre-war arrangement. They were too thin so I ordered a second set to beef them up and soldered the first one off centre, at which point the project was shelved. Every so often it comes to light and nags!

 

The switches are a nice bonus. The instructions are obviously intended to sell wire (available as a spare in red, green, and black - strange choice of colours ) as they state to wire both terminals of the switch to the isolating rail rather than one to the rail and one back to the controller. (The same thing is said for the TPO unit.) Trix were more honest. Most of their accessories return via the centre rail of the track

[sagaguy]

Meccano tried to make every thing simple as it was a table top railway designed to put up after tea and dismantled at bedtime. Although common return wiring is simple, I don't think that many dads at the time would have the knowledge to wire these, I know that mine certainly didn't, different times,different generation .

 

       Ray. 

[Il Grifone]

19 minutes ago, sagaguy said:

Meccano tried to make every thing simple as it was a table top railway designed to put up after tea and dismantled at bedtime. Although common return wiring is simple, I don't think that many dads at the time would have the knowledge to wire these, I know that mine certainly didn't, different times,different generation .

 

       Ray. 

 

You could be right, but were Trix dads cleverer than Dublo Dads? I don't think so. After all one wire is simpler than two.

 

I don't know what age I was when I worked out that Woolworth light switches at 7d were cheaper than Dublo (or Tri-ang or Trix) at several shillings*, but we were still living in Bristol and we moved when I was twelve. It must have been when I was still in primary school as our local Woolworth's was near my school. This was when they still sold cheap, but reasonable items and well before they tried to go upmarket and became expensive and full of stuff you didn't want to buy anyway (or is that just me?).

 

*As was Woolworth bell wire which I used for connecting things up. Being single core it was easier to avoid shorts from 'whiskers'  which easily occurred with Dublo multicore mains wire.

[sagaguy]

I can remember the sense of achievement when i wired up my first dublo electric signal in about 1954-5 when i would have been about 11.I remember Woolworths switches,small round bakelite black toggle switches,which were about one shilling(5p) each.I also remember the look of surprise on the young assistants face when i asked for 30yards of bell wire.Life was much simpler then but of course we didn`t have the spending power that we have today.

 

On a Dublo related subject,following on the success of 3 railing the modern Hornby 2BIL,my wife has bought me this,a Hornby 2HAL(Half Lavatory)emu to be fitted with a Marklin skate in the trailer car.

 

                       Ray.

[MikeCW]

8 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

Could the difference be the earlier thinner crank pins not requiring quite so much space? I seem to recall having the same problem myself.

I think that may be part of the answer David.  As I type this I have in front of me five Dublo A4s - two horseshoe motor "Sir Nigel Gresleys" and three "Silver Kings"  Two of the "Silver Kings" are earlier models with small crankpins;  all three have the body shell with "EDL 11" cast into the cab roof ceiling.  The "Gresley" body mouldings have smooth cab roof ceilings, 

 

Putting the dial calipers across the running plate of each of the engines, above the position of the expansion links, shows that the body widths vary.  The earlier "Gresley" body mouldings are about 1 mm wider, on average, at this point than the later EDL 11 versions.  Not a statistically significant sample I accept.

 

Also, on looking at each of the engines from underneath (the same view as my photo on the previous page) it looks as if the valve gear fits  (just) within the "foot print" of the running plate on the two "Gresleys", clearly exceeds the body width on the large crankpin  "Silver King", and is a close call on the two small crankpin "Silver Kings". 

 

So one answer seems to be to look carefully at your body/chassis combination when contemplating fitting valences.  Hornby Dublo A4 bodies and chassis can vary and, with the right combination, the full valve gear can be retained.

 

Mike

[Il Grifone]

I used the Woolworth mains (light) switches (a rather neat rocker device (new-fangled then) on an oval base). There was also a low voltage switch (intended for doll's houses I believe) which cost around a shilling and only came in on/off. Stingy even at a young age, I went for the cheaper one.

 

I've seen something similar in use on a layout in an old American magazine (possibly identical as they had Woolworths too) recently, but can't remember where.

 

I wouldn't have thought 15 yards of bell wire all that unusual. It needs to be double and by the time it's wound around the corners of the rooms more or less out of sight it could easily reach that length. It would depend where you put the transformer too. ( I have a Friedland* one somewhere MIB - I was going to use it for lighting but thought better of it as it's getting a bit long in the tooth.  I suppose most installations used the expensive bell batteries (as used in multiple for the Dublo battery controllers**) right by the door, but the battery cost nearly as much as the transformer....

 

*This sort of thing https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.picclickimg.com%2Fd%2Fl400%2Fpict%2F192907206239_%2FVintage-Friedland-B74-Bell-Transformer-In-Bakelite-Brown.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpicclick.co.uk%2FVintage-Friedland-B74-Bell-Transformer-In-Bakelite-Brown-192907206239.html&tbnid=_Mt1aNOejZTWqM&vet=12ahUKEwig2KTBypTlAhVSlxoKHaO-B6QQMygIegUIARDcAQ..i&docid=vOvm36lruJpKxM&w=300&h=400&q=friedland bell transformer 12v vintage&client=firefox-b-d&ved=2ahUKEwig2KTBypTlAhVSlxoKHaO-B6QQMygIegUIARDcAQ

 

**They used three of the things (at 3/3d a shot IIRC) and allegedly would give 9 hours running. Perhaps this could account for a few near mint sets still around today?

 

Looking for information, I came across this  https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=94738

 

Rightly one is concerned about the fire risk with an old transformer, but doesn't get the correct advice - chuck it out and fit a new one! (Says he who uses old Dublo Marshall IIIs and a Powermaster, but these are not left unattended and only used for running trains. No cotton covered and/or rubber insulated wire is involved)

 

The 3 watt calculated/guesstimated in post #38 seems a bit high to me. It would be a pretty poor transformer with that much loss. It's loading is much the same as a train controller say 12v 1A max. Now I'll have to check mine.... (If I can find it that is!)

 

Conversely the tagline of post #5 is 100% correct.... One of our cats does think it's her job to clear our her garden of mice, lizards etc.

 

The internet wastes a lot of time....

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

On 10/10/2019 at 16:00, MikeCW said:

I've bought a few items from JW. Found him good to deal with and the items he sells are accurately described and, in particular, advertised with plenty of clear photos.

 

I'll second that.  His postal charges are quite reasonable and just about everything I've bought from him has been as good as, or better than, expected.  Some have been new, such as Dublo switches and an unopened (well, it was unopened then, it isn't now) box of Trix figures.  There was only one item that disappointed me (a Dublo signal) and, with retrospect, I should have realised it was not the best, as it was a good bit cheaper than other comparable pieces he was selling.

[5050]

On 10/10/2019 at 19:18, Il Grifone said:

 

You could be right, but were Trix dads cleverer than Dublo Dads? I don't think so. After all one wire is simpler than two.

 

I don't know what age I was when I worked out that Woolworth light switches at 7d were cheaper than Dublo (or Tri-ang or Trix) at several shillings*, but we were still living in Bristol and we moved when I was twelve. It must have been when I was still in primary school as our local Woolworth's was near my school. This was when they still sold cheap, but reasonable items and well before they tried to go upmarket and became expensive and full of stuff you didn't want to buy anyway (or is that just me?).

 

*As was Woolworth bell wire which I used for connecting things up. Being single core it was easier to avoid shorts from 'whiskers'  which easily occurred with Dublo multicore mains wire.

I think I've still got a couple of those Woollies switches somewhere,  They will probably still work OK as there's nothing really to go wrong.  The single core bell wire was something I also used when I was a lad, probably on the advice of Cyril Freezer in the RM who often advocated it.  You had to be carefull not to bend it to many times though!

[sagaguy]

Latest addition to the fleet,the 2HAL up & running.

 

                        

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Has anyone else noticed an increase in the number of "Job lot" sales of decent quantities of Hornby Dublo on E bay recently?

[relaxinghobby]

I think this is a Hornby Dublo querey so I'll show my photos here.

 

 

 

 

 

Can any one identifie these two chassis?

The short one is 1/16 inch brass and appears to have Wren or Hornby wheels.

The longer one was I thought a Wren 0-6-0 t chassis fitted with Romford wheels but then now I'm thinking that it is from the Wren or Hornby Doublo 0-6-2 tank?

 

 

 

 

 

[mossdp]

The cast chassis is a Hornby Dublo or Wrenn R1. Wrenn used the same chassis for the N2 rather than the original Hornby Dublo one. I am not sure if the chassis was modified for this role or whether there was some sort of extension piece fitted to it as with at least one other Wrenn chassis. The brass one looks like a kit or scratch built one. I think the motor is a Zenith.

[Il Grifone]

11 hours ago, mossdp said:

The cast chassis is a Hornby Dublo or Wrenn R1. Wrenn used the same chassis for the N2 rather than the original Hornby Dublo one. I am not sure if the chassis was modified for this role or whether there was some sort of extension piece fitted to it as with at least one other Wrenn chassis. The brass one looks like a kit or scratch built one. I think the motor is a Zenith.

 

There is an extension piece which bolts to the rear of the R1 chassis block and fits into a slot in the bunker. The body was been modified for this and will no longer fit the Dublo N2 chassis. The rear pony has also been modified. All this results in two guard irons in front of the pony where they would not be much use on the real thing.

[MikeCW]

I have made little progress on modifying an A4 to the pre-war, fully valenced version.  One of the reasons is that the chassis on which the conversion is to be based has only con-rod and coupling rod, and no other valve gear.  I decided to try to squeeze full valve gear under the valence (for which I have made a template in plasticard before cutting ten thou. brass sheet). I reduced the projection of the valve gear mounting post by abour 0.5mm each side and bought a non-running "Silver King" from Hattons as a donor for the valve gear as well as for the front bogie which is missing from the chassis I'm using,

 

When the "Silver King" arrived, I put some voltage across the motor terminals and she sprang - well, lurched really - into sporadic life.  A thorough clean, (including armature slots and the brush holders), armature end-float adjustment, and lubrication, and off she went along the test track, pulling less than half an amp.  So, unwilling to "chop" a functioning locomotive, I put it aside and ordered another dead one from Hattons, this time a "Sir Nigel" .  Same story!  (This has happened at least four times.) So I've ended up with a part finished fully-valenced A4 project and two well-performing and complete Dublo A4s. 

 

So, a re-think!  I decided to put the full valence conversion on hold and refurbish and repaint the two new arrivals, and ordered some etched plates from Modelmaster for them. But I had, also on hold, a refresh job on a "Duchess of Montrose"  which I'd picked up for small money and which needed some attention. Time to get organised!  So the Duchess is now refurbished and renamed.  The two A4s are also complete, but for their plates, and smelling of fresh varnish.

 

I will post pictures of the A4s when their plates are fitted.  In the meantime, to show I've not been idle, here is "Duchess of Buccleuch".  The work involved:

 

• patch painting a couple of areas on the locomotive body
• sanding and respraying the smoke deflectors which had rust spots
• repainting the cab roof
• repainting the cylinders and applying lining (Dublo Surgeon methfix)
• re-painting the orange line on the footplate edge
• painting out the cab numbers and renumbering (Modelmaster waterslide)
• nameplate.  (Modelmaster Dublo Heritage)
• full repaint of the tender which had scratches where rust had taken hold
• tender lining (Dublo Surgeon methfix) and BR crest (PC/HRMS pressfix)
• locomotive and tender sprayed with polyurethane satin
• new handrail (1mm stainess steel wire) and split pins (Modelfixings 1.2mm)

 

There is some reflection from the carrier film of the Dublo-style power class number, which I've not noticed before; I need to seat properly the right-hand smoke deflector; and she still needs a front coupling hook.

 

Many posts ago I said that these conversions and refurbishments could get addictive.  Help line anyone?

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by MikeCW
Grammar

[sagaguy]

Very nice Mike.This was one of the first repaints that i produced a few years ago,a different take on Buccleuch,one of the few that i finshed in gloss.I prefer Fox lining transfers,original Dublo style i find a bit thick & not very good shapes.For orange lining,i use Fox orange lines & curves for the hanging valences.The second pic is of Buccleuch at the head of a train of Atholl LMS coaches 7 you can just see Sir William Stanier peeking in on the RH side.

 

                                  Ray.

 

                                      

 

[MikeCW]

Very nice work as always Ray. And the quality of running is always flawless.

 

I may have said in a previous post that I have two railway modelling interests: 00 "finescale" (Western Division of the LMS circa 1940); and Hornby Dublo.

 

For my "scale" kitbuilds and conversions I use mainly PC/HRMS Pressfix and Methfix transfers and, occasionally, Fox waterslide.

 

With Hornby Dublo I'm trying either to restore battered models to near-original condition, or produce plausible might-have-beens. So to replicate the "look" of Binns Road products* I'll use Dennis Williams' transfers, which are close to the dimensions of the over-scale varnish-fix transfers used by Meccano Ltd. (In fact, I think they are more expensive than the more accurate transfers available!) I suppose our choices depend on both personal preferences for application (waterslide/methfix/pressfix) and the end result we're trying to achieve,

 

Mike 

 

* I mean "replicate" without the careless transfer application and poor quality control seen on so-called "Friday" models from Binns Road.

 

[sagaguy]

Thanks Mike.I don`t think i`ve put this video on before.It`s my Modern Hornby 2HAL EMU converted with a Marklin skate in the trailer car.Always with a mind on the next project,i have a conversion kit & a Hornby Brighton Belle motor bogie for an SR 4COR emu,Waterloo to Portsmouth unit sometime known as "Nelsons"as one window in the driving cars is blanked out.

 

                                        Ray.

 

                       

 

[MikeCW]

Ray, I think this was the video you posted on October 30.  I liked it then and still do!

Cheers

Mike

[Il Grifone]

Some genuine Wrenn transfers are still available. I have some (bought ages ago), but they will need some bodging as the black line is not centred properly on the orange. I suppose I should have sent them back....

 

I tend to the idea that a repaint deserves to be done properly with 'scale' lining etc. , but have no hard and fast rule.

 

I've made the 'mistake' of deciding to extend my collection* of Trix American stock to include Tri-ang TC and Dublo CPR. Since the price of a genuine '1215' and caboose is decidedly not Grifone friendly, a modification from eBay is underway.

 

*Almost complete - I need an observation car. I won't bother with the DRG 01Pacific masquerading as an American Locomotive - she suffers from the same faults as Dublo's effort - looks nothing like the real thing and has an exorbitant price tag (and also suffers from zinc pest like all pre-war items made from this material). On the other hand, I do have a Revell kit for an 01in the 'to do' pile....

Edited November 19, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

On 10/10/2019 at 16:00, MikeCW said:

Well done with the switches. As you say, it's remarkable what's still out there. 

 

Yes it is remarkable.  Appearances can be deceptive though.  I am near the end of the process of finishing wiring my layout and, testing as I went along, I found two of the 22 maroon switches I was using didn't work.  They were unused and  boxed switches that looked as good as the day they left the factory - except that is for the insides.  They must have been kept in a damp environment, as the metal inside was so badly corroded it was unsurprising that they couldn't conduct any electricity.  They were beyond saving.  I replaced them with a couple of switches with broken footings from my rejects, which nevertheless worked flawlessly.  They will do until I get something more presentable to replace them with.

[Wolseley]

9 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Since the price of a genuine '1215' and caboose is decidedly not Grifone friendly, a modification from eBay is underway.

 

Which was what I did too to get mine:

 

[Il Grifone]

9 hours ago, Wolseley said:

 

Yes it is remarkable.  Appearances can be deceptive though.  I am near the end of the process of finishing wiring my layout and, testing as I went along, I found two of the 22 maroon switches I was using didn't work.  They were unused and  boxed switches that looked as good as the day they left the factory - except that is for the insides.  They must have been kept in a damp environment, as the metal inside was so badly corroded it was unsurprising that they couldn't conduct any electricity.  They were beyond saving.  I replaced them with a couple of switches with broken footings from my rejects, which nevertheless worked flawlessly.  They will do until I get something more presentable to replace them with.

 

That sounds like a case for some constructive rebuilding!

 

I went to use a Trix switch (I have a good supply) the other day, but it would only give intermittent contact in one direction. Investigation showed a cutting burr on one of the blades. The removal of this solved the contact problem, but it is now a trifle short. I'll use it in a less critical position....

Edited November 20, 2019 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

Trix switches can be a bit of a mixed blessing,before using they need to be restored.Very often,the lever is rusty,needs polishing with emery cloth with the lever held in a drill,the screw in the base holding the sprung lever needs to be removed & the countersunk hole cleaning with a csk bit as the case corrodes & causes an open circuit,the contact blades need cleaning & adjusting.They aren`t as positive as Dublo switches.Having said that i have used a few for the Trix colour light signals,you can see them painted yellow in the bottom LH corner of the photo.

 

         Whilst on the subject of these signals,They used 14v LES bulbs which run very hot & when i received them,the coloured sleeves were very brittle.I replaced them with 12v DC LES leds in red,green & yellow as in pic below..They run much cooler & are very effective.I also have some lighted semaphore signals with a white LED in the base.

 

                              Ray.

[Wolseley]

14 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I went to use a Trix switch (I have a good supply) the other day, but it would only give intermittent contact in one direction. Investigation showed a cutting burr on one of the blades. The removal of this solved the contact problem, but it is now a trifle short. I'll use it in a less critical position....

 

I had a couple of Dublo signals that would only work in one direction and not the other.  It turned out to be the same sort of problem.  There was a burr on one end of the metal bar that slides in the solenoid.  As with your switches, removal of the burr solved the problem.