NCE Power Cab

[WIMorrison]

I’m lost - who is quoting what and from whom and who is making responses to what?

[imt]

I’m lost - who is quoting what and from whom and who is making responses to what?

 

Nigel and my posts answering the same list of questions  from the OP at post #48 overlapped.  I agree entirely with Nigel's post - which is what I was trying to say rather less well.  Had I known Nigel was replying I would have stayed out of it as he is far more knowledgeable than I.

 

The problem with post #48 is that the questions from the OP are embedded in other quotes - hence confusing!

Edited August 6, 2018 by imt

[JM2015]

The current quoted shows you're not using more than a fraction of the power in the PowerCab, so adding a Booster won't do anything other than make you financially poorer.

 

We're back to the posting I made earlier.

 

IF you are "programming using service mode" (also called "programming track"), then there MUST BE ONLY ONE item on the track. How you achieve that is up to you - disconnect the wires, install a manual switch, use the NCE "AutoSwitch" device.   Fix this, and the problems should go away.   

 

IF you are "programming using operations mode" (also called "programming on the main").  Then stuff is fine, because programming instructions only go to the specific item being addressed.

 

 

 

You mention "interference" from issuing programming instructions to the whole layout.   The answer is "depends", but it won't be a disaster.

If you were in "service mode" trying to "read" a loco decoder and it failed, then nothing will have happened. 

If you were in "service mode" and trying to "write" to a loco decoder, then everything connected to the layout will have received that write instruction and should have acted upon it.   As to what that does depends on the decoder in question.   Train-Tech's manual implies that there are no user CV's to program, so their decoders should do nothing when receiving CV programming changes, so nothing there. 

 

Just setting up a Train-Tech signal uses an normal accessory command.  It is no different to operating the signal (or a turnout), so that will not cause any "interference" with anything.   The signal is told to "learn" an address by pressing a button, in doing so, the signal listens for the next "accessory packet" on the layout.  It then "remembers" that packet address for future use.   Nothing unusual or different passes from the DCC system (PowerCab) to the layout.    It cannot alter a loco decoder. 

 

Thank you Nigelciffe,

 

This all makes sense now, I was trying to understand my system but wasn't sure how it all worked and I was getting confused with different ways of doing things. once again thank you for the clarification on all this.

 

Jonathan.

[JM2015]

Quoting your post which is somewhat entangled with you quotes:

 

 With six locomotives on the track and nothing running plus the six signals from Train Tech and 11 colbolt IP digital point motors my PowerCab is reading .19amp and thats before anything moves.

 

Nowt wrong with that - the PowerCab is a 2 amp system.  However I note the Cobalts!

 

Single point moves show .31amp on the PowerCab.

Double point moves go up .42amp.

 

Oh yes! My problem too - try writing a macro to throw all 7 at once - you'll be lucky to see less than 0.8!  But their background load is so small as to have not much effect.  They certainly don't stop/interfere with Programming on Main (or rather mine don't).  Please don't try operating your layout AND PoM at the same time though!

 

One Hornby class 31 running is between.26 .28 .29amps on speed 014.

 

A loco sitting there is hardly measurable.  One ticking over on sound might be 0.03 amps.  Anyway - you have a 2 amp system.

 

Because I did not have a program track I programmed the signals once they were on the track via accy, and I if I had a loco on there that might of interfered with the Chips?

 

That should not have been a problem.  Accessories are completely different to locos - have different numbering and different commands.  I have 9 TrainTech and 2 CRS signals - they don't interfere with PoM either.  I cannot see why a point or signal in "program mode" awaiting an address would somehow cause problems with locos.  This is why I have a separate track altogether for programming locos - with a couple of croc clip flying leads to attach to point motors or signals to give them addresses away from the layout.  You can do this easily by buying a second PCP faceplate.  I have a second power supply but you could just use your current one and move it accross.  Attach the faceplate to a piece of track and hey presto a separate programming track!

 

I added 7th train tech signal with the class 31 still on speed 14 the PowerCab is between .28-.31amps.

 

A TrainTech signal according to the owner will take approx 10-12 milli amps (or 0.01 amps) - so that's all right.

 

I hope this helps and makes sense and apologies to everyone for any confusion I my have caused.

 

This all looks fine - except Cobalts in operation - so I still don't know what your problem is?  I was advised to have a separate accessory bus, but that is just split off the track lead from the PowerCab.  My higher power demand of extra things on the accessory bus was such that I needed more power to operate when locos would be running and I was changing signals and setting routes (multiple Cobalt setting) all at once.

 

[What are your loco decoders?  Did you fir them yourself or are they DCC fitted? Is it poor quality decoders?] I have just looked back to the beginning - you have a lot of different decoders!

 

Hello imt,

 

Thank you for confirmation that every thing is running ok from my earlier post. I do have several different types of chips, DCC Concepts zen and nano, Gaugemaster omni, Bachmann 21 pin, and finally Zimo mx600r which I prefer to all the others for slow running.i do have some sound fitted locos class 58 from Heljan, Bachmann class 37, Bachmann class 47 and a few more, the sound loco's were already fitted its only my other stock that Was DCC Ready which  I have fitted Chips to, hope this makes sense!

 

Jonathan.

[ELTEL]

I have the basic NCE Power Cab which works fine in controlling 2 or 3 Locomotives on my exhibition layout Oil Drum Lane.

 

Recently I decide to incorporate the control of the points on the layout and use 8 different macro for route setting.

 

On some occasions not all the route sets and I have to press the macro for a second time.

 

On occasions there may be 3 or 4 points that need to be thrown.

 

The point motors used are the Gaugemaster / Seep solenoid type 

 

Am I able to boost the output of the NCE to overcome this issue, and if so what do I need.

 

Many Thanks

 

Terry  

[newbryford]

On 18/12/2019 at 17:33, ELTEL said:

I have the basic NCE Power Cab which works fine in controlling 2 or 3 Locomotives on my exhibition layout Oil Drum Lane.

 

Recently I decide to incorporate the control of the points on the layout and use 8 different macro for route setting.

 

On some occasions not all the route sets and I have to press the macro for a second time.

 

On occasions there may be 3 or 4 points that need to be thrown.

 

The point motors used are the Gaugemaster / Seep solenoid type 

 

Am I able to boost the output of the NCE to overcome this issue, and if so what do I need.

 

Many Thanks

 

Terry  

 

Hi Terry,

What solenoid decoders are you using?

It's probably not a Powercab issue, but your solenoid decoders not being able to fire multiple motors in quick succession.

 

 

[Crosland]

8 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Hi Terry,

What solenoid decoders are you using?

 

Do they include a CDU?

 

Are they powered independently, or from the track bus?

[ELTEL]

Newbryford 

 

I think it’s Team Digital  SMD 84 or it’s predecessor SMD 82

 

Crosland

 

Yes it does have included a CDU 

 

I think ofF the track bus (I’ll have a look at the layout tomorrow as it’s in shed )

 

Thanks

 

Terry 

 

 

[Crosland]

If independently powered (always recommended for solenoid motors) then can you increase the power supply voltage. This will increase the energy stored in the CDU and give more chance of firing multiple solenoids. The energy is proportional to the square of the voltage so even a modest increase can reap benefits.

 

At risk of invalidating any warranty you can add extra capacitors to the CDU(s). In this case the energy is only proportional to the capacitance.

 

Solenoids draw a hefty pulse of current, albeit momentary. Keep the wiring to the solenoids as short and thick as practical.

 

If the decoders are powered from the bus you need to be sure that the CDU is designed with a limited recharge current, otherwise you risk overloading the booster. You should be able to increase the supply voltage to the PowerCab but I don't know what the limits are and you didn't say what the current power supply is. The downside to that is that the track voltage in general will increase which is not always desireable.

 

Andrew

[arff999]

Dont forget.

If you increase the supply voltage to the power cab, and it burns out the internal tracks, it wont be covered by any warranty claim. 

This could be a costly mistake

Regards.

John. 

[Crosland]

4 hours ago, arff999 said:

If you increase the supply voltage to the power cab, and it burns out the internal tracks, it wont be covered by any warranty claim. 

 

If you stay within the limits of the product then any warranty will not be affected.

 

At the kind of levels we are talking about, its current burns things out, not voltage.

[MalcT]

I'm fairly new to all this, but wouldn't the best bet be the SB5 5amp NCE Smart Booster ?

[Crosland]

3 hours ago, MalcT said:

I'm fairly new to all this, but wouldn't the best bet be the SB5 5amp NCE Smart Booster ?

 

No, that will not help if the solenoids decoders already have CDUs. The solenoids are not taking power directly from the booster.

[BromsMods]

Terry

 

Is it always the same points that fail to throw properly in the sequence?