Farish J72

[Davexoc]

23 hours ago, Les1952 said:

As a loco the J72 is actually LARGER than the forthcoming N Gauge Society Hunslet 0-6-0DH, which has a new type of circuit board auto-sensing DCC vs Analogue, and which includes the chip AND a stay-alive, while also powering a rooftop flashing lamp on some variants.  All this for a price to members which, if you added in the cost of a year's Society membership to that price, is STILL less than the RRP of an analogue 08 or 03 from Farish.

 

But if you add the dealer margin (around 30%+) to the NGS price they are a similar price, and they were all by the same designer I believe.

 

I do wonder if CA is also the man behind Sonic?

 

Dave

[GeoffAlan]

I'm not surprised that they've cancelled the J72. 

 

Bitterly disappointed? Yes! 

Feeling let down and ignored? That too! 

 

The J72 hasn't got any smaller since it was announced. So was it a cynical announcement to see off the Dapol offering, which was cancelled PDQ? Or simple incompetence? 

 

I think it was both, and feel very upset and let down by the firm. I had three on pre-order, I'll not be buying anything GF that's not in stock again. 

[woodenhead]

10 minutes ago, GeoffAlan said:

I had three on pre-order, I'll not be buying anything GF that's not in stock again. 

 

But you aren't buying anything that isn't in stock unless you paid in full upfront - I don't think anyone has taken any money on a J72.

[GeoffAlan]

17 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

But you aren't buying anything that isn't in stock unless you paid in full upfront - I don't think anyone has taken any money on a J72.

I may not have been clear, and I do know that the retailers don't take the money until they have the items. But I've had a sizeable chunk of cash ear-marked in my account for many months, nay years, for these J72s.

 

As a North Eastern modeller the announcement was most welcome, now all I have is a sour taste in my mouth.

Why do manufacturers announce items then wait years to cancel, or even produce rolling stock.

 

IF all they are doing with an announcement is testing the potential market, then a lesson from crowdfunding, or the N gauge society would be to say you are thinking of producing an item and, at a later date, announce whether the response was sufficient to go ahead. 

[woodenhead]

I don't think they did this to get at Dapol or test the market - I think the factory issues and pricing the model to the work involved to make a motor fit in the way they want to have made them put the model off.

 

If Dapol did the model it would have been on the Terrier chassis which out of the box is not DCC ready - it's an old model and Dapol themselves are having some issues getting models out.

 

That money you set aside didn't have other North Eastern themed opportunities lost as there aren't any other models you could have spent the money on in N and there's not a lot forthcoming either.

 

Sadly a lot of us are going to be waiting a long time for some models I think, it's just how life is.

[D9020 Nimbus]

There are plenty of NER-themed locos from Union Mills—many not available RTR in OO gauge. Apart from the D20, though, they are all inside-cylindered 0-6-0s.

 

But there isn't any LNER tank loco available now RTR—apart from the long-gone Farish J69, and their later J94, there hasn't ever been one. 

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

There are plenty of NER-themed locos from Union Mills—many not available RTR in OO gauge. Apart from the D20, though, they are all inside-cylindered 0-6-0s.

 

But there isn't any LNER tank loco available now RTR—apart from the long-gone Farish J69, and their later J94, there hasn't ever been one. 

Maybe he is missing a trick unless his motors are quite big in the tenders, but it would take a new chassis design for tank engines.

[GeoffAlan]

23 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

There are plenty of NER-themed locos from Union Mills—many not available RTR in OO gauge. Apart from the D20, though, they are all inside-cylindered 0-6-0s.

 

But there isn't any LNER tank loco available now RTR—apart from the long-gone Farish J69, and their later J94, there hasn't ever been one. 

Yes, I have them all from UM. They also make a D11 and D16, which I have.

Other than the J94, only really in general use post WWII, and the long out of production J69, which even for 1975 [when I bought two] were woeful, the LNER modeller has no tank loco. Manufacturers say GWR sells, which, given the availability of other areas is no surprise.  How many different Pannier tank model types are there on the market?

Edited March 7, 2019 by GeoffAlan

[woodenhead]

And this is perpetuated in O gauge - Panniers, Small Prairies, Large Prairies, 14/58xx and Moguls plus stock to haul.

[Roy L S]

The LNER Tank Loco is the obvious missing link in British N. Totally ignored over decades. 

 

Even if size/"technical challenges" is the excuse for the J72 not going ahead (and agreed it hasn't got any smaller since the model was originally announced!) there is still the J50 0-6-0T. This was adopted as the LNER Group Standard design and for those who say it was localised in use that is a myth. It could be found from Woodford Halse to Edinburgh St Margarets. and a whole host of other places too. Some locos were even vacuum fitted so could be pressed into use on passenger trains under "Rule 1" and were very likely used as such in reality!.

 

The J50 seems such a "no brainer" it is a bigger sized loco meaning less issues with DCC fit and room for that and traction weight (lovely big tanks). Hornby have done a really good job in 00 recently, it is just hard to fathom why there appears such reticence to producing it in N.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/J/j50j51.php

 

Roy

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

The LNER Tank Loco is the obvious missing link in British N. Totally ignored over decades. 

 

Even if size/"technical challenges" is the excuse for the J72 not going ahead (and agreed it hasn't got any smaller since the model was originally announced!) there is still the J50 0-6-0T. This was adopted as the LNER Group Standard design and for those who say it was localised in use that is a myth. It could be found from Woodford Halse to Edinburgh St Margarets. and a whole host of other places too. Some locos were even vacuum fitted so could be pressed into use on passenger trains under "Rule 1" and were very likely used as such in reality!.

 

The J50 seems such a "no brainer" it is a bigger sized loco meaning less issues with DCC fit and room for that and traction weight (lovely big tanks). Hornby have done a really good job in 00 recently, it is just hard to fathom why there appears such reticence to producing it in N.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/J/j50j51.php

 

Roy

Because Hornby don't do N and Bachmann aren't going to do it in N if they can't also do it later in OO (odd exceptions like the Duchess and BoB as they were already Farish models when Bachmann bought from Grafar).

 

Maybe there is hope with Sonic and Revolution - they have picked the GWR 0-6-2 as a starting point - maybe an N* LNE class next, maybe an 0-6-0 next and the LNE looks like a ripe picking ground for a new entrant.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Perhaps Farish can do the V1/V3 which Bachmann speculated about doing in N "one day" before they took over?

[Two_sugars]

Or a G5 . . . or a Peppercorn K1

 

John

[D9020 Nimbus]

Well, the K1 in OO is Hornby, but Bachmann are doing the G5 in OO for Rails...

[GNR Dave]

TMC not Rails

[HowardGreen]

On 08/02/2019 at 09:01, grahame said:

 

I wouldn't say it's an indicator of the current market more reflective of the position Bachmann/Farish finds itself after the recent issues they have faced over the last year effecting production and becoming significantly behind in getting announced products to market as well as insurmountable technical/design problems.

 

G

I find it difficult to believe that producing a J72 in N is any more difficult than producing a "Terrier".  Didn't Dapol promise a J72 that never materialised?

[HowardGreen]

On 08/02/2019 at 10:02, grahame said:

 

Nope. According to Bachmann (at the 2019 trade/press event) one of the issues was that the internal boiler diameter is just too small to accommodate an appropriate/suitable motor. Presumably at some time in the future there will be one suitable (performance and cost as well as size) but I guess they are also concerned about scale accuracy issues.

 

G

I have some Z Gauge models that have rather small motors that would surely fit.  Unfortunately, I don't have sufficient rolling stock to test their haulage powers, but the actual J72 was not noted for speed, so appropriate gearing could surely produce a model that would have comparable haulage & speed capabilities to those of then original.

[HowardGreen]

On 08/02/2019 at 14:26, TomE said:

 

Not in a good way, unfortunately! 

 

It's probably not a case of Bachmann being unable to produce a J72, but they clearly don't feel they can do it at the standards they have set for a price that wouldn't result in histrionics on the forums.

 

Tom. 

...or could it be the number of prospective sale that gave it the "thumbs down"?  NER & Scottish prototypes seem to have a reputation of not appealing to many modellers.  Undeservedly, I suspect.

 

[HowardGreen]

On 11/02/2019 at 21:04, Davexoc said:

But if you add the dealer margin (around 30%+) to the NGS price they are a similar price, and they were all by the same designer I believe.

 

I do wonder if CA is also the man behind Sonic?

 

Dave

I think the expected number of Hunslet sales to NGS members is rather less than the potential sales of a similar (but currently hypothetical) locomotive to the world in general, so the numbers being bandied about should make some allowance for amortization of fixed costs over a greater number of potential individual models which could be produced. 

 

[Les1952]

18 hours ago, HowardGreen said:

I think the expected number of Hunslet sales to NGS members is rather less than the potential sales of a similar (but currently hypothetical) locomotive to the world in general, so the numbers being bandied about should make some allowance for amortization of fixed costs over a greater number of potential individual models which could be produced. 

 

From the production numbers printed in the NGS Journal and figures given to me some years ago by Dapol there will be a lot more Hunslets than there were Dapol B1s, and the latter did not make a loss despite being head-to-head with the Farish one.

 

Les