Freightliner Containers with Blue Stripes and Other Early Liveries

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I have come across a photo of some BR Freightliner containers with blue stripes and would like to know if anyone has any information about period of service, what services they were used for and why the blue stripe instead of the more usual red stripe. There is a chance that there were a fair few of them in use but I haven't noticed them as a lot of late 1960's early 1970's photos are black and white and have assumed them to be red.

 

Does anyone have any better pictures available than the one I have found below ?

 

 

Many thanks in advance for what anyone may tell !

 

Gibbo.

[Fat Controller]

Hi Folks,

 

I have come across a photo of some BR Freightliner containers with blue stripes and would like to know if anyone has any information about period of service, what services they were used for and why the blue stripe instead of the more usual red stripe. There is a chance that there were a fair few of them in use but I haven't noticed them as a lot of late 1960's early 1970's photos are black and white and have assumed them to be red.

 

Does anyone have any better pictures available than the one I have found below ?

 

ws173-06a.JPG

 

Many thanks in advance for what anyone may tell !

 

Gibbo.

I think they were intended for Irish Sea services. Unfortunately, there's nothing that leaps off the page of 'Freightliner- Life and Times'. The box on the right might be one of the small batch, described as Type F1, 30' non-ISO full side door, numbers 62F50 to 62F54, as this is the only batch with full side doors, as opposed to curtain sides.

[Gibbo675]

I think they were intended for Irish Sea services. Unfortunately, there's nothing that leaps off the page of 'Freightliner- Life and Times'. The box on the right might be one of the small batch, described as Type F1, 30' non-ISO full side door, numbers 62F50 to 62F54, as this is the only batch with full side doors, as opposed to curtain sides.

Thanks for the input, I have a copy of Freightliner - Life and Times also and as you say nothing obvious.

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for the input, I have a copy of Freightliner - Life and Times also and as you say nothing obvious.

Just had a look at Paul Bartlett's site:-

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner

He has a shot of a grounded blue-striper at Wednesbury- it seems to be of an early build, without Twistlocks.

[Merfyn Jones]

I have seen pictures of them although none of my own. One I recall was in Elgin on a whiskey job, being loaded on a BR trailer. 

It would appear to be ex . Freightliner 20' box transfered to the general BR freight operation for places not served by Freightliner services.

However I may be wrong !

[hmrspaul]

Just had a look at Paul Bartlett's site:-

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner

He has a shot of a grounded blue-striper at Wednesbury- it seems to be of an early build, without Twistlocks.

But that is one of the 25 CA's which are 27ft long - which when Freightliner was introduced was the longest permitted on the road - which changed very soon. All the early freightliner flats were designed to take 27ft containers. The photo cannot be one of those as it is alongside a 20ft guiness tank (very nice, never seen that before) and another 20ft container. I think that the suggestion the blue is connected with ferry traffic may be correct - and the Guiness tank does suggest this is a train connecting with the Irish ferries. That multi door container is also very unusual as already mentioned. BR used thousands of RCH containers on traffic to Ireland. Guiness was also loaded in large tanks, eye to sky, in open freightliner containers.

 

Here is an unusual freightliner container which I recorded as being ex Irish traffic, it is blue stripe https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/e170cf320

 

Paul

[Lazy]

I believe that these containers were used by a company called Winnic - Winn International Containers. I have seen a few such containers in photos from the late 1960s but none later. There are actually two models available in HO scale by Fleischmann and Rowa - the latter using a deeper but paler stripe. The Fleischmann example is a bit short though. Curiously it bears a Freightliner number but with a W suffix.

There are a couple of images in Freightliner - Life and Times - pages 53 centre (Wembley? late 1960s) and 65 centre (Parkeston Quay 1968).

[Lazy]

Some hasty photos of the model containers :

 

The Fleischmann model has been lengthened by splicing two containers together, hence the none-too-convincing rust to try and conceal the joins. There were also large gaps around the (opening) doors that had to be filled. The blue factory paint is fading for some reason - presumably some reaction to my touching-up.

 

 

The Rowa model with the pale stripe (but not deeper - that will teach me to check the model first!)

 

[arran]

HI All

 

Some pics of the one that was in Elgin Yd for years.

 

Regards Arran

[Mark Saunders]

HI All

 

Some pics of the one that was in Elgin Yd for years.

 

Regards Arran

 

The CLV branding suggests "Bonded Traffic" possibly Whisky!

 

Mark Saunders

[Gibbo675]

HI All

 

Some pics of the one that was in Elgin Yd for years.

 

Regards Arran

Hi Arran,

 

Thank you very much for the photos, despite the faded paint they offer a much better angle of view and shew the lettering as it is, on the photo that I found it is indistinct.

 

Cheers,

 

Gibbo.

[Merfyn Jones]

HI All

 

Some pics of the one that was in Elgin Yd for years.

 

Regards Arran

 

 

I have seen pictures of them although none of my own. One I recall was in Elgin on a whiskey job, being loaded on a BR trailer. 

It would appear to be ex . Freightliner 20' box transfered to the general BR freight operation for places not served by Freightliner services.

However I may be wrong !

 

From my previous post, that's the one.

[Wickham Green]

 

I have seen pictures of them although none of my own. One I recall was in Elgin on a whiskey job, being loaded on a BR trailer. 

It would appear to be ex . Freightliner 20' box transfered to the general BR freight operation for places not served by Freightliner services.

However I may be wrong !

 

From my previous post, that's the one.

 

Harking back to earlier posts, it might, indeed have been in whiskey traffic if on an Irish Sea service ..... but at Elgin whisky is far more likely.

[hmrspaul]

Harking back to earlier posts, it might, indeed have been in whiskey traffic if on an Irish Sea service ..... but at Elgin whisky is far more likely.

Not sure what you are suggesting. The CLV fleet absorbed all sorts of different stock, containers and vans, many after redundancy from other use and that is almost certainly what has happened with this container. Removed from the Irish fleet for use within Scotland in bonded traffic. The separate Irish Sea fleet of containers doesn't seem to have survived as such for very long. Freightliner predates the development of ISO containers on maritime traffic but that developed very rapidly and Freightliner kept them as separately managed flows for many years - they were able to report on the size of the maritime container traffic vers the domestic. But, most of Freightliners own containers were for domestic traffics.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green]

Not sure what you are suggesting. The CLV fleet absorbed all sorts of different stock, containers and vans, many after redundancy from other use and that is almost certainly what has happened with this container. Removed from the Irish fleet for use within Scotland in bonded traffic. The separate Irish Sea fleet of containers doesn't seem to have survived as such for very long. Freightliner predates the development of ISO containers on maritime traffic but that developed very rapidly and Freightliner kept them as separately managed flows for many years - they were able to report on the size of the maritime container traffic vers the domestic. But, most of Freightliners own containers were for domestic traffics.

 

Paul

All I was suggesting  -  no that's not the right word  -  all I was trying to do was to remind our Welsh friend that a certain Scottish ( or perhaps that should be Scotch ) alcoholic beverage is spelled a little differently to the Irish equivalent ............................ I've no idea whether the Welsh version is double or triple distilled nor whether it has a 'e' or not, I'm afraid.

 

Apologies if that's totally off topic - obviously I'm in need of a dram !

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I am making progress with my Irish ferry containers, here they are on the early prototype container flats which carried two 20' boxes.

 

 

Here is a link to my other Freightliner based thread;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136308-freightliner-prototype-flat-wagon/

Edited August 11, 2018 by Gibbo675

[SED Freightman]

Having not, as far as I recall, seen a container with the blue, rather than red stripe, I got in touch with a former colleague who in times past, worked for Freightliner in Ireland and BR at Southampton, he responded as follows:-

 

"The blue striped ISO containers were prevalent on the Lo/Lo (lift on/lift off) service between Albert Johnson Quay, Portsmouth and the Channel Islands.  The service was operated by BR's Shipping & International Services Division, it commenced in 1972 when BR's conventional cargo service from Southampton Docks and Weymouth ceased to operate.  I believe the containers had full S&ISD lettering and BR symbol in white on the blue stripe, but cannot be 100% certain.  The containers were used on a Marine Service Circuit and probably did not see much use on the Freightliner rail network although they were fitted with ISO fastenings.  The Lo/Lo service was very much a roadbourne related activity and was short lived with the containers being stored out of use by 1977 prior to the creation of Sealink as a BR susiduary in 1979.  I do not know how the containers were disposed of post 1977.

 

With regard to the Irish Container Service, this was a Freightliner operation as most of the traffic used the Freightliner rail network at some stage of its journey, as far as I am aware the containers used all bore the red stripe livery.  Note that Freightliner was part of the National Freight Corporation from 1968 to August 1978 when it returned to BR control, whereas the S&ISD remained part of BR throughout."

 

I'm not sure how much this information helps to answer the original query, but it appears that, at least until 1977/8, containers with the blue stripe livery belonged to BR, whilst the far more numerous red striped versions belonged to the National Freight Corporation (Freightliner).  Is it possible that the BR containers were used on services other than to the Channel Islands, could they have been used for road/sea deliveries to the Scottish Isles for eaxmple ?

[Gibbo675]

Having not, as far as I recall, seen a container with the blue, rather than red stripe, I got in touch with a former colleague who in times past, worked for Freightliner in Ireland and BR at Southampton, he responded as follows:-

 

"The blue striped ISO containers were prevalent on the Lo/Lo (lift on/lift off) service between Albert Johnson Quay, Portsmouth and the Channel Islands.  The service was operated by BR's Shipping & International Services Division, it commenced in 1972 when BR's conventional cargo service from Southampton Docks and Weymouth ceased to operate.  I believe the containers had full S&ISD lettering and BR symbol in white on the blue stripe, but cannot be 100% certain.  The containers were used on a Marine Service Circuit and probably did not see much use on the Freightliner rail network although they were fitted with ISO fastenings.  The Lo/Lo service was very much a roadbourne related activity and was short lived with the containers being stored out of use by 1977 prior to the creation of Sealink as a BR susiduary in 1979.  I do not know how the containers were disposed of post 1977.

 

With regard to the Irish Container Service, this was a Freightliner operation as most of the traffic used the Freightliner rail network at some stage of its journey, as far as I am aware the containers used all bore the red stripe livery.  Note that Freightliner was part of the National Freight Corporation from 1968 to August 1978 when it returned to BR control, whereas the S&ISD remained part of BR throughout."

 

I'm not sure how much this information helps to answer the original query, but it appears that, at least until 1977/8, containers with the blue stripe livery belonged to BR, whilst the far more numerous red striped versions belonged to the National Freight Corporation (Freightliner).  Is it possible that the BR containers were used on services other than to the Channel Islands, could they have been used for road/sea deliveries to the Scottish Isles for eaxmple ?

Hi There,

 

Some excellent information from you there, your livery details described are as the container pictured above as posted by Arran. The channel islands workings are a new piece of the puzzle and would fit well with the way Irish traffic might have been worked, most of the photos I have seen have either been in the yards in Manchester on Irish / Holyhead bound trains as my own posting shews above or actually somewhere along the north Wales coast route.

The containers seem quite elusive on trains and your information points toward the reasons for this so I may have gone a bit mad painting four in this livery when one might have been plenty!

The other good thing to note is the dates of operation as my railway is intended to be Lancashire WCML in 1974.

 

Thanks again,

 

Gibbo.

[jessy1692]

Evening all, as part of my Freightliner projects inspired by @Gibbo675 's work, i had a go at a blue striper and created my own decals for it:

 

Decals were printed up on white backed paper with British Rail left in white using the 'British Rail' font i downloaded.

 

The numbers probably arnt right but itl do for me, i knocked up some data panels and red triangles too to add some extra details. 

 

Iv only got one blue striper and Gibbo has 4 so i made plenty up and sent some on for him yesterday, sounds like he'll be along shortly with his lot, looking forward to seeing the results on a small rake.

 

If i do some more ill edit the artwork so the stripes are the correct size for the Hornby containers, will make it easier to cut out for application. Happy to share the artwork or knock up a few more and send on if anyones intereststed. The blue is matched to rail match blue (RGB 0, 76 &76) and the font is size 20 on word if anyone wants a bash.

Cheers

James

Edited January 29, 2020 by jessy1692
Adding decal details

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here are my blue stripe boxes after the application of James' "British Rail"transfers ( @jessy1692 ), along with number transfers from Railtec and arrows from Model Master

There are two types of Hornby 20' box and the type I used have two flat panels within the moulding rather than the flat strip running the full length of the box where the coloured stripe is as with James' containers, for this reason I cut the wording out and applied them to the flat portion of the painted blue surface. There was slight cracking of the blue colour from the edges of the transfer which shewed white, once it was firmly attached and also fully dried out I touched in with a fine brush the white bits that were shewing, This actually helped hide the edge of the transfers as there was a fine white line of the backing film shewing so it was not a problem, I guess with the way James applied his transfers the fine edge would be hidden under the body side ribs.

 

All four of my Irish ferry service blue stripe boxes looking quite different to the more familiar red painted Freightliner boxes.

 

I have quite enjoyed the research and finding out about the various types of container of which there are tens of variations just emanating from the period that I model, and that is from just what BR produced and procured. Considering the livery of these boxes was unknown to me until about two years ago it just shews how much there is to find out with regard liveries carried upon all of the different types of containers produced. Rectangular boxes aren't quite as boring as I at first thought they were !

 

Many thanks to James' assistance in the production of the transfers that have helped me finish off my project.

 

We have further plans and ideas coming along with more in the pipeline for conversion and detailing of the Hornby container boxes such as Manchester Liners, OCL and possibly even Scotch beef for Sainsburys. After that the next container related project will be looking into the silver, yellow and green Speedfreight livery boxes some of which will require scratch built boxes, some conversions of Hornby boxes.

 

I shall tag onto the end of this thread all of the container box related work, perhaps modifying the title accordingly.

 

Gibbo.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Gibbo675

[BernardTPM]

About 35-40 years ago I painted up one of the Lima N Gauge containers in the original Liner train livery using the photos in a 1964 Transport Age magazine as a guide:

Edited February 9, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Gibbo675]

19 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

About 35-40 years ago I painted up one of the Lima N Gauge containers in the original Liner train livery using the photosin a 1964 Transport Age magazine as a guide:

Hi Bernard,

 

Thanks for that, as far as I can work out only a very few of this type of box ever carried this livery as they were built just before the grey with a red stripe livery was introduced. There were certainly some that were used on a demonstration train that was made up from the prototype Shildon built wagons that were developed into the FGA / FFA wagons.

 

Gibbo.

[jessy1692]

Heres a little project me and Gibbo have been working on for the last couple of weeks or so. After doing the branding for the blue stripe containers i thought i should be able to sort some transfers for some others. The above is the working doc to get sizes and colours right. The ML red has caused a bit of head scratching but i think iv settled on humbrol 60 for the red and 40 for the grey.

Now, does anybody know if there were real 30ft manchester liner and sainsburys scotch beef containers in the flat style as per Hornby? Only pics iv seen are 20fters. Any info greatly received!

 

Ill update progress on these early private containers as i get chance, hopefully soon will have the transfers sorted.

 

If anyone has any pics of early containers please post away.

Cheers

James

[markw]

There were both 20' and 30' versions of the Sainsbury's containers, often two 20' and one 30' per train.

Manchester Liners and OCL are unlikely to have used 30' containers.

[jessy1692]

30 minutes ago, markw said:

There were both 20' and 30' versions of the Sainsbury's containers, often two 20' and one 30' per train.

Manchester Liners and OCL are unlikely to have used 30' containers.

Cheers Mark, that helps a lot knowing Sainsburys did have 30fters.

Agreed on ML i dont think they had the flat sided 30fter, however, i think iv seen an OCL one in 30ft- but that may have been on the EMGauge 70s site. 

Ta for the info

James