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Thanks, the newer loco runs very well, I did buy it to use the chassis for a narrow gauge loco but because it does run better and the finish is good I kept it as it is. Actually I suppose the older one isn't that bad providing it doesn't get given too much throttle....

Edited by railroadbill
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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

Well all my H/D engines are of the 2 rail variety. Including 3 that were once 3 rail. I now after an extensive buying spree. Just do not tell my wife.....lol. have at least 2 of every H/D locomotive made.(IE This means I have 2 A4's and not 2 of every version of A4 H/D have made etc). Except the EMU and I do not have any of them..... :(. I have been buying mainly the diesels recently and  have picked up 1 Deltic(Crepello), 2 Co-Co's and 2 Co-Bo's. Something I once said I would never buy as I am not into diesels. I am looking for the Deltic St Paddy for 2 rail. So I will probably have to buy a 2 rail chassis and get a spare body because as far as I know they never made a 2 rail version of St Paddy.

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21 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Well all my H/D engines are of the 2 rail variety. Including 3 that were once 3 rail. I now after an extensive buying spree. Just do not tell my wife.....lol. have at least 2 of every H/D locomotive made.(IE This means I have 2 A4's and not 2 of every version of A4 H/D have made etc). Except the EMU and I do not have any of them..... :(. I have been buying mainly the diesels recently and  have picked up 1 Deltic(Crepello), 2 Co-Co's and 2 Co-Bo's. Something I once said I would never buy as I am not into diesels. I am looking for the Deltic St Paddy for 2 rail. So I will probably have to buy a 2 rail chassis and get a spare body because as far as I know they never made a 2 rail version of St Paddy.

Similarly I have recently purchased a Bo-Bo (actually a birthday present), a Co-Bo, Co-Co and 08 (both converted to 3 rail). My brother, who started the layout in the 1950s is not impressed as he is a died-in-the wool steam man. 

 

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22 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Well all my H/D engines are of the 2 rail variety. Including 3 that were once 3 rail. I now after an extensive buying spree. Just do not tell my wife.....lol. have at least 2 of every H/D locomotive made.(IE This means I have 2 A4's and not 2 of every version of A4 H/D have made etc). Except the EMU and I do not have any of them..... :(. I have been buying mainly the diesels recently and  have picked up 1 Deltic(Crepello), 2 Co-Co's and 2 Co-Bo's. Something I once said I would never buy as I am not into diesels. I am looking for the Deltic St Paddy for 2 rail. So I will probably have to buy a 2 rail chassis and get a spare body because as far as I know they never made a 2 rail version of St Paddy.

HD policy seems to have been to always have different running numbers/names for 2R & 3R versions. The EMU motor coach and the AL1 electric (3R by special factory order only though) appear to be the sole exceptions?

 

David

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  • 3 weeks later...

Latest addition to the fleet after arriving after being ordered nearly two and a half years ago.A Classic Collections model.

 

                                 Ray.

20210323_102602.jpg

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7 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Latest addition to the fleet after arriving after being ordered nearly two and a half years ago.A Classic Collections model.

 

                                 Ray.

20210323_102602.jpg

 

Very nice been reading up about them, milled chassis 1/2 motors, 4MT valve gear.

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  • 5 weeks later...

My Hornby Channel Packet,3 railed and running superbly.

 

                                Ray.

 

               

 

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Hornby Sir William Stanier 3 railed at last, pretty easy again,the only adjustment was the back to back on the front bogie.Really good looking models.

 

                          Ray.

 

 

                     

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

When I was a tot my elder brother had the Hornby Dublo, mainly Atholl and the 0-6-2T in LMS livery. After he started other interests I took it over, but had a battle getting funds to expand it. Eventually I had a Castle, but that was it. I'd always fancied the 2-6-4T, and also liked the 0-6-2T in BR livery, but to no avail.

 

A month or so ago I thought what the hell, stop thinking about them and do something. A scout round Ebay, and I had one of each, in what looks to me in very clean condition and what I think were reasonable prices. Yipee! Pics:

 

m1020535.jpg.ccba3445c1b239e27e46b0f2f98509eb.jpg

 

m1020534.jpg.3bbf315052dc5f7da4a5065326f00cd1.jpg

 

Very satisfied; they have a presence about them. The 2-6-4T runs well, the 0-6-2T not bad but sticks a bit; I think a drop of oil should help. The couplings on the 2-6-4T look a little battered.

 

I also bought 4 turnouts, again in good condition, to supplement the 5 I already had (should have been 6, but I lent a pair to somebody for an exhibition and only 1 came back).

 

I don't know where all this is leading. Could be dangerous :)

 

Nigel

 

Edited by NCB
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Sounds familiar, but the other way around! I got the 2-6-4T at Christmas 1955 and the 0-6-2T the following year. It took a long time to get anything else. I still have the 2-6-4T, and it's still a good runner.

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We bought a “non runner” 3 rail 2-6-4 tank loco for parts to fix up a 2-rail version....

 

We got the 3-rail loco running...

 

Then we needed some track to run it on....

 

The end result?

 

A large collection of 3-rail, track, locos, rolling stock, and accessories, including the turntable!

 

So, yes, it can be a dangerous thing. A little can lead to a lot! ;) :D

 

 

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It sure is an enjoyable dangerous thing especially when you have most of the Dublo range and you have or develop the skills and knowledge to convert other manufacturers models to run on 3 rail.Most other models can be converted like modern Hornby as in the pics below.

 

                               Ray.

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20210502_083311.jpg.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I've seen claims by folks who run Maerklin 3 rail that 3 rail runs better than 2 rail because the pickup is better and the track needs far less cleaning. They say the reasons for the better running is that the track pickup has the benefit of using both running rails for the "common return", doubling the number pf points of contact between loco and track, whilst the rubbing action of the pickup skate sliding along the top of the, in Maerklin's case, studs, keeps the studs and the skate itself clean. Of course, Maerklin does use AC and at a higher voltage than traditional 12 volt DC, both factors that might help keep the rails cleaner and make it easier for the current to pass between track and wheel.

 

So I was wondering whether any of you Dublo enthusiasts agreed, especially those of you who have experience of 2 and 3 rail running.

Edited by GoingUnderground
To correct typos
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I don`t really know,i use Marklin skates because they can be used in a lot of conversions,not always though because of clearance problems,then a different method has to be used.They certainly work well on Dublo 3 rail track although it`s preferable to put a small bend in the skate so that the tips contact the centre rail as they can stall on diamond crossings an some points if left flat.The first pic is of the PCB mount on my Hornby Channel Packet and the second on my Hornby Ivatt Coronation.

 

                         Ray.

20210416_232529.jpg

20210430_170755.jpg.jpg

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42 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

 3 rail runs better than 2 rail because the pickup is better and the track needs far less cleaning.

Indeed 3-rail runs better than 2-rail and is less prone to dirty track. I have a 2-rail/3-rail combined track in the garden. Some of my locomotives (like MTH and ACE) can be switched for 2-rail or 3-rail and when I switch to 3-rail they run much better. 

 

Regards

Fred

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1 hour ago, sagaguy said:

I don`t really know,i use Marklin skates because they can be used in a lot of conversions,not always though because of clearance problems,then a different method has to be used.They certainly work well on Dublo 3 rail track although it`s preferable to put a small bend in the skate so that the tips contact the centre rail as they can stall on diamond crossings an some points if left flat.The first pic is of the PCB mount on my Hornby Channel Packet and the second on my Hornby Ivatt Coronation.

 

                         Ray.

 

 

I seem to remember that my cousin's HD 3 rail locos had 2 lightly sprung spoon shaped pickup shoes on either end of the centre rail pickup assembly, but that was over 60 years ago that I last saw them. I would imagine that "spoons" are more forgiving of slightly raised insulated components such as check rails on diamond crossings than skates, where the raised item could lift the entire skate clear of the rail or studs. So bending the skate slightly would make sense when used on HD 3 rail as that would simulate the two "spoons" design used by HD. But a skate is better than "spoons" over Maerklin's studs as it should remain parallel to the tops of the studs whereas "spoons" would drop into the gaps between the studs, and I imagine, make some noise as they clatter over the studs.


I would imagine that Maerklin's skate design took into account the fact that when they changed over to stud contact the skate would also need to work well for existing Maerklinists' layouts which used a rail as the centre contact. So I am sure that a skate would work well on HD track, apart from the issues that you mention. After all, the HD 3 rail track bears a remarkable resemblance to Maerklin 1930s track.

 

But I'm not trying to open a debate over the merits or otherwise of rail over studs or "spoons" over skates, nor the origins of HD 3 rail track design.

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Posted (edited)

The more pickup points the better.

 

In 00 gauge there are/were three main 3 rail manufacturers  Märklin, Trix and Hornby Dublo. (Trix is sort of double two rail but uses sprung shoes for pickup. These are very reliable -  a Trix loco stalling is mainly due the eccentricities of the reverser.) Around 1955 Märklin switched to stud contact.*

 

In the case of Dublo there are two stall points. The dead closure rails of the points and the large chunk of plastic in the diamond crossings (often warped these days which does not help matters).

 

*It was a popular system for 'scale' layouts during the switch to two rail. IIRC the recommended practice was 1/16" below rail level (or was it above the sleepers ? Not that it would make much difference (none at all with HD rail) on plain track rising to 1/16" above on pointwork, so that the skate would clear the running rails.

 

It's a fair bet that Märklin track influenced the HD design. There was a fair bit of cooperation between the companies prior to WWII and it would explain the odd choice of yellow for the ballast colour. (They presumably copied it from the Bing track, but why Bing chose yellow I have no idea.) Apart from the height ( and gauge - 16mm) the two will join perfectly.

Early Dublo pickups do indeed have two spring loaded spoons. These always work well, whereas the later studs have been known to catch in rail joints as they have less tolerance of inequalities in level

Edited by Il Grifone
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8 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The more pickup points the better.

 

In 00 gauge there are/were three main 3 rail manufacturers  Märklin, Trix and Hornby Dublo. (Trix is sort of double two rail but uses sprung shoes for pickup. These are very reliable -  a Trix loco stalling is mainly due the eccentricities of the reverser.) Around 1955 Märklin switched to stud contact.

I know that many people see the Trix centre rail and automatically see Trix and Dublo as being equivalent 3 rail systems, but Trix was never sold as a simple 3 rail system, and arguably it is an oversimplification to treat it  as a 3 rail system equivalent to  Dublo, and Maerklin. It could be used a true 3 rail, or as true 2 rail or in its Twin mode with either There were significant difference between Trix Twin/Trix Express and Dublo track and locos.

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How does modern commercial rolling stock run on HD 3-rail track? Wondering about coaches in particular?

 

Also, any tips for converting modern couplings to the HD type?

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8 hours ago, NCB said:

How does modern commercial rolling stock run on HD 3-rail track? Wondering about coaches in particular?

 

Also, any tips for converting modern couplings to the HD type?

Pretty well,i use modern Hornby coach wheels on my Trix plastic coaches but you have to increase the B to B on them to smoothly run through points.I get over the coupling problem by making tension lock adaptor plates and attaching them to Dublo coach bogies.Not ideal but it works and you can put the original coupling back if needs be.

 

                                Ray.

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20210502_083311.jpg.jpg

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9 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

I know that many people see the Trix centre rail and automatically see Trix and Dublo as being equivalent 3 rail systems, but Trix was never sold as a simple 3 rail system, and arguably it is an oversimplification to treat it  as a 3 rail system equivalent to  Dublo, and Maerklin. It could be used a true 3 rail, or as true 2 rail or in its Twin mode with either There were significant difference between Trix Twin/Trix Express and Dublo track and locos.

 

I realise that Trix is not a true 3 rail system as all the rails are insulated. However the shoe system does make it's pickup reliable. The wheels are coarse enough to enable the point blades to be use as the centre rail. My test track uses an oval of Trix fibre track, which enables me to run 2 or 3 rail (or Trix) locomotives as desired.

The main differences between Trix and Dublo are the ability of the former to run on AC supplies* and the wheel standards.

* It saves a rectifier at the cost of complex, unreliable and expensive sequence reversers.

 

8 hours ago, NCB said:

How does modern commercial rolling stock run on HD 3-rail track? Wondering about coaches in particular?

 

Also, any tips for converting modern couplings to the HD type?

 

The latest (post circa 2000) stock has fine wheels (to BRMSB or NMRA standards) and may have problems with Dublo pointwork*. It also needs to be able to traverse 1st radius curves (Dublo 'Large radius' = 2nd radius). Previous to that almost all stock had wheels to Dublo standards.**

Peco still sell their coupling (though they are quite expensive) which can be fitted in place of the modern effort. It will be necessary to remove any NEM pockets however. They will probably need to mounted on the bogies, because of the sharp radii.

 

* Due to the geometry the curve starts about 1/2" in from the end which results in the gauge widening to about 18mm at the tips of the point blades. BRMSB wheels will drop between the rails and derail at this point. (This does not apply to pre-war points (easy to spot, but hard to find (watch out for zinc pest) - they have sleepers like the plain track and brass rail), which have longer blades.

 

** B2B 14.2mm, wheel thickness 3.2mm, flange depth about 1.2mm

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