SECR wagon livery

[corneliuslundie]

I posted this in the modelling questions section but got no response (perhaps because I quoyed the wrong diagram number!). You lot are more erudite,. Can anyone help?

I have completed a D&S kit for an SECR Diagram 1422 van. It is distinctive in that it has three vertical panels each side of the doors.

I want livery appropriate to 1912 which really means SE&CR rather than SECR.

But where should it go?

There are a few photos of these vans in the SECR wagons book but none is any help.

Jonathan

[Guy Rixon]

1912 is the end of the Wainwright period, so one would expect the small company letters placed on the lower left of the side and the wagon number at the bottom right, in numerals of similar height to the company initials. On open wagons, these are on the lowest plank so that they show beneath a wagon sheet. On a van, I don't know exactly where they would be painted, but I suspect they might be carried on the framing. This may be a problem if you are using the Fox transfers as they will probably not fit. I'd also expect the wagon number to be repeated between the end posts, but I think these vans had four posts at each end which makes placing the numbers tricky.

 

On the solebar, over the LH axlebox, would appear To Carry 10.0.0 or whatever was the rated load, and Tare 7.5.0 or whatever weight over the RH axlebox.  

 

If the van has oil-lubricated journals (some did, but they also had coach-size wooden wheels and long springs in shackles), then it will have the legend Oil on the solebar over each box and the weights legends will have to be moved to accommodate this.

 

You really need a photo to get it exactly right. I have a few photos of SECR wagons that are not in the standard reference and I will look through those after work.

[whart57]

There is a good photo of a very similar Diagram 1424 van in Vol 3 of a History of Southern Wagons. This was (according to the caption) a repaint in 1909 so would seem to fit your period. On this photograph the company initials and van number are small in size and are on the second plank up inside the framing. The number is to the right of the doors in the middle panel, the company initials are to the left - S E in the left most panel, & C in the middle and R on its own in the right hand panel.

 

As Guy Rixon has already stated, the load is stated over the left hand axle box but the tare may not be over the right hand axle box as it may be obscured by the brake handle. If that is the case then it would be painted on the solebar a little further towards the centre.

 

A few months ago I did the art work for 3mm scale transfers for the SECR in the Wainwright period, and that is how I prepared lettering for this type of van.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks to both of you for very helpful answers. I had looked through all the photos and had missed this one because is Diagram 1424 and because of the doors - assuming that it must be a special traffic van of some kind. I am using HMRS transfers so can add the letters individually in the relevant panels, the positioning of which which was the real issue. My version has 3 ft 1 in spoked wheels, no vacuum brakes etc so none of the complications. 

I note a mention of white roofs - not presumably after a few years in service.

If you live long enough you might see a photo of the model posted here.

Jonathan

[Regularity]

Have you contacted SECSOC directly, or indeed the relevant HMRS steward?

[corneliuslundie]

As it happens I need to contact the HMRS Steward about something else so I may mention the subject. If RMWeb failed I was going to ask him anyway. But it rarely fails.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

There is a good photo of a very similar Diagram 1424 van in Vol 3 of a History of Southern Wagons. This was (according to the caption) a repaint in 1909 so would seem to fit your period. On this photograph the company initials and van number are small in size and are on the second plank up inside the framing. The number is to the right of the doors in the middle panel, the company initials are to the left - S E in the left most panel, & C in the middle and R on its own in the right hand panel.

 

As Guy Rixon has already stated, the load is stated over the left hand axle box but the tare may not be over the right hand axle box as it may be obscured by the brake handle. If that is the case then it would be painted on the solebar a little further towards the centre.

 

A few months ago I did the art work for 3mm scale transfers for the SECR in the Wainwright period, and that is how I prepared lettering for this type of van.

 

As it happens I need to contact the HMRS Steward about something else so I may mention the subject. If RMWeb failed I was going to ask him anyway. But it rarely fails.

Jonathan

 

Apologies, I missed this whilst away, but had just replied to your post in the Modelling Questions section.  Essentially whart57 has already said most of what I have just posted, but for completeness:

 

Vol. 3 of the Southern Wagons series says that the SE&CR produced lettering diagrams for its wagons and that HMRS has these in relation to a number of diagrams.  As the placement of the SE&CR is not reproduced in the book in the case of Dia. 1422, this might indicate that a lettering diagram is not available for this type, but it might be worth checking. Having said that, I may be speaking out of turn, as it was probably the first thing you thought of!

 

Failing discovery of a photograph or lettering diagram for this livery as applied to a D1422, my suggestion would be to letter it as per the example of the D1424 (1909 repaint at plate 103). This shows the  S and E in the first panel, the & and C in the second and the R in the third. The book says that letter size could be adjusted where necessary, and it might be that you need slightly smaller letters to fit.