Hornby dublo

[cypherman]

You like model planes too?

Hi,

Yes I collect Diecast metal planes as well. I have about 300 either out on display or boxed up in storage.

[sagaguy]

The two latest purchases,the EMU motor coach was what i think was a bargain at £75 even though it needs a new armature & bottom bearing,no rust or any damage at all,if you look closely,the previous owner made a right mess of the armature.The Wrenn scot is a delight.as well.

 

 

                                     

 

 

 

                           Ray.

 

                                 

 

[MikeCW]

On a slightly different tack, I thought it might be useful if I shared a recent experience when I was reconditioning a couple of 3 rail Hornby Dublo locomotives.  I've  cobbled together a test bed (as illustrated) using some meters which I had intended to use on the control panel of my analogue "scale" model railway, but decided not to use. The rig consists of a 0-20 DC voltmeter and 2 ammeters; 0-1amp and 0-5amps. Unfortunately they are not "centre off" so I needed DPDT switches to give readings in both forward or reverse. The track is 4 feet of Peco Code 100 with a third rail added via copperclad sleepers.  The slide switch at the end simply helps feed power to either left and right rails (for 2 rail locomotives) or to both outside rails and the centre rail (for 3 rail engines).

 

The first subject  was a 2-6-4T with a very weak magnet which barely ran at all. Not having access to a remagnetiser I fitted a neo magnet and the engine ran well but was pulling about 1 amp at 5 or 6 volts.  I put a multimeter across each pair of commutator segments and this gave equal measures of resistance across each of the armature windings - which suggested that the armature wasn't the problem.  I loosened the gear wheel and tested that the chassis was free running.  No problem.  To cut a long story short, after cleaning the commutator with isopropyl alcohol, ensuring correct gear mesh, oiling everything that needed it, and many test runs,all of which showed 1 amp current consumption, I cleaned out the slots in the commutator with a fine toothpick. Immediate transformation.  Power consumption now settled to between 0.4 and 0.55 amps depending on load.

 

The second subject was an 0-6-2T which I picked up as an indifferent runner. The gear wheel was bone dry and there were traces of rust on the armature shaft.  The armature shaft was also tight in the bearings. I got it running satisfactorily but, like the 2-6-4T, it also pulled nearly 1 amp.  This time I went earlier to the commutator.  The slots were very close and needed a fine brass wire carefully manipulated to clean them out, followed by a cotton bud and IPA.  Again, the amps dropped to well within the 3-6 range.

 

It seems to me that, had I not tested the current draw, and then picked up on the carbon build up in the commutator, I might have been happy with the running of both locomotives. And both may, over time, have cooked their armatures.

 

By way of a final comment, these Dublo mechanisms are a pleasure to work on. Everything is repairable or replaceable and, as been pointed out before, will be running long after some of the more "delicate flowers" from today's manufacturers will be in the 4mm equivalent of Woodham's scrap yard.

 

 

 

  

 

 

[Il Grifone]

Hi,

Yes I collect Diecast metal planes as well. I have about 300 either out on display or boxed up in storage.

 

I bought a couple of Spitfires in our local charity shop the other day (10p each, but they did look as if the Luftwaffe had had a go at them!) and SWMBO said, "Not 'planes too!  What do you want them for?"  She does say some strange things sometimes! 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

On a slightly different tack, I thought it might be useful if I shared a recent experience when I was reconditioning a couple of 3 rail Hornby Dublo locomotives.  I've  cobbled together a test bed (as illustrated) using some meters which I had intended to use on the control panel of my analogue "scale" model railway, but decided not to use. The rig consists of a 0-20 DC voltmeter and 2 ammeters; 0-1amp and 0-5amps. Unfortunately they are not "centre off" so I needed DPDT switches to give readings in both forward or reverse. The track is 4 feet of Peco Code 100 with a third rail added via copperclad sleepers.  The slide switch at the end simply helps feed power to either left and right rails (for 2 rail locomotives) or to both outside rails and the centre rail (for 3 rail engines).

 

The first subject  was a 2-6-4T with a very weak magnet which barely ran at all. Not having access to a remagnetiser I fitted a neo magnet and the engine ran well but was pulling about 1 amp at 5 or 6 volts.  I put a multimeter across each pair of commutator segments and this gave equal measures of resistance across each of the armature windings - which suggested that the armature wasn't the problem.  I loosened the gear wheel and tested that the chassis was free running.  No problem.  To cut a long story short, after cleaning the commutator with isopropyl alcohol, ensuring correct gear mesh, oiling everything that needed it, and many test runs,all of which showed 1 amp current consumption, I cleaned out the slots in the commutator with a fine toothpick. Immediate transformation.  Power consumption now settled to between 0.4 and 0.55 amps depending on load.

 

The second subject was an 0-6-2T which I picked up as an indifferent runner. The gear wheel was bone dry and there were traces of rust on the armature shaft.  The armature shaft was also tight in the bearings. I got it running satisfactorily but, like the 2-6-4T, it also pulled nearly 1 amp.  This time I went earlier to the commutator.  The slots were very close and needed a fine brass wire carefully manipulated to clean them out, followed by a cotton bud and IPA.  Again, the amps dropped to well within the 3-6 range.

 

It seems to me that, had I not tested the current draw, and then picked up on the carbon build up in the commutator, I might have been happy with the running of both locomotives. And both may, over time, have cooked their armatures.

 

By way of a final comment, these Dublo mechanisms are a pleasure to work on. Everything is repairable or replaceable and, as been pointed out before, will be running long after some of the more "delicate flowers" from today's manufacturers will be in the 4mm equivalent of Woodham's scrap yard.

 

P1010978 Test Bed.JPG

 

P1010979 Test Bed.JPG

 

The Tri-ang X.04 is very prone to crud in the commutator slots, but I have had Dublo locomotives suffering from it. A Dublo controller will show up excessive current draw immediately as they are rated at 8 or 9 V..A. and 'sit down' quite readily. My H & M Powermaster is made of sterner stuff. I usually check for 12 volts at the track terminals with the locomotive under load (4 HD coaches). Multimeters are cheap enough these days, so I intend to wire a couple in permanently (another 'one day' job!).

 

Some of the 'delicate flowers' are already in the 4mm Woodham's. I'll name no names, but just say, "split frames". I have a couple of these already - 57xx pannier tank and 43xx Mogul.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Il Grifone

[MikeCW]

 

The two latest purchases,the EMU motor coach was what i think was a bargain at £75 even though it needs a new armature & bottom bearing,no rust or any damage at all,if you look closely,the previous owner made a right mess of the armature.The Wrenn scot is a delight.as well.

 

 

                                 Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

I have some sympathy with the previous owner.  My one attempt to repair an armature where wires had detached from the commutator  ended up with soldering very like theirs. Though I'm reasonably proficient with kit-building, fine wiring, and other modelling activities, I decided that armature rewinding or repair was a bridge too far. Swapping a dud and some cash for a rebuilt one make a lot more sense, for me anyway.

 

The Southern Electric looks really good Ray.  Well spotted! Another interest of mine is the restoration of vintage vehicles.  I learnt a long time ago that, if a vintage car's bodywork was sound, but the mechanicals were shot, then it was a viable project. If it was a runner, but a rust bucket, then it was time to look for another vehicle, or at least another body.  It seems the same principle applies to Dublo tinplate stock, at least if originality rather than repainting is the intention. (And rest assured that I'm not an evangelist for either path!)

 

Mike

[sagaguy]

The problem with spares & armatures for these EMUs is that these are pretty rare.In the end,the chassis has been packed up & sent to Scalespeed in Lee on Solent for rebuild.I`ve now got to look out for a trailer car now which will probably cost me more than the motor coach .Hopefully,another vintage toy saved from the bin.

 

This is a general view of the layout.

 

 

                          

 

 

                      Ray.

Edited September 2, 2018 by sagaguy

[sagaguy]

Further to my post regarding trailer cars,i produced some overlays for these EMUs in Photoshop.I built a 3 car Maroon set using these & a dummy green 2 car set so if the worst comes to the worst,i have the driving cab ends,i could replace the colour on one of these overlays & convert yet another tatty Dublo Mk.1 coach.

 

 

The three car unit that Meccano never produced

 

                              

 

 

A case of colour matching in Photo shop.

 

 

                            

 

 

                     Ray.

 

 

 

[Wolseley]

I just bought three Duchess tenders for $40 (around £22).  I was actually just after one to replace a tender I had with a few dents in it but this lot of three was cheaper than any single ones in decent condition on offer at the moment.  I guess that means I now need to get two Duchesses without tenders....

Edited September 2, 2018 by Wolseley

[cypherman]

Hi Wolseley

 

I just bought three Duchess tenders for $40 (around £22).  I was actually just after one to replace a tender I had with a few dents in it but this lot of three was cheaper than any single ones in decent condition on offer at the moment.  I guess that means I now need to get two Duchesses without tenders....

May I make a slight correction to this statement. You need to buy 3 Duchesses as you should repair your existing tender as well. Cannot have too many HD engines going..........

[Il Grifone]

I just bought three Duchess tenders for $40 (around £22).  I was actually just after one to replace a tender I had with a few dents in it but this lot of three was cheaper than any single ones in decent condition on offer at the moment.  I guess that means I now need to get two Duchesses without tenders....

 

That's what happens:- The odd engine needs a tender,the odd tender needs an engine....

 

I've just straightened out and rebuilt one and the i unearthed another spare Duchess tender I'd forgotten I had (comes from buying job lots of stuff....). The trouble is I've run out of Duchesses to model, so I'd have to duplicate. Never mind, I'm sure I can cope with the trauma.... 

[Colin_McLeod]

You could always do a neverwazza. I have a coronation class named "City of Lisburn"

[Golden Fleece 30]

You could always do a neverwazza. I have a coronation class named "City of Lisburn"

You mean like this Coronation Colin?

 

It is a Jamieson kit on a Dublo 3-rail chassis.  City of Lancaster was the only Streamlined Coronation to make and be given a BR number although the loco was still in wartime black.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

For anyone contemplating a raised section in Dublo then the Marklin 3-rail sections will work fine and look the part if painted in Dublo colours.  Here is a curved section although this does need its contact strip inverting to make a 3rd rail to prevent the Click, Click, Click of the shoes on the studs.

 

Also a cheap Tri-ang (Hornby) station waiting room only needs some of the Dublo colours painting on to transform it into a Dublo neverwazza.

 

You can even modify Dublo signals into different designs including using the loading gauge posts as in the gantry.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

What did you ues fot the Dublo ochre colour Garry?

 

I tried several times to mix the colour, but never got it quite right. Allegedly there is an obsolete Ford colour that matches (Safari Beige?), but Halfords charge around £15 a can for special colours now and you can almost buy a good original Dublo building for that price.

 

I bought a Through Station once for only £4, because a previous owner had obviously (rightly*) thought the ochre was unrealistic and had overpainted it grey. It came up quite nicely, but the colours aren't quite right.

 

It's the one in the far corner here in  the first photo.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28222-dublo-layout/page-1

 

It lacked ramps and later on I found someone at a fair who had four for sale. I chose the better pair, but neglected to check they matched, so all three parts are a different shade. (It doesn't really show in the picture though). IIRC the ramps cost slightly more than the building. (£2.50 each I think). At the time the complete station cost around £20 (or £30 plus if boxed) so I thought I had a good deal.

 

* Locally there are a couple of footbridges that match the Dublo footbridge (the one at Ockendon station very closely but has shorter pillars because it is mounted on the platforms and the stars are divided into two flights (for legal reasons I believe), but both are a dirty concrete colour (as would be expected). I keep meaning to cut a Dublo one down, but....

 

David

Edited September 4, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

It is Sahara Beige David. Yes its the obsolete Ford colour which I used for the Dublo custard on coaches too. I liked it but when it was no longer available tried other shades without any luck as a close shade.

 

Modern makes of the Custard livery maybe more accurate for its intended purpose but I don't think its the Dublo shade

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

!970s UK ford sahara beige,get it made up at your local automotive paint supplier,500ml aerosols about £15-£16,bigger than Halfords,i`ll find the paint code tomorrow on one of my cans.This the shade on one of my refinished Trix coaches!.

 

 

                                 

 

                                Ray.

Edited September 4, 2018 by sagaguy

[Il Grifone]

It is Sahara Beige David. Yes its the obsolete Ford colour which I used for the Dublo custard on coaches too. I liked it but when it was no longer available tried other shades without any luck as a close shade.

 

Modern makes of the Custard livery maybe more accurate for its intended purpose but I don't think its the Dublo shade

 

Garry

 

Thanks Garry, I can never remember whether it's Sahara or Sierra Beige and for some reason Sierra sticks. I can remember being happy to have found a 'touch in'  of Sierra at a boot sale. There were two problems: one, it's the wrong shade (near but different) and two, it had almost dried up. just as well it was cheap (50p IIRC).

 

David

Edited September 4, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Just bought a couple of 400ml cans off Ebay at 14.95 each with free postage.

 

All the Halfords around here have stopped mixing as has my original car restorer who did all my colours so the nearest one was about 30 miles away and that is if they still do it.

 

Sierra beige is more beige than custard livery :-)

 

Garry

Edited September 4, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MikeCW]

Can I ask the old hands (or new hands too) on this thread for an opinion on a recent purchase? I have never owned a Dublo Castle.  They were financially out of reach for our family back in the day. However, I recently bought, from the UK, an early "Bristol Castle", described as a poor runner.  A bit of cleaning and lubing, adjusting armature end-float, and fixing the poor and intermittent electrical connection between locomotive and tender via a very distorted phosphor bronze spring "plug", resulted in a quiet and mostly steady runner.  (That plug seems a poorly engineered method of connecting the third rail pick-up to the motor but I suppose it must have  worked satisfactorily on most 3 rail Castles for 60 years?)

 

Having stripped the bodies off both engine and tender I ran the naked engine/tender combination on my test track, (described in a previous post), each time I made a repair or adjustment to improve running.  Based on bitter experience I made these adjustments one at a time so I could keep track of what actually made the most difference in performance!  Though running is mostly excellent, I still get, on occasion, a very minor interruption of power to the motor. (My ammeter reading drops to zero so I know it's a lost connection rather than a short.)  At anything above crawling speed it will simply hesitate briefly and then continue.  At a very slow speed it will sometimes stop. The slightest touch of my jeweller's screwdriver on the top of one of the tender pick-up plungers will restart the motor immediately.  As the track and all wheels have been cleaned and electrical connections checked, my guess at this stage is that the plungers, which seem a very sloppy fit in their housings, with very weak springs, and which can hang up briefly when pushed fully up with very light finger pressure, are simply not doing the job properly. But, my only experience having been with engine mounted "spoon" type pick-ups, and not having a less worn example of a 3 rail Castle (or 2-8-0) to set alongside mine, I don't know what the "standard" should be.

 

So, to my two requests for help or comment.  First, has anyone had a problem with tired 3 rail plunger pick-ups, and found a solution?  Or indeed does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Second, removing the bodies of engine and tender revealed two sets of radio/TV interference suppressors.  I found an on-line copy of the manual which came with the Bristol Castle when new and, while the inside of the tender wasn't illustrated, the locomotive without body was.  This illustration showed no suppression fittings on the motor.  So I assume that the tender components are the originals.  But the 3-rail Castle one-page service sheet, dated 1962, which can be down-loaded from the "mtrains" website, shows these fittings on the motor.  

 

The bottom of the locomotive chassis shows no sign of any fittings for 2-rail wiper pick-ups. So my guess is that, at some stage, the motor has been replaced, either with one from a 2-rail Castle, or perhaps in a factory repair where the latest (nearest?) motor was taken from the parts box and fitted?

 

My inclination is to strip the suppression fittings off the motor on the grounds that every soldered connection, now matter how good, is another point of risk of electrical failure. But I'd be interested in Forum members' views on whether this looks like an original 3-rail Castle chassis with a later motor, and if anyone has views on removing one or other of the sets of suppressor components.

 

Mike

 

PS  I'm never sure if this is the right thread for such tech matters.  But point me in the right direction if I've got it wrong.  

 

 

 

 

[sagaguy]

I must confess that i have not had a problem with plunger p/ups.I suspect that there is some corrosion in the tubes causing them to stick,some very light oil such as daywat poly should be used.The gubbins in the tender can be removed,Modern digital tvs don`t suffer from interference problems.The Phospher bronze plug is very easy to make from a strip of Phospher bronze,Eileens Emporium is the best bet for that.Slip a short length of heat shrink sleeving over the soldered join.It`s a half inch motor so it may need a remag,the later Castles had a ring field  motor so this is a Bristol castle , the chassis looks like it could do with a good clean including the wheel treads.New sets of plunger p/ups are easy to get,try John Holland at mtains.here`s a pic of a home made plug.HD Castles are normally smooth as silk,well worth time & effort to get them going.

 

                           Ray.

 

                 

Edited September 5, 2018 by sagaguy

[Golden Fleece 30]

You will find the 2-rail and 3-rail Castle motors are exactly the same with just the magnet upside down between one or the other. The Ringfield that Ray mentions will not fit as it was a completely different chassis block. Your chassis was made before the introduction of 2-rail hence no provision for a wiper pick up. The plungers are usually okay and as Ray mentions a drop of light oil can be dropped down as sometimes the parts can have a little verdigris inside which will prevent full working. On new replacement ones I have noticed a burr on top on some plungers which stops it at times but doubt that will be on yours. The tender supressor can be removed and of after oiling and pushing up and down a few times by hand it is not resolved then make an extra spring by using some phosphor strip pressing down on the tops. I have got a couple of locos where I fitted new plubgers and never used the springs leaving gravity to do the job and never had an issue with those. I have also drilled and tapped the chassis for a spoon type collector when using the chassis on a conversion. There is a photo on one of my you tube videos and on another thread on here somewhere. Another thing Ray mentions is a remag although that wont be the cause of intermittent running it will still help.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

If you remove the plungers to clean the parts these are not straight forward to replace as they have a crimped top which needs to be cut off then a washer has to be soldered back on. Replacement plungers have a threaded top which is easier. Fitting new tubes is not easy but you can buy just the plungers, John at Mtrains sells both brass and nickel and I would go for nickel. The Dublo Surgeon, Dennis Williams, sells replacements and used to be cheaper than any others.

I did use a plunger without spring on an R1 conversion to 3-rail as the loco is light and any pressue lifting the loco results in less adhesion.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Whilst on this page,something that`s puzzled me for a while now.How are wheel axleboxes fitted in Wrenn tender & wagon axleboxes & how do you remove the wheels?.While 3 railing my Wrenn Scot yesterday,i noticed that one of the tender axlebox plastic bearings had moved down giving me a wonky tender.It pushed back but was quite tight hence the question.

 

 

                               Ray

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

Whilst on this page,something that`s puzzled me for a while now.How are wheel axleboxes fitted in Wrenn tender & wagon axleboxes & how do you remove the wheels?.While 3 railing my Wrenn Scot yesterday,i noticed that one of the tender axlebox plastic bearings had moved down giving me a wonky tender.It pushed back but was quite tight hence the question.

 

 

                               Ray

 

Ray, The plastic "holder/bearing" is a sliding fit in a couple of grooves and has a one sided clip/lug that goes through the casting top to hold in place. Sometimes the plastic has a burr from the mould so this maybe why. After a while they can become sloppy then other times the lug on top comes off.  In theory better than Dublo as some are for pin points and others for normal axles but they can, not often, drop out of alignment. As far as I know there were 3 different ones so you need to check when replacing.  Some tenders had pin points on the outer axles with slotted centre ones to allow movement then all fixed but there was also a longer version for deep axlebox wagons.  Their Pullman bogies also used plastic clips.

 

To remove just push the lug to the centre then down but only slightly before doing the other side.

 

Garry

Edited September 5, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30