The Calder Vale Mineral Railway

[Caledonian]

They shouldn't really be there but when I built the model I had only a side view drawing to work from. I have since seen a photo that shows that it didn't have a weatherboard at all. Build and photo here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128166-boultons-number-11/

 

 What a splendid build thread, thanks for directing me to it. Lovely little loco. 

[Ruston]

The boards are almost done. As you can see, it is in the style of what Iain Rice would call a "Cameo Layout". The far fiddle yard is 2ft. long, the scenic section 8ft and the near fiddle yard is 3ft.

 

The fascias are slotted in place temporarily and won't actually be screwed on until much later so they don't get in the way whilst I'm tracklaying, ballasting etc. The fiddle yard board at the near end isn't in place yet as I have to take part of a corner cupboard down and move some electrical sockets that are on the wall.

 

 

The boards are supported by brackets on the wall, as shown in the first post on the previous page. I have made a frame that is screwed on to the brackets for the boards to sit on.

 

 

And now to the planning. Obviously I already have some ideas in mind otherwise I wouldn't have had holes already cut in the ends of the boards.

The track in the centre will be the "main line". The track with the train on will be on a gradient rising away from the camera. The line willreverse at the point where the turnout is and will continue to rise so that it crosses over the "main line".

 

The problem is that it has to climb at least 6cm to do this and the gradient will be too severe, so I am planning to make another hole in the end of the board for the reversing neck. That will put the turnout further back and so ease the gradient.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

I have made no progress on this. This week I have visited three model shops, two that are within 5 miles of my home and another within 25 miles. I went to buy some rail and points. The points that I wanted were PECO "finescale" code 75 variety. In all three shops it was almost as if I was in the Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch.

 

Good Morning!

 

Good Morning, Sir! Welcome to the Model Railway Track Emporium.

 

Thank you, my good man.

 

What can I do for you, Sir?

 

Well, I am planning a new layout and need some permanent way materials so I sallied forth, and infiltrated your place of purveyance in order to negotiate the vending of some Ready-To-Run scale model railway switches and crosings.

 

Switches and crossings, Sir?

 

Turnouts.

 

Eh?

 

Ee, I want to buy some code 75 electrofrog points!

 

Oh, I thought you were complaining about the bouzouki player.

 

Heaven forbid! I am one who delights in all manifestations of the Terpesichorean muse.

 

Sorry?

 

Ooh, I like a nice tune, yer forced to!

 

So he can go on playing can he?

 

Most certainly. Now then, the points, please, my good man.

 

Certainly, Sir, which would you like?

 

Two SLE-191 right-hand turnouts, please.

 

I'm afraid we're all out of SLE-191, Sir.

 

Never mind, how are you on SLE-192 left-handers?

 

I'm afraid we never have those at the end of the week, Sir. We get them fresh from PECO on a Monday.

 

Tish. Well, no matter, Stout Yeoman. A pair of SLE-195 right hand turnouts, if you please.

 

Ah, they've been on order for a month and we're expecting them on Monday.

 

Not my day, is it? Aah, Code 75 bullhead flexitrack?

 

Not much call for it round these parts, Sir.

 

An SLE-193 crossing, if you please.

 

Not today, Sir, no.

 

How about an SLE-180 single slip switch?

 

No.

 

SLE-198 lef-hand turnout?

 

No

 

SLE-1095 code 75right-hand turnouts, perhance?

 

Yes, we do have some SLE-1095, Sir.

 

You do! Excellent!

 

Yes, Sir. They're slightly taller than usual.

 

Never mind, bring forth the SLE-1095s!

 

I think they're a lot taller than you'd expect.

 

Fetch hither the code 75 points.

 

They're very tall. Sir.

 

[places Code 100 point on counter]

 

But I asked for Code 75

 

It's almost the same, Sir.

 

No, it's not, it's twenty five ###### thousandths of an inch different.

 

You could file it down, Sir.

 

Look, my man, do you in fact have any Code 75 points?

 

Of course, Sir, it's a model railway track shop. We've got...

 

No, no, don't tell me, I'm keen to guess.

 

Fair enough.

 

SLE-185 catch point?

 

No

 

SLE-187 curved turnout?

 

No

 

SLE-197 Wye?

 

Yes?

 

Excellent! I'll have two of those!

 

Oh, I thought you mean me, Sir. Mister Wye; that's my name.

 

This isn't much of a Model Railway Track Emporium, is it?

 

Finest in the district, Sir.

 

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion.

 

Well, it's so clean, Sir.

 

It's certainly uncontaminated by code 75 points.

 

You haven't asked me about SLE-199 three-way points, Sir.

 

Would it be worth it?

 

Could be

 

Have you... SHUT THAT BLOODY BAZOUKI UP!

 

Told you, Sir.

 

Have you got an SLE-199 three-way point?

 

No

 

Predictable really, I suppose. It was an act of purest optimism to have posed the question in the first place., Tell me...

 

Yes, Sir?

 

Have you in fact got any Code 75 electrofrog points at all?

 

Yes, Sir.

 

Really?

 

No, Sir, Not really.

 

You haven't.

 

No, Sir, not a single one. Everyone round here is a muppet and can't wire up electrofrogs. I've been deliberately wasting your time.

 

Well, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to shoot you.

 

 

 

 

"We did stock them but there's not much call for them". "We don't keep them but we can get them in for you but it won't be until we next send an order in to PECO". "I've never been asked for them and  I don't stock PECO points anyway". Really? So everyone is either a proper finescale modeller, who hand builds their own track, or is a trainset roundy-roundy guy, who still buys that insulfrog code 100 stuff and PECO have wasted their time and money investing in code 75?  I thought that insulfrog stuff went out with the Ark but apparently not. I guess that wiring a live frog is too much for most people!

 

So much for supporting your local model shop! it looks like Hattons will be getting my business now and in future.

 

[mike morley]

I'm still trying to get beyond the opening line.  Two model shops within 5 miles and a third within 25?  Coo!  How the other half lives!!!

[5050]

We used to have a shop that sold everything including a full range of Peco - and if they were still open I'm 100% convinced they would have stocked Bullhead, Code 75, Code 83 etc. etc. plus rail to match if you wanted to build your own.  Sadly it's gorn!  But It was due to retirement rather than lack customers I'm sure.

 

Dave, I won't tell you again - build your own!  It's not difficult especially for a man of your talents.  I'll teach you and once you've made one you'll wonder why you've never done it before.

 

Honest!

[Caledonian]

I'm still trying to get beyond the opening line.  Two model shops within 5 miles and a third within 25?  Coo!  How the other half lives!!!

 

Until a couple of years ago I was in that happy position, then Modelzone [9 miles] went belly up and within 12 months both independents [2 miles and 1 mile] retired. 

[Ruston]

Dave, I won't tell you again - build your own!  It's not difficult especially for a man of your talents.  I'll teach you and once you've made one you'll wonder why you've never done it before.

 

Honest!

 I didn't want to be a P.W. modeller; wittering on about sleeper spacings, and radii .

 

I wanted to be a Lumberjack!

 

Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia etc. etc.

[Osgood]

Yep - that's where the sleepers originate from.......

[Ruston]

I now have a plan.

I have decided against the reversing neck. It wasn't really necessary and wouldn't have looked right. With the track to the higher level going up without reversing it makes the gradient steeper but it opens up the view of the railway running alongside the canal. The gradient up to the viaduct will be about 1 in 18, which is steep but not as steep as the line that left the L&Y siding into Brookes' works, as mentioned on the previous page. That was a 1 in 14 and within the works itself was a 1 in 9!

[NHY 581]

This looks like the game's afoot, young man.

 

Very fetching.

 

 

Rob.

[5050]

 I didn't want to be a P.W. modeller; wittering on about sleeper spacings, and radii .

 

I wanted to be a Lumberjack!

 

Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia etc. etc.

Just like Michael Palin......................?

 

Track plan looks OK to me.  Plenty of movements possible - and I do like a nice gradient.  It's surprising what grade a well weighted loco can manage with a few wagons.

Edited August 26, 2018 by 5050

[Ruston]

Some progress has been made.

Lots of waste corrugated cardboard that came as packing for the baseboard kit, and a newspaper, along with some PVA glue and a tin of gloss paint have gone to make the embankment up to the start point of the viaduct and the hillside at the other side of the trackbed.

 

I also acquired a nice RTP building that will be repainted and used as the workshop.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[NeilHB]

Excellent progress Dave!

[Ruston]

And a little more card, PVA and paint.

 

The above is the reason that the gradient has to be so steep. I want to be able to run the weird and wonderful engines from I.W. Boulton's stable on here. No.11 (pictured above) is the tallest engine that I have and so the loading gauge needs to accommodate this. It will just fit under the viaduct, where normal locomotives will have plenty of clearance.

 

No track has been laid as yet but I must now think about how to operate the points on the upper level. If I use under-baseboard solenoids I will have to cut out rough apertures to get at the underneath of the trackbed and future maintenance will be awkward. If I put them above trackbed level they will dictate the position of buildings to hide them. I'm thinking about purely mechanical systems that can incoporate a microswitch for frog polarity but have no real idea what to do about it at the moment.

 

With the lower level also carrying a passenger service I am going to need signals and so I want them to work and to be interlocked so that points cannot be changed and sections be powered until the correct signals are pulled off. Microswitches are the answer here but it's all going to depend on the method used to change the points first of all...

 

In the top photo you will see the railway manager's house. This is an RTP item from Bachmann and sold as Hampton House. It's the octagaonal tower on the corner that attracted me and I can imagine the manager being able to keep an eye on the railway station, workshops and engine shed from his study. I know it's cheating to buy these things but some of them are really very good and I couldn't make a building as complex as that as good. They can be expensive but I got this and the workshop for just under half the RRP so I can't complain.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

This bit is rather dull but is important for future reliability.

 

Peco give instructions to remove a pair of wires on the underside of points if you wish to independently switch the polarity of the frog and not rely only on the contact made by the blades. I can't imagine anyone wanting to rely only on the contact of the blades but I like to go one step further than removing the wires.

I put the feed wires across the stock rails and the the fixed part of what becomes the blades but as the blades themselves rely on a friction contact, where the tags that hold them in at the pivot point are, I always feel that this could be affected over time by the surfaces becoming tarnished, not to mention dirt, paint and glue from ballasting getting in the way. So I solder wires to the tags, which ensures electrical contact. One down, six more to go.

 

I have decided to fit SEEP solenoids to change the points. I have used them on my last three layouts and they have been very reliable. The only part that isn't always reliable is the built in polarity switch so I am going to make up some sort of adaptor plates that will stand the solenoid bases off the baseboard and in these adaptors will be a plunger that will operate a microswitch for frrog polarity. The built in switch will be used for a less vital role of switching a light on the control panel ti indicate which route the point is set for.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[5050]

I said it would only take you a couple of weeks - and I was almost right!

 

Great work so far.

[Ruston]

I said it would only take you a couple of weeks - and I was almost right!

 

Great work so far.

Hmmm... I haven't got very far at all really. I was going to make a start on the bases for the solenoids but I can't do that until I get my hands on some microswitches. I was going to lay some track on the gradient but I've now got this crackpot idea of laying steel plate under the track and gluing magnets under the engines to increase haulage capacity on the 1 in 18. Most of the scratch and kit-built engines should be OK but the Hornby Pecketts and the Hattons Barclay will struggle to take 4 wagons up that.

 

Basically, I can't lay track there until I decide whether or not to try this idea and if I do I need some magnets and steel plate.

[Caledonian]

Has anybody actually done a comparison of the respective haulage abilities of the Peckett and the Barclay - or the L&Y puggie for that matter?

[mike morley]

Is there not a danger that a magnet strong enough to make a difference would also be strong enough to interfere with the motor?

[Regularity]

Back to Triang's "Magnadhesion" of yore, where the magnets would pick up any stray steel track pins and wedge them between the wheel and the chassis block, with a 50% chance that it wedged between the magnet and the insulated wheel, causing a short.

[Ruston]

Has anybody actually done a comparison of the respective haulage abilities of the Peckett and the Barclay - or the L&Y puggie for that matter?

The Barclays weigh just 125g and the Peckett marginally more at 129g. The old L&Y pug I have no idea of the weight as mine is currently in bits waiting for me to build the High Level chassis that I have stased away. Before I dismantled it it would barely run at all and that was a brand new model! I haven't weighed it but it's all plastic with the exception of a small chunk of metal in the boile/saddletank so I'll wager it's under 100g.

 

On the 1 in 16 on Nant-Y-Mynydd the Pecketts could manage only three modern RTR wagons (4 with some wheelslip) so the Barclay should do the same but as for the pug, I wouldn't expect it could haul itself up as an out-of-the-box model, never mind hauling a load.

[Ruston]

Is there not a danger that a magnet strong enough to make a difference would also be strong enough to interfere with the motor?

I have no idea. I hadn't thought about it. The idea isn't mine; there's a product called "Powerbase", from DCC Concepts.From what I can tell it's a set of painted, or coated, steel or iron plates that go under the track, plus some rectangular neodymium magnets that are fitted under the locomotives.

 

My version will use old hacksaw blades and neodymium magnets. I have seen some for sale on the interwebs of 10x5x2mm that supposedly exert a pull of 0.85kg when in contact with the surface of whatever ferrous metal surface that you stick them to, At maybe up to half an inch away I'd expect the pull is not as much but even if it's only a quarter of that, a pair of magnets under a loco could exert a pull of 400g, perhaps? Who knows?  I haven't a clue about the science of all this but as it's under a fiver for 20 magnets and even new cheap hacksaw blades are very cheap it's probably worth experimenting. If it doesn't work then I've got several hacksaw blades to use as intended and the magnets can be used for other things, I'm sure.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Ruston

[Osgood]

I quite like the idea - and the centrally mounted magnets would act as a useful ferrous crud clean-up device too, an occasional wipe and that's it.

 

Might cause a bit of unwanted judder over steel track points though 

[Caledonian]

The Barclays weigh just 125g and the Peckett marginally more at 129g. The old L&Y pug I have no idea of the weight as mine is currently in bits waiting for me to build the High Level chassis that I have stased away. Before I dismantled it it would barely run at all and that was a brand new model! I haven't weighed it but it's all plastic with the exception of a small chunk of metal in the boile/saddletank so I'll wager it's under 100g.

 

 

Just over 100g according to my kitchen scales - but less than 110g. Performance of all three of mine is acceptable [one needed a lot of fettling and still has a tendency to wobble] though the Peckett and Barclay are superior. I've not yet done any serious testing but feel that the Peckett is the better of the two

[Ruston]

The idea of magnets and strips of steel on the bank has been abandoned. Rather than experiment with it I thought it better to find out if it was actually necessary, so I laid a length of track on the trackbed and attached a controller via wires and crocodile clips. The obvious choice to try out first was the Hattons Barclay as it is the lightest and I'm pleased to say that it propelled 6 kit-built open wagons up without slpping.

 

Six wagons is about the limit, I would have thought, that the prototype could take up something so steep and as 8 wagons plus loco is the maximum train length that will fit in the fiddleyard then 6 will do just fine.

 

The track on the bank now properly laid, plus part of the run-round loop laid. Nothing yet wired up though.

 

As there is going to be a passenger service, with all the signalling, facing point locks etc. then I'm going to need a signal cabin. I was going to buy a Wills kit for a ground-level signalbox but I thought that with all the other buildings so far being ready made then I ought to do a bit of modelling.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston