Hornby dublo

[Il Grifone]

The colours look about right to me (I must make a note of the colours). Any difference is probably due to the Dublo finish being high gloss, rather incorrect for a building, but probably chosen for resistance to wear. The white edges should be quite thin, but it depends which prototype one wishes to follow, Dublo or British Railways.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

12 hours ago, Wolseley said:

 

I'm pretty certain that the white lines disappeared around 1956, give or take a year or so.  My guess is it was a cost cutting exercise, as they look better with them.

 

For my platforms, I used a rather pale grey, as I thought pure white looked a bit too stark.

Thanks, I got it right then. 

 

The Dublo lines are also not super bright white, or at least aren’t nowadays.

 

I think this is partially due to the line being painted over the cream colour.

 

Yours certainly look right to my eyes. 

[Pak75]

HI there

Maiden post - have been lurking for a while, absorbing much helpful info posted by members. Hope this is right topic.

I am in process of resurrecting HD layout that I acquired by a sort of karma.

When I was a boy in England, i had a large HD layout and spent many happy hours on it though with not much tech or financial support.  My teens saw other pursuits develop, girls, music, etc and the railway was packed away in the loft. Fast forward 20 years and I innocently asked after the railway - to my horror, little brother had flogged most of it in, guess what, pursuit of girls, music, etc. Fast forward another 20 years and mother-in-law was clearing her loft and she found a HD train set which she has given me. Now my son and I are actively building it up again, buying track, locos, etc,. Makes a change for him from computer games.... Competing against collectors for working models is difficult, plus here in Australia there is the tyranny of distance (exorbitant courier/postage fees from UK)  to bear. Some kind people here in Australia have helped, thank you.

Enjoying it immensely - planning new layout and will soon be attempting to renovate non-runners with help Dublo service providers in UK. There is more info around now than when I was a boy so making full use of that.

Duchess of Atholl

Sir Nigel Gresley x two (one in bits, pre war?)

Silver King in bits

2-8-0 (love it!)

0-6-2

 

Cheers

[Wolseley]

1 hour ago, Pak75 said:

Sir Nigel Gresley x two (one in bits, pre war?)

 

If they have the valances, they're pre-war and potentially very valuable.  Without the valances they are post-war, less valuable, but still worth having in your collection.

 

If you are collecting Dublo in Australia there aren't many local sources, although there are a couple of eBay vendors located in Australia who regularly sell Dublo and who are well worth keeping an eye on.  There used to be Train Traders at Pymble (I assume not far from where you are located) but they closed down three or four years ago.  Sourcing items from the UK is still an option, but you have to be wary of the postage costs, especially on eBay.  I have purchased quite a few Dublo items from JW Model Railways in the UK and his postal charges are fairly reasonable.  There are others as well, just watch the cost of the postage.....

 

Jim

[cypherman]

Hi Pak,

In my humble opinion there are 2 Dublo engines that are a must for any collection. The 2-6-4 tank and the Castle. Which castle depends on whether you are going for a 3 rail or 2 rail set up.

[Il Grifone]

Welcome to RMweb! 

 

That's the sort of things little brothers do!

Mine swopped my HD track for some Trix track in poor condition. We tried my 4MT tank on it. For some reason she staggered around about half a curve and stopped. It was many years later and a full service and new magnet before she went again!  (Fine now!)

 

As already stated (beat me to it - I had to take the dogs for morning walkies!), pre-war Gresleys have valences and the number 4498 (and potentially zinc pest). The chassis has only coupling and connecting rods (no valve gear) and a horseshoe magnet. The tender should have the pre-war coupling of course, but could have been replaced.

 

Thanks to brex(sh)it, I find myself in a similar situation as regards postage. Before I could send almost anything from the UK to Italy for the cost of carriage (about £21 for a large parcel); now it's subject to customs duty and VAT!

 

The platform white lines were often white wash so subject to wear. I gather it was reapplied about once a month, but, not being a popular job, it was sometimes a bit sloppy....

 

As regards Dublo Castles, the Daleks say, "You will have all four or will be exterminated!"

Edited August 30, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

44 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

As regards Dublo Castles, the Daleks say, "You will have all four or will be exterminated!"

 

I think I would run the risk of being exterminated if I paid the price that is generally asked for a Ludlow Castle.  Yes, I do have a Ringfield powered Castle, but it's a repainted two rail version that I converted to three rail (and, for those who think you should leave collectable items in their original state, I had to repaint it - it was badly playworn and the cab roof was bent):

 

 

There are a few Dublo items in my collection that have been modified and/or repainted.  As well as a repaint, I gave this 0-6-2T a new smokebox door:

 

[Colin]

There's something about the Dublo Castle - I much prefer it to Hornby's more recent model, despite the latter's wealth of fine detail. The HD loco just seems to have more "presence" and to me, looks superb running at a medium speed.

[sagaguy]

And for someting a bit different,first train in the station under the wires.They are steadily advancing around the layout.

 

                           RAY.

[Wolseley]

44 minutes ago, Colin said:

There's something about the Dublo Castle - I much prefer it to Hornby's more recent model, despite the latter's wealth of fine detail. The HD loco just seems to have more "presence" and to me, looks superb running at a medium speed.

 

Definitely.  And I would say the same of the Duchess and the 8F too.  There is something about them that modern, more detailed models don't somehow capture.

[Colin]

8 minutes ago, Wolseley said:

 

Definitely.  And I would say the same of the Duchess and the 8F too.  There is something about them that modern, more detailed models don't somehow capture.

Yes to the 8F and I would wholeheartedly agree about the Duchess if the driving wheels were just a bit bigger.

[Pak75]

Thanks guys for welcome.

i did visit Train Traders a couple of times until they shut up shop and went on line before disappearing altogether.

Thanks Wolseley for info, mine has no valances and must be post war as you say. Interestingly it has no suppressor - either an owner mod or was that was how they were sold...?. Do modern LCD and plasma tvs require a suppressor?

Haven’t noticed any interference...

Next purchase is 2–6-4 but most on EBay  look like they have been used in a Mission Impossible film!

Like the Castle, reminds me of Flying Scotsman.

That raises a qsn - if you restore/repaint a loco does it lose its value?

Cheers 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Pak75
Typos

[Nearholmer]

15 minutes ago, Pak75 said:

Do modern LCD and plasma tvs require a suppressor?

Haven’t noticed any interference...

Modern electronic gubbins is much less interference-prone, although wireless-connected devices may still glitch because white-noise from sparking whites-out their signal, they will simply reject a load of corrupted messages, but allowing lots of sparking will lead to rapid erosion of the brushes and commutator on the loco, so it’s worth having suppression for that reason alone.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

It's all down to aerial and signal to noise ratio.

 

Our aerial is rather dodgy and some channels are prone to drop out. (My excuse is that the programmes are c**p anyway!). A stronger signal would be more resistant to interference.

Digital signals are either on with sufficient signal strength or off without, unlike analogue, which slowly sink into the noise floor with decreasing strength, getting grainier (noisier) as they go.

 

HD suppressors vary: pre-war and immediate post war - none, later post-war (contemporary with the switch to AlNiCo magnets?) post war - a shunt 0.1µF waxed paper capacitor (usually in poor condition), from about the switch to BR livery (1954*?) an inductor** in series and a shunt 500/470 nF capacitor (then called a condenser (I've no idea what it was supposed to condense)).

 

* This would be contemporary with the start of ITV in Band III. The higher frequency would be more prone to interference.

Unfortunately the UK started with positive modulation (peak white - 100% modulation) which results in interference being highly visible white splashes! (Negative modulation makes the interference produce much less visible dark splashes or even get lost in the sync pulses).

 

** a.k.a choke. I've never been able to find the value and lack the equipment to measure one.

 

The Daleks would say price is no excuse. SWMBO would probably differ on this one.

I do have a 'Ludlow' chassis, but not the body. (It wouldn't be difficult to fake anyway ) (I rescued a 'Bristol Castle' body from a scrap bin (at £1 I couldn't leave it there even if it had a lot of the detail filed off (why?  ) at one of the last toy fairs, which will become 7004 'Eastnor Castle' on this chassis. The rest of the bits have cost rather more than a pound!)

 

Repainting is a debatable issue.

My practice is to leave well alone with rare and/or near mint  items (not that I have that many items that fit in those categories) and touch up or repaint the rougher examples.

My horseshoe magnet 'Atholl' (I do have some rare items!) came with 26mm scale wheels and went like a rocket. These improved the appearance a bit, but had too many spokes which spoilt the effect (and wouldn't run on Dublo track), so she now has proper Dublo wheels. (She still doesn't hang about!)

 

 

[Hroth]

13 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

a shunt 500/470 nF capacitor (then called a condenser (I've no idea what it was supposed to condense)).

 

It "condenses" electricity into one place, a storage device for small charges, allowing them to be released as a bigger charge at a later date.  Think of Stay-alive  devices in DCC fitted locos, or as smoothing devices in power supplies.  Old 405 televisions and wireless recievers of that ilk would have huge capacitors that stored lethal voltages for a considerable length of time after switching off.  The advice was to leave it for an hour or so for natural leakage to reduce the voltage.  Service personnel would have a stick with a conductor on the end to discharge capacitors to earth so they didn't have to wait...

 

The term itself dates back to the early years of electrical experimentation in the 18th century.  The Leyden Jar was the first form of condenser.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Hroth

[Pak75]

Thanks for good info! The A4 without suppressor also has a horseshoe magnet so that helps date it as well. Unfortunately magnet has lost most of its strength so I spent an unrewarding few hours adding small neodymium magnets after watching Ron Dodds YouTube clip. Maybe I had the poles wrong... Armature now on its way to UK for rewind in any case.

[Il Grifone]

The large capacitors survived well into the transistor era. The Philips G8 chassis had a particularly nasty one (2 x 600µF  charged to something of the order of 300 volts IIRC) with a jumbo sized wire-wound resistor across them. This latter would go open-circuit (stock fault ) and leave the wretched device fully charged. Being Phillips, it was a quality component which held its charge for ages (an hour didn't touch it) and needed extreme care when handling (repairable circuit panels - remember those?). It packed a tremendous 'belt'! No need to say how I know - more than once  .

The discharge device was often a insulated screwdriver with a satisfying 'bang'....

 

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/philips-g8/

 

For once the advertising blurb was accurate. Its picture was streets ahead of the opposition. The only real fault was slightly concave verticals  (only really noticeable on the test card - as can be seen in the link) and even this was sorted will the G9 chassis.

I lost faith in 'Which', when they recommended one of the competitors over this. It was stated to be easy to repair in the opinion of a 'professional'. He (or she) had obviously never tried. They were the proverbial PITA. Talking to customers I was informed that their cookers were rubbish as well and that their traffic light installations were always going wrong, unlike their competitor's (a clue - their competitor was Plessey).

 

EDIT.

If anyone is interested, the innards can be seen here (scroll down a bit). The offending resistor (mentioned in the text as having failed and bodged - the overload could well have caused the demise of the capacitor) is the black thing beneath the LH label in the 2nd photo. (They were very reliable. I can't recall ever changing one, but it was a long time ago - the sets were current back then!)

 

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=133925

Edited August 31, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

Back on topic, the 4MT came in 3 versions. Originally 80054 it featured the magnetic shunt to improve slow running. It introduced the coupling with the tabs and matt finish. The 2 rail version is 80053 and has a separate chimney which actually looks like the real thing. The last (rare) 3 rail examples have the separate chimney and bear the number 80059. Under the Wrenn regime several weird liveries appeared. The separate chimney is still available from 'Wrenngalore' on eBay (usual disclaimer).

 

It's the only Dublo steam loco with the correct size driving wheels*, which also feature the prototypical bevel to the tyre and the correct number of spokes (pity about the standards). Unlike their main competitor, Meccano Ltd. understood the function of Walschaerts valve gear. It is complete and both return cranks are set correctly. Unusually it is set in reverse gear - most makes settle for mid-gear).

 

* Somehow I missed the 8F, which also has the right size wheels.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

1 hour ago, Pak75 said:

Armature now on its way to UK for rewind in any case.

 

Before you send any more off to the UK, you might want to forward an email to David Neale in Bowral to find out if he can do it and, if so, how much he would charge.

 

I haven't given him any of my locos to repair or service, but I have four non-runners that I can't fix myself and intend to have him look at.  Before Covid reared its ugly head, we visited Bowral fairly frequently, as we have friends in Burradoo and family in Canberra and, what with Dublo being as heavy as it is, I was intending to deliver and pick them up myself.  It's a fairly low priority for me, so it can wait until the restrictions are lifted.

 

https://mkn-digital-train-repairs.com/other-work-undertaken/

[Wolseley]

3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Repainting is a debatable issue.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, if it's playworn AND it's not rare, I'll repaint it.  And, before anyone asks, the two on the left started off as Cities of London, not the rarer Liverpool.

 

 

I really need to fit the City of Edinburgh with larger name plates.......

 

Jim

[Wolseley]

Another repaint (not quite finished yet - I have to retouch a bit of the lining.....)

 

[Pak75]

Jim

Very well done and inspiring! I have seen the transfers now available so the possibilities are almost endless...

Tried David and he said he only does rewinds and not at present as his UK supplier is not working. Not sure what that means up but looks like UK is only place to go.

Thanks 

 

[Nearholmer]

Very fine enamelled wire? Is that a U.K.-made thing? Seems unlikely these days, but a cause for jubilation if it is.

[Il Grifone]

Dublo armature wire is 38 s.w.g.* (IIRC - s.w.g. anyway. Meccano Ltd. did not believe in metric - their idea of 4mm was 5/32"). I would imagine the only likely source for that is the U.K. Everywhere else** has had the sense to go metric 100%. A metric equivalent would undoubtedly work just as well however.

* Pre-war 40 s.w.g. (possibly early post war? - Stuck in Italy thanks to Covid-19***, I'm away from my bible' )

 

**The USA is an exception, but has its own wire gauge.

 

*** The 19th variation of Covid according to one of Trump's acolytes! 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Pak75]

Hi

Another qsn or two if folks don't mind...

One of A4s i bought needs RHS valve gear replacing. On examining wheels and coupling rods, every pin seems to be working its way out. They cannot be pressed back in. Should these pins take much force to push home?

On further reading,  there are two types of coupling rod pin, one small (early) and one large with grooves in it. I pulled out centre pin of coupling rod and it is the large type. However, as others won't push home, is it possible this locomotive should have small pins?

When was switch made by HD to larger pins?

I also noticed pin had a lot of oil and gunk on it - is it possible the locating holes are full of dirt?