Wentworth Junction

[Michael Edge]

The S1/3 isnow finished, painted and ready for testing on the layout.

 

 

 

No coupling on the front end yet, I want to try banking uncoupled first. This is how it should be done but depends on selecting the right combination of locos, the ones pushing have to take less current than the one on the front of the train or it might get away before reaching the tunnel.

69901 also needs some weathering, photo at Dunford Bridge shows it not too dirty though.

[enginelane]

Great piece of modelling looking forward to seeing it in action 

[Michael Edge]

Uncoupled banking test with the S1 and a WD 2-8-0 without a front coupler went well today. The S1 (Mabuchi motor on High Level gearbox) dropped off the back just as the train passed the site of the tunnel mouth, the WD with a Portescap stayed on the back of the train all the way into the fiddle yard. Some of the bankers at least will have to have front couplers though, the normal operation of trains from Wentworth Silkstone pit involved a banking loco (steam, diesel or electric) pulling the train of fulls on to the down main for the loco which brought the empties down to hook on to.

[Michael Edge]

Little and large

 

 

The completed S1 and my recently built RT models 100hp Sentinel make quite a contrast on the test track.

[Michael Edge]

Back to the layout this week but the temperature inside the shed was 37.5 last weekend - however nothing had moved in the trackwork. To get trains moving I had to make a very temporary point control method.

 

Simple in the extreme, a wire from each point motor or point motor pair to roughly where the panel will be and soldered to a pice of sleeper strip. Point numbers added and gaps cut. The two bare wires at the top of the photo are from the point power supply, touching the green wire to the appropriate number sets those point normal, the yellow one reverses them. Crude but it does allow me to run all possible train movements apart from actually going to the pit, next I'll try to work out all the places where uncoupling magnets are required. No track power supply round this side yet, all trains powered from the fiddle yard controller via the link sections at each end.

Next job will to build a control panel.

 

 

First draft of this above, the switch outlines are shown to check that they will fit, won't appear on the finished panel. Moving on from merely drawing panels in signal box diagram form, this time there will be a bank of switches in the place of a lever frame. Wentworth Junction box had a 30 lever frame, I've left out spare levers 1, 25 and 26, also facing point lock 21 and down distant 30. The colour light distant 2 is on there, it won't fit on the present layout but would if it was ever to be extended as allowed for in the plan. Strafford crossing signals controlled separately, this crossing was actually abolished quite early (not sure of the date) but I want the signals here anyway.

All the ground signals are shown, they won't be working immediately but possibly later on so I'll put the switches in. The normal position of points 17 is interesting, effectively making a trap on the main running line.

Electrical sections all coincide with signal positions, there aren't many. The ones shown mounted horizontally will be two way/centre off to connect to two controllers on the panel, at each end are link switches to the fiddle yard (I've already noticed that another one is needed on the colliery branch). The other vertically mounted switches are on/off for isolating locos. The black sections at the junctions are switched by the adjacent points. thus for example reversing points 20 connects the down main (red) to the colliery siding (brown) but reversing 23 as well will connect the up main to the colliery siding without affecting the down main.

Any comments from those better informed about signalling matters will be welcome

[St Enodoc]

15 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Back to the layout this week but the temperature inside the shed was 37.5 last weekend - however nothing had moved in the trackwork. To get trains moving I had to make a very temporary point control method.

 

Simple in the extreme, a wire from each point motor or point motor pair to roughly where the panel will be and soldered to a pice of sleeper strip. Point numbers added and gaps cut. The two bare wires at the top of the photo are from the point power supply, touching the green wire to the appropriate number sets those point normal, the yellow one reverses them. Crude but it does allow me to run all possible train movements apart from actually going to the pit, next I'll try to work out all the places where uncoupling magnets are required. No track power supply round this side yet, all trains powered from the fiddle yard controller via the link sections at each end.

Next job will to build a control panel.

 

 

First draft of this above, the switch outlines are shown to check that they will fit, won't appear on the finished panel. Moving on from merely drawing panels in signal box diagram form, this time there will be a bank of switches in the place of a lever frame. Wentworth Junction box had a 30 lever frame, I've left out spare levers 1, 25 and 26, also facing point lock 21 and down distant 30. The colour light distant 2 is on there, it won't fit on the present layout but would if it was ever to be extended as allowed for in the plan. Strafford crossing signals controlled separately, this crossing was actually abolished quite early (not sure of the date) but I want the signals here anyway.

All the ground signals are shown, they won't be working immediately but possibly later on so I'll put the switches in. The normal position of points 17 is interesting, effectively making a trap on the main running line.

Electrical sections all coincide with signal positions, there aren't many. The ones shown mounted horizontally will be two way/centre off to connect to two controllers on the panel, at each end are link switches to the fiddle yard (I've already noticed that another one is needed on the colliery branch). The other vertically mounted switches are on/off for isolating locos. The black sections at the junctions are switched by the adjacent points. thus for example reversing points 20 connects the down main (red) to the colliery siding (brown) but reversing 23 as well will connect the up main to the colliery siding without affecting the down main.

Any comments from those better informed about signalling matters will be welcome

Very nice diagram Mike. Fancy doing some more?????

 

I can't remember which way is the rising grade, but if it's in the Down direction then the normal lie of 17 points would allow them to act as a catch point for vehicles running away down the bank in the Up direction on the Down Main, if that makes sense. If I've got that the wrong way round, then I've no idea...

[Michael Edge]

Yes, down is up the hill, very confusing for us of course. The rest of the hill had no catch points anywhere, one of the reasons why all trains had to be banked, I can't recall seeing another example of a worked point being used in this way on a running line though.

It didn't take long to do this, it's an amalgam of two diagrams I have, one nicely coloured in but referring to the time after the up siding and points 23 had been removed. What I've got is more or less what was there in 1952 when the power was first switched on, some of the ground discs replaced miniature arms around this time. It won't be accurate for later periods but the transition time is probably the most interesting to operate anyway, steam banking was still going on but electric locos were appearing on trains. I have very little information about the working of the colliery trains after the end of steam in this area - around 1966/7 - I have photos of class 31 and 37 on the colliery trip but these are a bit later in BR blue livery. I don't particularly want to go to this era anyway.

[Michael Edge]

I should have said it was done in Turbocad.

[Michael Edge]

Extensive testing (playing?) shows that another trailing crossover is needed in the fiddle yard, quick check with radius guides showed that it was just possible and Templot confirms this.

 

 

This will involve lifting one turnout, converting it into a tandem and building one new turnout. The minimum radius on the tandem is down to 28" on the crossover road but that should be OK, Templot now has a very convenient (and easy to use) command to "make three way turnout". The existing crossover here will now revert to being just a siding for returning bankers as originally envisaged, coal empties from the pit can now be worked directly out of the kick back sidings to the up main.

It will make a difference to working with Herculaneum as well, recently we've been using the middle road in the fiddle yard as a reversible line for goods trains but this crossover will allow all ordinary goods from Brunswick to use the kick backs, jus the coal trains using the far side as before.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Extensive testing (playing?) shows that another trailing crossover is needed in the fiddle yard, quick check with radius guides showed that it was just possible and Templot confirms this.

 

 

This will involve lifting one turnout, converting it into a tandem and building one new turnout. The minimum radius on the tandem is down to 28" on the crossover road but that should be OK, Templot now has a very convenient (and easy to use) command to "make three way turnout". The existing crossover here will now revert to being just a siding for returning bankers as originally envisaged, coal empties from the pit can now be worked directly out of the kick back sidings to the up main.

It will make a difference to working with Herculaneum as well, recently we've been using the middle road in the fiddle yard as a reversible line for goods trains but this crossover will allow all ordinary goods from Brunswick to use the kick backs, jus the coal trains using the far side as before.

Is "radius guides" just a posh name for original NER railway curves?

[Michael Edge]

There is now a large hole in the fiddle yard pointwork.

 

 

I can still run trains though - the track at the top of the photo is normally the connection to the Herculaneum coal tips but it still links into the up main line of Wentworth Junction. Meanwhile back to point construction on the bench.

[Michael Edge]

The new crossover was finished today.

First photo shows the lifted curved turnout paced back on the modified Templot drawing. Gaps cut out wher the two new crossings go in and extra timbers added. The timbers look distinctly non-protoypical but this is fiddle yard track, it only has to work. Where the new crossing noses are placed the existing rail was bent a little and ground back to something like the correct angle, the gauges show where the other rail forming the crossing is spliced in. The drawing was done to 16.2mm gauge but this minimum radius curve (28") will need gauge widening so I've used 00 track gauges here, the one on the left is the 16.5mm check gauge.

The other end of this trailing crossover is a little more straightforward but the turnout road is still at minimum radius and this shows the crossing area. At the top the gauge is 16.5 but the straight road is 16.2mm, the photo shows how the checkrails are gauged from the crossing, not the adjacent running rail. This results in a noticeably larger gap between the running rail and the checkrail, top check gauge is the 16.5mm one, the lower one is the 16.2mm one.

Finally out in the shed to check that it fits, the original switch fits back on its point motor, new holes will be needed for the other two. A couple of gaps to fill in with plastic based track and a really irritating error at the RH end where I've managed to leave the rails about 1/2" short. I'll probably cut out a bit more rail here before patching the bits in though. Back in the workshop now to cut all the gaps and check the insulation, I'll glue it down tomorrow.

[St Enodoc]

On 07/10/2019 at 04:41, Michael Edge said:

where I've managed to leave the rails about 1/2" short.

I'm glad it's not just me then.

[Michael Edge]

New crossover installed and working.

It looks rather tight but everything seems to run over it, with the exception of the S1(bogie doesn't swing far enough), nothing has derailed on it yet.

Latest test involves running a 30 wagon (half train but the longest I can run in the down direction) loaded coal train. This arrives at WJ with an 04 on each end, another 04 attached on the back and the whole lot driven sedately up the hill - no derailments or coal spills yet!

A loaded steel train or 24T coal wagons will be even heavier but I don't have enough of them at the moment.

[John76]

Mike

 

Does the S1 need to run over it? if so can the bogie be modified?

 

John

[Barry O]

Some of us can supply more loaded steels and 24t minerals  from Cwmavon and more recent building sprees.

Shall I fetch some to the Club next week??

Baz

[Michael Edge]

18 hours ago, John76 said:

Mike

 

Does the S1 need to run over it? if so can the bogie be modified?

 

John

Depends what it's doing, at the moment it's running on the old banker release crossover but I don't like having route restrictions. I'm going to have a look at the bogie pivot but it does need to swing a long way - some lead in the bunker will help as well, I haven't weighted the loco yet.

 

[Michael Edge]

18 hours ago, Barry O said:

Some of us can supply more loaded steels and 24t minerals  from Cwmavon and more recent building sprees.

Shall I fetch some to the Club next week??

Baz

Good idea, if they aren't required anywhere else at the moment.

[Barry O]

Not needed as yet..can't see me needing them on Barnbow East. .

Baz

[Michael Edge]

Two of Wentworth Junction's locos received some weathering as part of Barry Oliver's demo at Warley.

The S1/2 69901, not too dirty by Mexborough standards, still needs a front coupling.

The EB1 on the banker siding at WJ where it was intended to work, buffer beams still need some attention.

[Michael Edge]

Not much layout work going on this month, it's a bit chilly out in the shed, both heaters on only gets it up to about 10C. However I've been able to thoroughly test all the workings likely to be needed (although I'm sure we'll invent some more) so I've been making the control panel.

 

This is made in my usual way, paper diagram sandwiched between two (3mm) layers of clear acrylic sheet. Point and signal switches will be in the "lever frame" at the front, only the point switches fitted for now though, the switches will have different coloured sleeves on them for different uses. There will be two controllers so the main sections have two way/centre off switches mounted on the diagram, on/off switches at the ends are links to the fiddle yard. The crossover sections are in black, these are switched by the point motors so movements can cross the down main without having to switch the main section. Dotted lines are subsidiary sections in the main ones, used to switch off locos in various locations while leaving the main ones on. The black push buttons are for the uncoupling magnets, one or two of these in rather strange positions - one on the up main where assisting locos can be detached from up trains and one in the loco siding to separate any returning bankers arriving coupled together. All the signals are shown as they will be built, the main ones will certainly be working but I've no experience of working ground discs - the ones on the bracket signals are very visible though. I've included the colour light up distant even though its actual position is far too close to the up home, I might move it out to a fictitious position closer to Silkstone tunnel.

I'll do the wiring one board at a time in the workshop now.

[Michael Edge]

Control panel finished and being wired now.

 

 

One small error corrected, lever 12 was shown as a point lever when it is actually a ground signal, I didn't print a whole new sheet, just slid a small piece under the top plastic sheet. The holes for the signal switches have been left covered for the moment.

 

The inside with the wiring started, faint sleeper marks show that this frame is made from recycled storage cassettes. There will be two controllers on this panel, one DIN socket in place at the left. The main (solid lines) sections here are are selected by 2 way centre off switches, these are the ones mounted sideways - one in the up main, two in the down main and two more in the sidings. All five of these are daisy chain connected, pink wire to the left controller, purple to the right hand one. The magnet push buttons are daisy chained with a black wire, the point switches with brass strip busbars. One side of the point switches has a green wire to set points normal, the other side a yellow one to reverse them. The wires from the sections (including the subsidiary ones) will be in the same colours as the panel.

Most of the technical talk on here is about DCC but it might be worth explaining a little more about DC wiring, particularly the linked section system. This was in use on the Leeds club layout when I first joined in 1972, it's hardly a new idea, goes back at least to the 1930s but many modellers are completely unfamiliar with it.

The layout as a whole is wired with one rail (the outside one in our convention) common, all the sections are made in the other rail. there are of course complications with return loops but at the moment none of my layouts has one.

Each panel is divided into main section switches as seen here, on each track at the ends of the panel where it connects to the next one is an on/off switch (5 seen above, one on each end of the main lines and one for the colliery line). These do not connect the track section (referred to as a link section) to the controller but to the adjacent section - the orange wire to the colliery line link is fitted here (bottom right). The next panel(s) will have the same arrangement so with the main sections off and all the link switches on one panel can drive through the next one without connecting to any other controller. If there are more than two sections in any one panel extra arrangements may be needed to connect them for linking through but if necessary they can all be connected to one controller which has its main direction switch set to off - we do always have centre off reversing switches on the controllers. This all means in effect that an entire layout, no matter how large or complex, can be driven through with one controller if necessary. We can and do also use this system to hand on trains from one operator to another without stopping, simply by ensuring that both controllers are set the same way and switching the link off when the second operator has control. A yell of "turn your (expletive deleted) link off" is frequently to be heard from our layouts - and at this point every operator's hand will twitch towards their panel.....

Connections to the controllers and power boxes is highly standardised as well with assigned pins in the DIN plugs used for this so much of our club's equipment can be used on most of our layouts.

[5BarVT]

“Common link cab control”. . .  You’re bringing back memories!  I never had a personal layout large enough to need it but it is a very flexible system.

Paul.

Edited December 30, 2019 by 5BarVT
Smellchecker

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

"turn your (expletive deleted) link off"

Ah, memories!

8 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Connections to the controllers and power boxes is highly standardised as well with assigned pins in the DIN plugs

I've got a couple of Q-drivers going begging - thumb wheels not sliders though...

[Michael Edge]

I think we are still using the same circuitry but the hardware has moved on a bit from Mike Cole's - wasn't it moulded from  salad cream jar?