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War Department Jinties


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Eight Jinties were requisitioned by the War Department and sent to France in 1940. Of these two disappeared, one was last seen in Berlin sporting Wermacht markings and five came back. A couple of years ago Hornby offered one of the latter, plastered with French inscriptions and LMS chalk marks, but seaching Google has so far failed to turn up any photies of the locos in WD service.

 

I assuming that they were in basic black, but how about the buffer beams? Were they black too?

 

The WD and broad arrow presumably went on the tank sides, but what about the numbers [8-15 inclusive]?

 

 

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post-898-0-41216700-1534111067_thumb.jpg

If it helps, here is OKH-In 10, (presumably former) WD No. 8, photographed in RAW Tempelhof, West Berlin in October 1953. Apparently it had a brake overhaul on May 5th, 1944 at Cottbus.

(not my photo, I found it and the description on the internet)

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Thanks, I'm familiar with this particular photie. Its ironic that the only surviving phhotie appears to be of the one captured by the other lot. Its also curious that the two versions of the figure 8 are far more prominent than the Wehrmacht markings. 

 

It does suggest though that the number was placed on the forward part of the cab, rather than a continuation of the WD logo, ie; WD 8. 

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I wonder if the OKH (ober kommand heeres) designation is a unit or area number, or the class designation, and the fleet number is ‘8’. The upper of the two ‘8’ certainly seems to have ‘No’ or ‘Nr’ in front of it.

 

A fleet number might be applied by the local unit/depot to which it was allocated, and be changed if it was reallocated.

 

None of which helps for a WD one!

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I wonder if the OKH (ober kommand heeres) designation is a unit or area number, or the class designation, and the fleet number is ‘8’. The upper of the two ‘8’ certainly seems to have ‘No’ or ‘Nr’ in front of it.

 

A fleet number might be applied by the local unit/depot to which it was allocated, and be changed if it was reallocated.

 

None of which helps for a WD one!

 

Well actually I think that it might.

 

Looking at one of Bill Aves' books on WW1 military railways last night there seems to have been a practice of sticking the fleet number on the forward side sheet of the cab with a small WD above it - a practice which also crops up on Austerity tanks. There could also be a much larger WD on the tank sides.

 

In terms of the Boche one the word Wehrmacht may therefore have been overpainted on the WD above the uncircled figure 8

 

[the assumption being that it retained the original WD number after capture]

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Interesting.

 

I read what I think as the unit number as OKH-??? 10 

 

If it was possible to decipher the first part of the unit number, it would probably be possible to pin-down the unit, because I think there are listings on-line. The unit number is usually rendered in two parts, and the first part is sometimes in gothic script. if it is 'L' or 'ln', I think that means Landesschutzen, which I think was the equivalent of the Home Guard.

Edited by Nearholmer
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According to Tourret's 'Allied Military Locos Of WW2', 8(7613),13(7663), and 15(7617) were destroyed by the retreating BEF then pitched over the quayside at (quote) 'some channel port'. All 5 returned to Derby August/September 1948, shopped and returned to traffic in the October - December; 14(7589) came back to England fitted with a chimney from a Dean Goods 0-6-0. Another 6 were earmarked to go to France, but the defeat of France came about just before they went.

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According to Tourret's 'Allied Military Locos Of WW2', 8(7613),13(7663), and 15(7617) were destroyed by the retreating BEF then pitched over the quayside at (quote) 'some channel port'. All 5 returned to Derby August/September 1948, shopped and returned to traffic in the October - December; 14(7589) came back to England fitted with a chimney from a Dean Goods 0-6-0. Another 6 were earmarked to go to France, but the defeat of France came about just before they went.

 

Yes, but as the photie kindly posted above by Corbs clearly shows one of the "destroyed" ones survived to turn up in Berlin. I'd rather assumed that they were destroyed by depositing a Mills grenade in the firebox, but if they were just run off the end of the quay presumably the Boche fished them out again and No.8 may not have been the only survivor

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iirc, the French designation for these locos was 030TW. Perhaps a Google search will throw up some photos.

 

There's an H.C. Casserley photo of 030TW27, aka LMS 7589/WD No14, complete with GWR chimney at Derby in September 1948, which appears in Brian Haresnape's 'Fowler Locomotives' book.

 

It's hard to tell any significant livery details, as the loco is in a fairly shabby state, as you'd expect, and the tanksides carry a fair amount of graffiti (a cartoon face and the name 'Charlie something I can't quite decipher'), and I can't see any obvious trace of the WD identity.

 

The French number appears to be carried in small lettering on the bunker. The word 'London' is also clearly stencilled on the tankside ahead of the cab doorway, maybe part of a shipping instruction from it's return to the UK? There's also some small writing below this, but I can't make out whether that's more graffiti or anything 'official'.

Edited by Invicta
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The word 'London' is also clearly stencilled on the tankside ahead of the cab doorway, maybe part of a shipping instruction from it's return to the UK? 

They were all sent separately to Cricklewood shed, when all together they were sent onwards 'en-masse' to Derby works. 

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  • 3 years later...
On 12/08/2018 at 22:58, Corbs said:

post-898-0-41216700-1534111067_thumb.jpg

If it helps, here is OKH-In 10, (presumably former) WD No. 8, photographed in RAW Tempelhof, West Berlin in October 1953. Apparently it had a brake overhaul on May 5th, 1944 at Cottbus.

(not my photo, I found it and the description on the internet)

 

And apparently a coat of Zimmerit. 

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