Ruston Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) I have been planning for a new layout for around 6 months. I say planning but it's really more mulling over ideas as there is as yet no trackplan. Baseboards have been ordered so I know the size of the layout but that's about all. I always try to plan, whether using pencil and paper, or computer-based systems such as Anyrail, but I can never really get on with any of them. The only way is to get the baseboards and some track and start suffling the track and points aound. As always it is fictional industrial companies and, in this case, a railway, but situated in a specific area and with industries that did operate in that area. In this case we're in the Calder Valley in an area north of of the Calder between Elland and Brighouse, up to Hipperholme, east of Halifax. The period is flexible from the 1880s up to the First World War. The changes will be in locomotives, rolling stock, figures and, in the later period, the addition of motor vehicles. This small area, in the modelled period, provided a wealth of industries that could be connected to a mineral/light railway, including coal mines,, clay mines, stone ,mines & quarries,, brick and pipe works, dye works and mills. In fact at the northern end of the proposed area, at Lightcliffe was Brookes' Nonslip Stone and chemical works but as this would be on a higher level, on top of Hove Edge than my fictional railway they wouldn't be connected. The CVMR would have run into the L&Y at Elland station. Edited September 10, 2022 by Ruston 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) On 09/08/2018 at 16:55, Ruston said: I have been planning for a new layout for around 6 months. I say planning but it's really more mulling over ideas as there is as yet no trackplan. Baseboards have been ordered so I know the size of the layout but that's about all. I always try to plan, whether using pencil and paper, or computer-based systems such as Anyrail, but I can never really get on with any of them. The only way is to get the baseboards and some track and start suffling the track and points aound. As always it is fictional industrial companies and, in this case, a railway, but situated in a specific area and with industries that did operate in that area. In this case we're in the Calder Valley in an area north of of the Calder between Elland and Brighouse, up to Hipperholme, east of Halifax. The period is flexible from the 1880s up to the First World War. The changes will be in locomotives, rolling stock, figures and, in the later period, the addition of motor vehicles. This small area, in the modelled period, provided a wealth of industries that could be connected to a mineral/light railway, including coal mines,, clay mines, stone ,mines & quarries,, brick and pipe works, dye works and mills. In fact at the northern end of the proposed area, at Lightcliffe was Brookes' Nonslip Stone and chemical works but as this would be on a higher level, on top of Hove Edge than my fictional railway they wouldn't be connected. The CVMR would have run into the L&Y at Elland station. I am a major fan of your work!! We know the highly eclectic and beautifully built stud of this project, I wait with high anticipation to see the layout!! One of my oldest friends, Graham, lives in Halifax. I know the area that this layout will be based in. Musically, go and have a listen to 'The Testament Of Patience Kershaw' by The Unthanks. Halifax Mining!!!! I have a feeling that Non-slip Stone had a lovely 0-6-0 Peckett working on their site. Now I'll go and get my coat!!! Chris. Edited September 10, 2022 by Ruston Removal of redundant links in quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore43grm Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 hi there just to wet the appetites one of several Pecketts from the Brookes era Russ missing photo now attached Russ 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Looking good Dave. I used to visit Brookfoot Industrial Estate during the easily forgotten period of my life when I had to go out to w**k and thought then that the location ought to have some rails in it. An old colleague of mine told me that his Father worked as Sales Manager for Brookes and sold their product for use in the Mersey Tunnel. His reward for getting such a large contract was to have the rest of the day off - all 45mins of it! Edited August 9, 2018 by 5050 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 missing photo now attached Russ Lovely little engine!!! Marvellous shade of almost Brunswick Green from memory!!! She looks bigger than she was . Put her up against a 16tonner and you realise her true size. Tiiny wheels, big torque!!! I don't know Peckett types, but I'd love a model of her!! As if I need yet another industrial tank engine!!!!! Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the interest, chaps. This isn't going to feature Brookes' works at all but some of the industries will be the same. Only the nonslip stone, which was a manufactured block flagstone and kerbstone product, that used Silex stone and cement, won't feature at all. The planned traffic will be stone and coal coming down from the mines and quarries that are off-scene as through traffic to the L&Y and obviously empties to return up the line. The type of stone in this area was used for building stone, flagstones, kerb stones and roofing. The so-called Silex stone was often used in staircases in mills.The coal mines around here mostly produced coal along with stone and clay, the coal being used to fire the kilns of brick and pipe works but I am going to use my modeller's licence to allow excess production to be sold as any other coalmine would. Other through traffic will be tank wagons, to the dye works, which I presume would not be manufacturing dye but would be dyring wool for the textile industry. After all, this is just outside what was known as the Heavy Woollen District. The occasional gunpowder van will make an appearance to serve the mines and quarries up the line. internal traffic will be coal to the pipe works that will be on the scenic section itself and also clay, carried in ship canal-type wagons. There may also be a passenger service. There was never a direct rail connection from Hipperholme to Brighouse, so I am going to use this as an excuse to run passenger services, using some suitably old second hand coaches. Prototype investigation. In 2010 I found my way into one of the abandoned coal and clay mines in the area, Exact location and the identities of those involved witheld, as is the way with those of us involved in illicit mine-exploring. The clay layer is from the floor to about 18 inches then coal, topped with stone. Oak-framed and bodied tub, almost buried in a roof fall. Abandoned mines can be dangerous places, so don't try this at home, kids! Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2018 the easily forgotten period of my life when I had to go out to w**kWell, if I had to go outside for that, I’d want to forget about it.And the criminal record which would have followed if caught doing that outdoors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Thanks for the interest, chaps. This isn't going to feature Brookes' works at all but some of the industries will be the same. Only the nonslip stone, which was a manufactured block flagstone and kerbstone product, that used Silex stone and cement, won't feature at all. The planned traffic will be stone and coal coming down from the mines and quarries that are off-scene as through traffic to the L&Y and obviously empties to return up the line. The type of stone in this area was used for building stone, flagstones, kerb stones and roofing. The so-called Silex stone was often used in staircases in mills.The coal mines around here mostly produced coal along with stone and clay, the coal being used to fire the kilns of brick and pipe works but I am going to use my modeller's licence to allow excess production to be sold as any other coalmine would. Other through traffic will be tank wagons, to the dye works, which I presume would not be manufacturing dye but would be dyring wool for the textile industry. After all, this is just outside what was known as the Heavy Woollen District. The occasional gunpowder van will make an appearance to serve the mines and quarries up the line. internal traffic will be coal to the pipe works that will be on the scenic section itself and also clay, carried in ship canal-type wagons. There may also be a passenger service. There was never a direct rail connection from Hipperholme to Brighouse, so I am going to use this as an excuse to run passenger services, using some suitably old second hand coaches. Prototype investigation. In 2010 I found my way into one of the abandoned coal and clay mines in the area, Exact location and the identities of those involved witheld, as is the way with those of us involved in illicit mine-exploring. Coalmineexplore-002.jpg The clay layer is from the floor to about 18 inches then coal, topped with stone. rh-020.jpg Oak-framed and bodied tub, almost buried in a roof fall. Coalmineexplore-019.jpg Abandoned mines can be dangerous places, so don't try this at home, kids! The traffic scenario for the layout is mouthwatering! The shots of the mine are fascinating!! C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Well, if I had to go outside for that, I’d want to forget about it. And the criminal record which would have followed if caught doing that outdoors... Yet another 4-letter word beginning with 'W'. Anyway, I've always spelled it including an 'H' for some reason.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2018 Yet another 4-letter word beginning with 'W'. Anyway, I've always spelled it including an 'H' for some reason.............. What, Hank? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) I'm still waiting for the baseboards that were supposed to be here more than a fortnight ago. So, I have been making wagons. I was kindly given half a dozen Slaters kits for Midland 3-plank dropside wagons and have made them into private owners for the new layout. Both Woodhead and Pond Quarry are real companies in Hipperholme but are of the present day. Some have been converted to dumb-buffered types by hacking down the headstocks and grafting blocks of plasticard on the ends. L&Y Diagram 3 covered wagon, built from David Geen whitemetal kit. The tarpaulin cover is made from a tissue. And this what I believe is an Iron Mink (on the right). I thought it was a gunpowder van when I bought it as a kit but I'm not so sure. It was from a bring and buy stall, at an exhibition and had no instructions with it. It is whitemetal and I think it may be an ABS model. The one on the left is a Slaters Midland coke wagon that I was given as a half-built kit, minus buffers and wheels. The buffers have come from one of the 3-planks that has been converted to dumb buffers. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) And this what I believe is an Iron Mink (on the right). I thought it was a gunpowder van when I bought it as a kit but I'm not so sure. It was from a bring and buy stall, at an exhibition and had no instructions with it. It is whitemetal and I think it may be an ABS model. Not sure of the provenance, but IIRC gunpowder vans had different doors and square corners. Definitely an iron mink.Edit: linked image file to Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway site: Edit #2: Iron mink as improvised GPV for WW2 - note the different doors: http://www.gwr813.org/pagew59.html Edited August 12, 2018 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) Thanks, Simon. Do you know what period the subject of my model would have been, and what colour it should be painted? I'm sure I've read somewhere about some of them being red but I don't know if that's the same type and the period I'm modelling I don't know. Other than red, would it be black or dark grey? Edited August 12, 2018 by Ruston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2018 Dave, they were long lived. A few lasted in general service use into the early 50s, but they were on their last legs. Let me put the question the other way round: what era will the model be appearing in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2018 Red: as built until no one is 100% sure. Might be 1896/7, might be 1892. Then dark grey all over (7 parts black, 1 part white, but it faded lighter): if any made it to BR days, they were unlikely to have been repainted into a fresh coat of unfitted grey. Lettering: Whilst red, quite small: 5” as G.W.R 1897-1904, cast plates, or 5” lettering. 1904-1920 (ish), 25” was the standard but on iron minis my well have been 16”, which was then adopted generally until 1936, when 5” GW was adopted. Of course, date ranges reflect the practice for new builds and full repaints: wagons went a lot longer than (most) locos and coaches before they saw a paint brush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Thanks for that. The time period is as stated in my OP - 1880 until the First World War, changeable through that period by altering rolling stock, figures and road traffic etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) That covers the three major changes: 5” lettering on red, then grey with either 5” lettering or small plates, then 16” (for the mink). Iron oxide primer works well enough for the red - no one actually knows. I think that it was red lead over (the grey was all over) but others go go for black or dark grey below the solebar. I backdated an old S scale model some years back. It now belongs to Maurice Hopper of this parish, but I may have it on a photo somewhere. Will see what I can dig out... Edit: not a good shot - can’t see any lettering, including the number on the end (I didn’t know about it then!), but here it is running on East Lynn. Edited April 12, 2019 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The upper, square cornered van in Regularity's posting is a later Z2 van. The Iron Mink-like van in the lower picture formed the massive majority of gunpowder vans and would be correct for your period. As well as the GWR, most of the Welsh railways and even the LSWR used them. ABS do indeed make a kit. I've read one reliable source that stated the Cambrian's gunpowder vans were painted red and another, equally reliable source who stated they were painted black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Thanks, Mike and Simon. I have been given some GW letters, by 5050 Paul, so I will do it as an ordinary Iron Mink. If I can get hold of another David Geen L&Y Diagram 3 van I will use that as a gunpowder van. There is a photo of one in Lancashire & Yorkshire Wagons Vol.1. It has no roof hatch and is lettered along the side "SPECIAL GUNPOWDER VAN", which can easily be made using decal paper as it is either black or red lettering on a white background. Better to have another van from the home team that a foreign one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) And so it begins... Fitting brackets to the garage wall and checking the levels with a laser. The first scenic section under construction. The end isn't fixed in this shot. I wanted to check the loading gauge of the hole into the fiddleyard before it is fixed in place. I ought to have specified a little more height as I forgot about oddities such as this, with their very tall chimneys. It does clear it but it won't if I put the track on cork at this point. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted August 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2018 When he built “Wicken” (MRJ 10), Trevor Nunn forgot to allow for the height of the trackbed and tack, so consequently the overbridge which hid the exit/entrance to/from the fiddle yard was to a somewhat restricted loading gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 So the boards have arrived then! I'm going to start taking bets on how quick you get this layout finished. More or less than a month guys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 I think it's going to take a bit longer than that. I found this set of photos on flickr - https://www.flickr.com/photos/b3tarev3/sets/72157616993636482/ That is the sort of pipe works that I'll be basing mine on. The works in those shots is the Ashgrove works of W.T. Knowles, between Elland and Brighouse. It is still in business and still using those ancient beehive kilns. Sytrex do a one-piece resin casting for these and I have a couple put away. http://skytrexmodelrailways.com/12-brick-kiln 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 And so it begins... I wanted to check the loading gauge of the hole into the fiddleyard before it is fixed in place. I ought to have specified a little more height as I forgot about oddities such as this, with their very tall chimneys. It does clear it but it won't if I put the track on cork at this point. CVMR-002.jpg I do like that loco but I can't help feeling that the weather shield and spectacle glasses are a touch superfluous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 I do like that loco but I can't help feeling that the weather shield and spectacle glasses are a touch superfluous They shouldn't really be there but when I built the model I had only a side view drawing to work from. I have since seen a photo that shows that it didn't have a weatherboard at all. Build and photo here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128166-boultons-number-11/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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