An LNWR Type 4 size J all wooden Signal Cabin

[SHMD]

The size really does impress.

Is there a layout to go along with this (presumably a garden line) or is the a one off construction?

 

By the way you've laid that interior laminate flooring really well..........

 

I wish I had a 5" gauge layout!

No, the Signal Box is to control "Tenbione" - my under construction (hopefully automated) 00 gauge end-to-end layout.

http://www.rmweb.co....tenbione/page-1

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

Another wall done today...

 

Yep, both ends are a similar size!

 

The idiot apprentice still uses too much glue.

This takes precious minutes to clear the excess off just when I need to concentrate on making sure it sets square and flat.

 

Just making sure it sets square and flat.

 

..another wall done.

 

 

 

I will finish the final wall, for the Locking room, before starting on the foundations!

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

Another wall done. I might make this the front face because the idiot apprentice is actually learning something!

 

A lot less glue is used here.

(I hope it's enough!)

 

Trying to keep it flat and square before the wood glue grabs and wont move.

The Lego really helps here as not only is it the right spacing, it is also uniform and square. It saves a ton of time.

 

 

The four Locking room walls done.

 

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

This week I have been productively procrastinating, separating 5kg of chicken grit.

I said "grit"!

I needed to get the numerous shells out of the rather useful looking ballast and material for scattering around the completed cabin.

 

Once done, I had a little “play” and couldn’t resist making my first ever contribution to the “How realistic are your models? Photo challenge.” thread.

 

...but I feel it is a bit of a cheat as it is a very small subject area of a very large gauge.

 

Here is the (revealing) bigger picture.

 

Not bad for £1/kg. (...apart from a weeks labour and going cross eyed!)

 

 

Yes I know the chairs are GWR ones.

Does any one do LNWR/LMS/BR chairs in 5" gauge?

 

 

Kev.

 

[Tricky]

Great idea with the Lego! Do you plan on mounting the finished box on a scenic board with a bit of track?

[SHMD]

Great idea with the Lego! Do you plan on mounting the finished box on a scenic board with a bit of track?

 

I was but due to the shear size, of the cabin, I was thinking of having "clip on" boards that located around the cabin.

I do want track too as I wouldn't mind having some working point rodding and signal wires - but that's for a future add-on project.

 

 

Kev.

[Tricky]

I think I will mount mine on a board but I don’t think that it will extend to a bit of track. Just gravel probably.

[Spitfire2865]

Depends on how many chairs you need. In 5"G, you may have some good luck using 3D printing, though youd need to 3D model one first. Not even sure where you could find a drawing for one.

[Compound2632]

Not even sure where you could find a drawing for one.

 

E. Talbot et al., LNWR Liveries (HMRS, 1985) p. 11 - 45lb chair as used with 95lb/yd rail (reproduced from The Engineer).

Edited September 2, 2018 by Compound2632

[Spitfire2865]

E. Talbot et al., LNWR Liveries (HMRS, 1985) p. 11 - 45lb chair as used with 95lb/yd rail (reproduced from The Engineer).

Im not volunteering to model it up in G5. But its rather tempting.

[Ian Smeeton]

Surely there are rail chairs on Shapeways or similar which could be 'upscaled'

 

Regards

 

Ian

[SHMD]

Not much modelling done (but plenty of research) as two weeks ago I was working in Cardiff but last week I received the LNWR drawings from the LNWR Society as I am now a member.

So I spent a lot of commuting, and lunch, times learning LibraCAD. This is the first 2D CAD software I have used/tried to learn. (You MUST do the tutorials!)

 

Anyway, the train (happily), from Manchester to Cardiff, goes past 6 LNWR Type 4 Signal Boxes!

OK, 4 of them are at Stockport and 2 at Shrewsbury but still.

 

Stockport No.2 taken on Saturday the 21st of July 2018 from the Stockport-Stalybridge "Parliamentary".

Incidentally, Stockport No.1 is on the platform so you can get up close on three side of it.

 

Edgeley No.1, on Friday the 7th of September 2018 from the train back to Manchester.

 

A shot of Shrewsbury on Friday the 7th of September 2018 from the train back to Manchester.

 

 

The LNWR Society drawings I requested came in electronic form and are high resolution scans allowing you to zoom right in for those hard to determine details! Most are very good in terms of quality but, as you can imagine, the most useful drawing is "a little" dog-eared after being referred to for more than a century! (The only date on the drawing is 3/ FEB 1907!

 

But the drawing "sign004 (1).pdf is useful as it appears (to me) to be the basis of some of the most useful drawings in both "LNWR PORTRAYED" and "L.N.W.R. SIGNALLING" but with more details.

 

There is still, though, a lot of missing detail. For example, here is a very small extract of the drawing (I hope nobody minds) to illustrate the point.

That's all there is. No other details of the Diagram Frame appear anywhere else on the scanned drawing - and this is typical of all the items/equipment being depicted.

 

..and here is my attempt at drawing the "simple" picture frame!

(I thought a drawing of a simple rectangle would be a good choice to apply my newly found 2D CAD drafting skills!!!)

 

The "2:1 Corner Detail" has only 2 dimensions and I have guessed both. I am increasingly thinking that the 1" dimension might actually be 1.5" and the 0.25" dimension could be 3/16". Does any one have access to one of these to measure?

Here is a small extract from one of Beast6606, (Dave Skipsey) photo's DAS000051, of the corner of a real Diagram Frame at Helsby Junction - See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134940-beasts-photos-ongoing-last-update-14-september-2018/page-2 post #28 for the full picture.

 

And the "8:1 Sectional Detail @ Z - Z" is a complete fabrication!

I guess the 3/4" Trim dimension could be 1" which would allow one of the more popular back-panel fixing-methods to be used.

 

I guess the draughtsman, at the time, would have assumed that the Joiners/Carpenters would know how to "finish" materials and what "standard sizes" of materials to use/would be available at the time - I do not!

 

 

Kev.

 

[Tricky]

Hmm. Some very interesting research there. I was beginning to think the same about where to find details of all the internal fixtures and fittings, like desks, chairs, stove, and anything else found as standard, etc etc. However, I think I’m fairly happy to take a stab at these, and unless further info comes to light happy to proceed on the basis that if it looks right then it will do.

[beast66606]

I own an LNWR signal box diagram (as well as lots of BR ones), but it's not in its original case unfortunately.

[SHMD]

After my crash course in 2D CAD, (my first time but I can recommend "LibreCAD", it's free. After breaking it's back in one week, I was ok with it after 2 weeks), I have used my working away from home time reseaching and cross referencing the LNWR Society drawings and Dave's essential photo thread with my own electronic hardware to come up with the components necessary to make the signalbox's levers work.

 

Here is the framework that the "Lever Centre", "Lever Tails", "Quadrant", "Lever", "Cover Plates", "Catch Block", a representation of the "Locking Frame" and (Possibly) a Tumbler!

(Almost none of which I have added here!)

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

More Tumbler Frame components...

 

Here is the Lever (unfinished), the Lever Tail (Split in two parts to accomodate the Toggle Switch which, itself, is the Pivot Point for the lever apparatus), the top Lever Handle, and the Cover Plate.

As I draw each componenet I have to think how it will be made. This takes a lot of thought and (literally) does shape how things finally turn out!

 

 

Here is the Lever and Tail, in relation with the Cabin Floor construction, and my ETB1 PCB.

Notice that the Lever does not pass through the Pivot Point but is offset towards the back of the Cabin where the Signalman stands.

This offset is responsible for the back step in the Cover plates. I would have liked to have made this step bigger but I am up against the limits of geometry imposed upon this design by the many compromises I have had to make to accommodate me Extendable Toggle Board (ETB1)!

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

I just love this 2D CAD lark. No seriously. It's great as I can make complex shapes and rotated them so that they fit at each end (and in between). It has given me a lot of confidence in this project.

 

Here is the (latest) End Elevation of the "Tumbler" Lever Frame. (The signalman will stand on the right - and pull!)

The purple part is the "Quadrant Plate".

The (near) vertical red part is the "Lever" - unfinished.

The (near) horizontal red part is the "Lever Tail" - in two parts!

The yellow shape is the "Lever Centre" - but is well distorted to accommodate the compromise geometry.

The (big) green bit is (are) the "End Plates" - I just noticed I need to mod these!

The (near) top green bit is the "Cover Plate" in cross section.

 

 

The actual Tumbler, (along with the Catch Block and Catch Rod), have yet to be added.

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

This last week I have been holed up in a hotel in Nottingham.

Whist this does not allow me any hands-on modelling time, it does let me think and design away without (too) many distractions.

 

CAD progress on the the Frame...

 

One coincidence was the Pub opposite the Hotel. It was called the "Tap and Tumbler"!

Although I'd like to think that it was referring to Webb's Tappet and Tumbler Frame variants, it was most likely due to the proximity of the theatre and different dancing forms.

 

Progress on the Lever, Loop Handle, Catch Rod, Catch Block and many other details...

 

Pushing down on the Loop Handle will drop it 40 degrees. This will raise the Catch Rod and Catch Block by 2.4mm and will clear the 2.1mm Quadrant Plate allowing the Lever to be pulled.

(...in theory!)

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

Progress...   ...all CAD work again I'm afraid!

 

Lots of small improvements though.

 

One of the small improvements was to change the Centre Plate design. It now resembles the prototype! 

(The Centre Plate is the curvy yellow bit that joins all the Red Lever bits together!)

 

The Lever Tail (lower, behind the Locking Frame and above the Lead Off Timbers) has a "dog-leg" in it which allows the Centre Plate to be fixed to the (electrical) toggle switches (via the green barrel connectors) which are both the pivot point and the switch that senses the Lever position.

 

The "Tumbler" has been added but is only cosmetic.

(You have to have the Tumbler represented on a Webb Tumbler Frame don't you?)

 

The Catch Block is the one that I need to think about. It is the bit that makes it all work! I can design it but can it be made? (Not in plastic.)

I have also sourced the small springs required to hold the Catch Block down and on the Quadrant Plate unless the Loop Handle is pulled down.

 

 

Kev.

 

[SHMD]

I've been in contact with a LASER cutting service and been "adjusting" (learning!) the submitted my drawing for a quote for manufacture.

 

Here is my second attempt:-

This is not the actual file submitted but has been "coloured-in" for clarity.

(My first attempt resembled an "etch" CAD drawing!)

 

I have sourced two more firms, to supply quotes, but they have slightly different requirements for the CAD files - Kerf size, minimum cut-outs, etc...

This all takes time and I am learning a lot.

 

Here, the parts are labelled for clarity.

 

 

Each Fret has enough parts to make a 1/2 of one standard frame of four levers (plus options).

So I will need two frets for the prototype, then 10 frets for the main build plus 1 extra for spares.

 

 

Kev.

[Spitfire2865]

I've been in contact with a LASER cutting service and been "adjusting" (learning!) the submitted my drawing for a quote for manufacture.

 

Here is my second attempt:-

TumblerFrameParts1bINFO.png

This is not the actual file submitted but has been "coloured-in" for clarity.

(My first attempt resembled an "etch" CAD drawing!)

 

I have sourced two more firms, to supply quotes, but they have slightly different requirements for the CAD files - Kerf size, minimum cut-outs, etc...

This all takes time and I am learning a lot.

 

Here, the parts are labelled for clarity.

TumblerFrameParts1bINFOb.png

 

 

Each Fret has enough parts to make a 1/2 of one standard frame of four levers (plus options).

So I will need two frets for the prototype, then 10 frets for the main build plus 1 extra for spares.

 

 

Kev.

What are you cutting these in?

[SHMD]

Sorry, I should have said.

 

1.5mm Brass with a general tolorance of +/-0.1mm tolorance and a Kerf size (currently) of 1mm.

The Kerf (effectively the LASER diameter) size means that I will need to do some fettling when the frets are delivered.

I have no idea of price yet!

 

The build is slow, at the mo, but I expect things to speed up drematically when stuff starts coming in.

 

 

Kev.

[LNWR lives on]

Wow this build has progressed somewhat since I last visited. 

 

Loving the build itself, the box is taking shape, also very impressed with the developments in the lever frames and the use of lego to help the build, really thinking outside the box. 

 

The Society has some much older drawings etc stretching well back into the 1800's, you can happily lose yourself for hours studying them if you enjoy that kind of thing

 

Best

 

David

[Spitfire2865]

Any thought to using steel rather than brass? Would be a good deal cheaper.  

 

In my experience lasercutters can adjust the kerf to be almost 0 by tracing around the part rather than on the line.  Thats how I always draw the parts at least.  Do your companies not do the same?

[Penlan]

Once done, I had a little “play” and couldn’t resist making my first ever contribution to the “How realistic are your models? Photo challenge.” thread.

 20180831_213228a.jpg

 

Yes I know the chairs are GWR ones.

Does any one do LNWR/LMS/BR chairs in 5" gauge?

I don't know if there are any in 5" Gauge, but here's one to 4' 8.5" gauge, seconded to a wheel stop in my car port.   There must be some about a 3D scan can be done from, to be printed off.

The other 2 chairs supporting the wood are 1 x Rhymney Rly and 1 x Midland Rly.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Penlan