Hornby dublo

[GoingUnderground]

The Tri-ang range was based on the bought in Rovex train set, but needed immediate improment. The Tri-ang track was based on and hence copied from the Rovex product. Apart from the grey base and steel rail section, it differed in nearly all details.

The original 1950/1951 Rovex track had a tongue at one end, and a slot at the other so could only be connected one way round - fine for the simple oval of track for the Rovex train set, but useless for anything more complicated, but that didn't matter too much as there were no points or a diamond crossing in the original Rovex 1950/51 track range.

 

Rovex had already recognised this connectivity problem. Alexander Vanetzian and Edward Katryniak, who designed the original Rovex track, had designed a new double ended tongued connector before Lines bought the Rovex Plastics company at the end of October 1951. (They never bought in the Rovex train set - Edit: The contract that Rovex had with Marks & Spencer to supply the train set forbade them from selling it to other customers in the UK. When Lines bought Rovex, M&S cancelled the contract with Rovex.)

 

Lines had great plans for their new model railways subsidiary company, and bought the moulds from Pyramid Toys in December 1951 to give Rovex a range of freight models. But they weren't happy with the Rovex track geometry, and the new double ended connector design wasn't flexible enough. Katryniak, now that Rovex was owned by Lines Bros, developed the track further into what was then known as "universal" track which first went on sale in May 1952.

 

The new universal straight track piece, R.93, was still 8 1/2 in long, the same length has the original Rovex straight because the new shorter 7 1/4 in straight, R.96, for the new geometry wasn't ready in time, it came later in 1952. The curved track R.93 dimensions remained unchanged at 13 1/2 in radius, still with 12 pieces to a circle.

 

Two different adaptor pieces, R.98 and R.99, to connect the new universal track to the old single ended track were also sold, presumably one had the single tongue at one end and the new universal track connector at the other end, whilst the other adaptor would have had the slot and new universal track connector. Points and the diamond crossing came in 1953, along with a half curved rail and a "quarter" straight. 2nd radius curves came in 1954.

 

The universal track became known as Standard track in 1958 when the cheaper to produce open base Series 3 was launched in reply to Trix's introduction of lower priced fibre based track in 1957.

 

The ownership of Rovex had passed from Vanetzian to Lines Bros. and some of the senior management had inevitably changed, although it was still based in Richmond, Surrey and remained there until the Margate factory opened in 1954. Did that 1951 change of ownership make Triang Standard track a copy of Rovex track, or just the normal commercial development of a product by the Rovex company?

 

I leave you all to decide for yourselves.

Edited August 6, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[Il Grifone]

Exactly what I was trying to say! Shall we say the Tri-ang track evolved from the Rovex track and leave it at that*. The first original Tri-ang track was the series III which I can recall being shown a sample by the owner of my favourite toy shop (which stocked both Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang trains and the other products of both companies - Meccano, Dinky Toys. Minic etc plus Master Models and Britains Lilliput and other goodies - I spent a lot of pocket money there!). I thought it very realistic, but I was only about ten at the time. As a Dublo owner, it wasn't any use to me, but the price (7d a length IIRC) was interesting.

 

I have a large box of the stuff from a boot sale with a large asortment of Rovex and Tri-ang standard track. Most/all of it is acetate, so it has all warped, but I keep it for historical reasons (or until SWMBO finds it...). There's also a box of Trix track!

Edited August 15, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

 

I remember at the time thinking that the track looked a bit unrealistic and I wasn't greatly enamoured of it, but then, my childhood memories of Hornby Dublo are of a time when HD two rail had just been introduced and the promotion of the new track at the expense of the old probably tainted my view of it back then.

 

I think that the fact that it looks so old fashioned (it looks like a product of the 1930s which, of course, it is) is part of its appeal today, and the reason that there is still so much of it in use, when a lot of its competitors track (and, let it be said, HD two rail track) has faded into obscurity.  There is something about it that harks back to a more comfortable era.  It also has the benefit of being robust and has stood the test of time: 60+ years old and still working.  There's also something very satisfying about the sound of tinplate stock running on metal - especially if you leave the odd gap of 1mm or less here and there.

 

 

 

The trouble with the 2 Rail track was using polystyrene for the sleepers*, rather than the polythene favoured by Peco Streamline and Formoway (Gem too?). The coarser Tri-ang track was sufficiently robust to get away with it, but the delicacy of the Dublo track made it very fragile. It is  often the fate of pioneers to make a mistake in design, which is then corrected and cashed in on by the competition. The D. H. Comet is probably the prime example. Had they not caved in to political pressure and rushed into production, things might have turned out differently.

 

* That and the sharp radii!

Edited August 7, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hornby Dublo would have been silly to replace their 3rd rail with stud contact as the pick-ups would all need replacing. I bought some Marklin to use and the Dublo shoes rattle over the studs like walking along a railed fence dragging a lolly stick along it. I ended up inverting the stud on the top to make a third rail. Due to chemical blackening it is no where near as conspicuous as Dublo's rail.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have quite  a few Dublo locos, most have been repainted but do have an original although not a Ludlow, 80059 or un-repainted 48094. Here are all 34 BR A4's (60034 is Wrenn), some of the Duchess/City's, repainted 8F's, repainted 2-6-4's, some repainted Co-Bo's. I do have some of all the other locos too.  Most of my Tri-ang ones are genuine 3-rail as I have replaced the insulated wheels with non insulated ones. A few Bachmann and Tri-ang bodies have been fitted to Dublo chassis's in all too numerous to mention along with Dublo modifications. Here are some examples.

 

I have since sold the odd loco or two as I am slimming my collection due to being more involved with Tri-ang TT these days.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

I have quite  a few Dublo locos, most have been repainted but do have an original although not a Ludlow, 80059 or un-repainted 48094. Here are all 34 BR A4's (60034 is Wrenn), some of the Duchess/City's, repainted 8F's, repainted 2-6-4's, some repainted Co-Bo's. I do have some of all the other locos too.  Most of my Tri-ang ones are genuine 3-rail as I have replaced the insulated wheels with non insulated ones. A few Bachmann and Tri-ang bodies have been fitted to Dublo chassis's in all too numerous to mention along with Dublo modifications. Here are some examples.

 

I have since sold the odd loco or two as I am slimming my collection due to being more involved with Tri-ang TT these days.

 

Garry

I've admired your work from the other side of the world Garry, including looking at some of your Youtube videos. (I must say that your output puts my own productivity to shame.) That said, I've been sufficiently motivated to take a break from my struggles with a "finescale" 4mm layout to unbox and power up some items from my own modest Hornby Dublo 3 rail collection, added to over many years from the circle of track, Duchess of Montrose, and two suburban coaches which arrived at Christmas 1956 - at some financial sacrifice to my late parents I suspect.  I've recently been fortunate to acquire some early post-war Dublo items, in used but sound, operating condition, from a local collector/operator who is downsizing a lifetime's accumulation. From another source I've just picked up a tired (no pun) two rail Class 20 Bo Bo, one of Binns Road's lesser efforts.  I've got a Marklin pick up skate on order and will attempt my first conversion to 3 rail.  It will likely involve "de-insulating" some of the wheels by pressing out the plastic bushes and replacing them with home-brewed, press-fit, brass ones.  I'll post a picture if all goes well.

 

A couple of questions if I may Garry.  The Black 5 in your photo looks a nicely balanced engine, the sort that Meccano might have produced. I assume the body is Triang/Hornby "Railroad".  Is the valve gear 8F? And what chassis did you use?  (I know you have used "Castle" chasss for some of your other 4-6-0 conversions.

 

Also, your photos are often taken with the locomotives parked on pristine boxes.  I assume these are replicas?  Tony Cooper?

 

Thanks for your continuing, interesting, and motivating posts. 

[Golden Fleece 30]

I've admired your work from the other side of the world Garry, including looking at some of your Youtube videos. (I must say that your output puts my own productivity to shame.) That said, I've been sufficiently motivated to take a break from my struggles with a "finescale" 4mm layout to unbox and power up some items from my own modest Hornby Dublo 3 rail collection, added to over many years from the circle of track, Duchess of Montrose, and two suburban coaches which arrived at Christmas 1956 - at some financial sacrifice to my late parents I suspect. I've recently been fortunate to acquire some early post-war Dublo items, in used but sound, operating condition, from a local collector/operator who is downsizing a lifetime's accumulation. From another source I've just picked up a tired (no pun) two rail Class 20 Bo Bo, one of Binns Road's lesser efforts. I've got a Marklin pick up skate on order and will attempt my first conversion to 3 rail. It will likely involve "de-insulating" some of the wheels by pressing out the plastic bushes and replacing them with home-brewed, press-fit, brass ones. I'll post a picture if all goes well.

 

A couple of questions if I may Garry. The Black 5 in your photo looks a nicely balanced engine, the sort that Meccano might have produced. I assume the body is Triang/Hornby "Railroad". Is the valve gear 8F? And what chassis did you use? (I know you have used "Castle" chasss for some of your other 4-6-0 conversions.

 

Also, your photos are often taken with the locomotives parked on pristine boxes. I assume these are replicas? Tony Cooper?

 

Thanks for your continuing, interesting, and motivating posts.

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your comments and good luck with the Dublo. There are not that many issues using Dublo as they are strong robust models. Your method of de insulating the 2 rail wheels is very good one for diesels, more so if making your own bushes. I have done this as well as using the ones Dennis Williams supplies (and uses in his R1 convertions). A lot of Dublo steam locos have had a small drill put through the bush and a brass track pin forced in to short out the wheel to axle. I did this as Dublo wheels are not often available like the Tri-ang ones are. Sometimes it was just a case of drilling and tapping the chassis to screw a pick up wire to.

 

The boxes are all my own, none are Tony Coopers. I buy them at toy fairs where they are sold in plain blue, red and green. I then use a white paint pen to put the lines on and make my own labels. If you look at the Neverwazza coaches I have on Ebay at the moment they are all with my own repro boxes with my name on. These I had done in red and blue but plain ends so separate labels were made to fit on.

 

The use of the Marklin skate is a good idea as fitting the Dublo style plungers is not always easy, a few times I have had to remove and redo as the insulating paper would tear and short and that was on tenders I never tried to do aBo-Bo.

 

The black 5 on here was the original tender drive one from the 70's before the Railroad models were ever thought of. Most other bodies, including Bachmann, were bought just as bodies as I didnot want their chassis's. The chassis is as you say a 1/2" Castle one but the valve gear is the Duchess one which I thought was the best they ever made. The Jamieson one does have a Duchess chassis used but with a little work the 1/2" motor has been fitted. Those worked so nicely I did some more including the 2-6-4 to fit a Crab I think but these were never completed body wise as I turned to my TT. Fitting this motor to the vertical chassis ones opened up a lot more possibilities like another I did was putting one in an A4 chassis to use on a Jamieson B1.

 

I also started using the R1 chassis as a basis for a B1 and V2 as the unequal spacing was more realistic. Then also using this chassis but plugging the old axle holes, not the centre ones, and redrilled to different centres to use on locos like the Bachmann J39 bodies.

 

Garry

Edited August 16, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the Crab chassis, a 2-6-4 block with a 1/2" motor fitted and a Black 5 with the Duchess chassis fitted with the 1/2" motor. Also a Jamieson B1 with the A4 chassis modified to take the 1/2" motor although nt fitted when the photo was taken.  Doing these mods allowed the valve gear to be used without modifying their respective fitting place as was the case using a Castle chassis.

 

Garry

Edited August 17, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is an R1 chassis modified to use under a Bristol models rebuilt Royal Scot.

 

 

A video of the Crab chassis.

 

 

Garry

[Prometheus]

I've also repainted and improved an number of Dublo two-rail locos, and really enjoyed doing it too. I'm currently dealing with the Co-Co ersatz Deltic. It was bought as an untidy non-runner and now runs but it is extremely noisy. Nothing I've done seems to lessen the racket either.

 

Tony

[sagaguy]

I've also repainted and improved an number of Dublo two-rail locos, and really enjoyed doing it too. I'm currently dealing with the Co-Co ersatz Deltic. It was bought as an untidy non-runner and now runs but it is extremely noisy. Nothing I've done seems to lessen the racket either.

 

Tony

Several things spring to mind,having a ring field motor,check the bottom armature bearing,this being a ball race.Maybe too much endplay on the layshaft.Slacken the nut on the adjustable bearing on the layshaft & with the motor running,screw the bearing in & out to get the correct end float.

 

Ray

Edited August 17, 2018 by sagaguy

[Prometheus]

Adjusting the layshaft is my next port of call Ray, that and ensuring again that the mitre gears are correctly meshed.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Tony

[NCB]

I have quite  a few Dublo locos, most have been repainted but do have an original although not a Ludlow, 80059 or un-repainted 48094. Here are all 34 BR A4's (60034 is Wrenn), some of the Duchess/City's, repainted 8F's, repainted 2-6-4's, some repainted Co-Bo's. I do have some of all the other locos too.  Most of my Tri-ang ones are genuine 3-rail as I have replaced the insulated wheels with non insulated ones. A few Bachmann and Tri-ang bodies have been fitted to Dublo chassis's in all too numerous to mention along with Dublo modifications. Here are some examples.

 

I have since sold the odd loco or two as I am slimming my collection due to being more involved with Tri-ang TT these days.

 

Garry

 

What sort of painting set-up do you use, Gary? Looks like a proper spray job to me. At the moment I'm restricted to using cans, don't really have the space for anything more sophisticated.

 

Nigel

[Golden Fleece 30]

Its all done with cans Nigel. Hycote primer, Hycote Brooklands Green for Dublo replicas (Phoenix BR green for TT) and Railmatch satin finish. Lining is Methsfix / varnish fix usually and number and crests Fox. I did a series on YouTube starting with Hornby Dublo A4 repainting part 1, then 2 etc. One of the series covered methsfix transfer application. Another video explained how I repainted an Exley coach.

 

I cannot use an airbrush no matter how I try so cans are the only option.

 

Garry

Edited August 17, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

Like Garry,i use spraycans,i can use an airbrush but i normally get more paint over me than the job coupled with all that cleaning.This loco was sprayed using Molotow Future Green spray acrylic,Humbrol gloss black enamel finished with Railmatch aerosol satin varnish.

 

                   

 

I also repaint locos using Halfords spray paints.

 

                   

 

 

                    Ray.

[Il Grifone]

The Castle seen here (with the black tender - the other is original Dublo)  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28222-dublo-layout/?hl=%20dublo%20%20layout post #6  was repainted about 30 years ago by brush and lined with 'Pressfix'. Really she is due a refresh to match her new green tender, but there are more pressing jobs....

 

I've just done an N2 in post-war LNER black and will try to post a picture....

 

A couple of Trackmaster/Kirdon* N2s are in the pipeline. The Trackmaster paint (or rather what was left of it - just sufficient to read 'BR    61' - was very resistant to paint strippers. It said 'Nitromors' on the tin, but it's not the stuff I remember. Brake fluid seemed not to touch it and caustic soda didn't seem to have much effect either.

 

* I'm pretty sure one is Trackmaster from the remains of the finish. The other came paint free, so I think it's one of the castings sold by Kirdon. These were possibly Tri-ang clearance but there is no sign of any Tri-ang transfers under the cab roof. I suppose I should look for a Tri-ang one to complete the trio, but  I have so many N2s already. SWMBO says. "Too many", but that doesn't make sense! 

 

The Trackmaster casting is about 4mm longer than than the Dublo (and Gaiety) version and is the correct length. It's a pity that none of them thought to do a condensing version. There is the Hornby model (of Airfix origins I believe), but that is plastic....

Edited August 18, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Prometheus]

I find Dublo and Wrenn locos so resistant to proprietary paint strippers (particularly Nitromors these days) that I only now use caustic soda. It’s shocking stuff - you can almost hear the castings screaming in pain - but it really does the job beautifully.

 

Tony

[sagaguy]

I use Homebase own brand paint stripper.

 

                     Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I only use Caustic Soda, apart from the standard hazards its only issue is it will not remove acrylic. Thankfully I don't use acrylic, I don't like them, but sometimes an item comes into my possession done with them.

 

Caustic works well on plastic bodies too as long as it is not too hot to warp them.

 

Be very careful with ally though as it can eat through it very quickly and as with anything a thorough good wash is required afterwards.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

The Castle seen here (with the black tender - the other is original Dublo)  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28222-dublo-layout/?hl=%20dublo%20%20layout post #6  was repainted about 30 years ago by brush and lined with 'Pressfix'. Really she is due a refresh to match her new green tender, but there are more pressing jobs....

 

I've just done an N2 in post-war LNER black and will try to post a picture....

 

A couple of Trackmaster/Kirdon* N2s are in the pipeline. The Trackmaster paint (or rather what was left of it - just sufficient to read 'BR    61' - was very resistant to paint strippers. It said 'Nitromors' on the tin, but it's not the stuff I remember. Brake fluid seemed not to touch it and caustic soda didn't seem to have much effect either.

 

* I'm pretty sure one is Trackmaster from the remains of the finish. The other came paint free, so I think it's one of the castings sold by Kirdon. These were possibly Tri-ang clearance but there is no sign of any Tri-ang transfers under the cab roof. I suppose I should look for a Tri-ang one to complete the trio, but  I have so many N2s already. SWMBO says. "Too many", but that doesn't make sense! 

 

The Trackmaster casting is about 4mm longer than than the Dublo (and Gaiety) version and is the correct length. It's a pity that none of them thought to do a condensing version. There is the Hornby model (of Airfix origins I believe), but that is plastic....

Certainly a nice collection in the old photos with a mix of everything, which is how it was and should be.  In those days it was only the wheels that caused restrictions for me, couplings I could cope with.

 

Garry

[Wolseley]

On the subject of paint, I usually brush paint with Humbrol authentic rail colour acrylics (not because of any preference for this paint - it's just that it's the only paint I can get locally in British railway colours).  Then I spray the completed model with a can of Tamiya semi-gloss clear (or sometimes matt or gloss, depending on what I'm painting) - I use this, firstly as it is acrylic, and I have used acrylic for the colour coat and, secondly, as, once again, it is the easiest of its type to find here.

 

Here are a few models I have repainted:

 

 

 

[sagaguy]

I normally use Halfords automotive acrylics these days with Humbrol gloss black enamel for smokebox & other Black areas but this precludes using acrylic varnish,I think i`ll have to move on to Humbrol acrylic no.85.My SR version pictured here was sprayed with Molotow future green.

 

 

Ray

[Colin_McLeod]

The higher interest rates are a myth. The mortgage rate was higher at first sight (10-15%), but that was only about half the inflation rate, whereas today they are around twice inflation, so actually much higher. .

You have lost me there!

[Il Grifone]

You have lost me there!

 

Basically one borrowed at 10 to 15%, but inflation was running 20 to 25%  so the money being paid back was worth less than that borrowed (assuming one's salary increased in line with inflation which mine did. (over the period 1972 - 1976 my salary approximately doubled, but my mortgage only increased from £34 a month to £40. Today you'd be lucky to find a mortgage under the alleged inflation figure of 2 to 2.5% and would need to find a lot more than I did even allowing for inflation.

 

On another point, alcohol (meths or IPA) is death to acrylic finishes. (I hesitate to suggest antifreeze, as it's nasty stuff.)

[Colin_McLeod]

Even if the mortgage rate was 0.0000% so long as inflation exists then the money paid back is worth less than the money borrowed. You are comparing two different things.