Bury Interchange in 4mm

[dhjgreen]

Have you used Maskol? I have some for later, I have not used it before; the idea was that it could be trimmed after being applied.

[MarshLane]

Have you used Maskol? I have some for later, I have not used it before; the idea was that it could be trimmed after being applied.

 

 

I was just reading the previous post and this popped into my mind!  Jon, you could start by applying it with a very fine paint brush and a ruler, so it gets works around the door stops, then go back underneath with another run using a wider brush.  A friend of mine did something similar I seem to recall when trying to add a white stripe to something, although he subsequently said a water transfer was a whole lot easier!!!  But could work well in your case?

 

Rich

[E3109]

Jon

 

Fascinating project and I wish you well with it, I used to love travelling on the old rattlers!

Sadly as a pretty much self-contained railway and presumably already having suitable substations it was ripe for a takeover by the empire-building GMPTE...

 

I recall one time at Bury Interchange in the mid 1980s, I managed to drop my Peak Wayfarer ticket under a 504, I mentioned this to the guard and the driver obligingly moved the set and the guard retrieved it for me. You don't get much better service than that!

 

Maybe it's something you don't wish to pursue but just an idea here. Maybe it would be worth your while to set the layout up for post-BR operations as well as your original design, this would mean having some form of portable OLE of course but apart from that I don't think the Interchange has altered too much since BR days.

 

As you probably know, diesel locos (and maybe even steam, a J94 or similar rings a bell) from the ELR have sometimes assisted with PW works on the Metrolink, thinking 37s and 03s here and indeed I saw a BR Blue 03 at Man Vic when I was based there in the late 1990s, think it had a couple of Seacows in tow. It was stabled just before the tight curves leading out of the station, obviously there is no way anything 'main line' would be able to traverse that formation!

 

I also recall some report in a mag (probably Rail Enthusiast) that when class 31s were dragging the 504s away for scrap there was an issue with the Ped/unit roofs fouling the tramway OLE. So it seems the kit was already in place and also I'm pretty sure the masts were up for quite a time when the 504s were still operating.

 

I don't think this incident was at Bury interchange but well, modellers' licence and all that...

 

Best of luck with this and looking forward to your updates.

 

Incidentally, I note your concern about masking.

Can I just recommend BECC self-adhesive custom decals, this stuff is far better than Tamiya tape for a sharp line and because it's vinyl it flexes much better over details than masking tape.

 

I found this out by accident, I'm making a model of Reddish Depot (504s were regular visitors for the wheel lathe there BTW) and my original intention was to use the 0.5mm tape as a decent representation of the window frames. However, what I found is that it was miles better to use the thicker stuff as a masking agent and just use Halfords white primer to represent them. No leakage or feather edges at all, well pleased.

The vinyl lining is the product you may wish to look out for, I think it's generally intended to provide lining details to ships and so on.

Absolutely fantastic stuff and pretty cheap too, no connection apart from as a satisfied customer etc, www.becc.co.uk

Edited August 18, 2018 by E3109

[E3109]

Come to think of it, Replica still have Mk1 suburbans that you could use instead of cutting up an EPB. And I think the cabs may be available from someone on Shapeways.

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/spares-and-accessories/spares

IIRC Clive Mortimore of this parish has done just that without using the DC Kits ends, good though they are.

His photos depicted judicious saw cuts and building up as required, thus if the DCK bits aren't available I'd refer to that thread, they look pretty decent.

Can't remember which thread but it was ER Unit type mods, 305s or 308s I think.

Edited August 18, 2018 by E3109

[dhjgreen]

IIRC Clive Mortimore of this parish has done just that without using the DC Kits ends, good though they are.

His photos depicted judicious saw cuts and building up as required, thus if the DCK bits aren't available I'd refer to that thread, they look pretty decent.

Can't remember which thread but it was ER Unit type mods, 305s or 308s I think.

Clive's topic is here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93301-dmu-conversions-for-sheffield-exchange/

[E3109]

Cheers for that.

The DC Kits stuff is (was) very good but Clive's stuff demonstrates that you can DIY, thanks for posting the link sir: I refer to it often but can never find it when I need it!

 

Thanks.

[JonKing]

Have you used Maskol? I have some for later, I have not used it before; the idea was that it could be trimmed after being applied.

 

 

I was just reading the previous post and this popped into my mind!  Jon, you could start by applying it with a very fine paint brush and a ruler, so it gets works around the door stops, then go back underneath with another run using a wider brush.  A friend of mine did something similar I seem to recall when trying to add a white stripe to something, although he subsequently said a water transfer was a whole lot easier!!!  But could work well in your case?

 

Rich

 

Thanks, great advice. I shall go and buy some Maskol and give it a go.

[JonKing]

Incidentally, I note your concern about masking.

Can I just recommend BECC self-adhesive custom decals, this stuff is far better than Tamiya tape for a sharp line and because it's vinyl it flexes much better over details than masking tape.

 

More good advice, I will add BECC vinyl to the shopping list.

 

I did at one point consider basing the model in the Metrolink era which would, as you say give an excuse for some pretty unusual engineers working (including cut down 08s on engineers trains). I have got my eye on some PH designs cut down 08 bodies so a metrolink engineers train may be see occasionally. Of course if I modelled Crumpsall Station it would be perfectly acceptable for the time period for class 504s still to be running but with Metrolink gantries erected and semaphore signalling still in place controlled by Crumpsall box. Maybe a project for another day!.

 

Regards,

 

Jon

[mark axlecounter]

I’ve used maskol a lot it’s very good stuff. I repainted a Hornby black 5 and covered the buffer beam in maskol. No black on the buffer beam

[MarshLane]

I'll stand corrected, but I am sure there was no visible Metrolink work had taken place on the Crumpsall - Bury section while the 504s were running.  I seem to recall the reason the service was terminated at Crumpsall was to allow Victoria to be changed around and OHL work to take place through the Tunnel between Victoria and Queen's Park.  

 

There was certainly no OHL at Bury on the last day - https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/26064829842.

 

If you've not seen them Jon, these may help you.

Flickr Pic 1

Flickr Pic 2 (Station Exterior)

 

The remaining 504s must have been dragged by the 31 south over the route before heading to Warrington, although I suspect they used the junction at Queens Road onto the old Manchester Loop via Red Bank, rather than going through the tunnel into Victoria as the Metrolink work would have been well advanced at that point.

 

Hope the above is of some help!

 

Rich

[Gibbo675]

Jon

 

Fascinating project and I wish you well with it, I used to love travelling on the old rattlers!

 

Maybe it's something you don't wish to pursue but just an idea here. Maybe it would be worth your while to set the layout up for post-BR operations as well as your original design, this would mean having some form of portable OLE of course but apart from that I don't think the Interchange has altered too much since BR days.

 

As you probably know, diesel locos (and maybe even steam, a J94 or similar rings a bell) from the ELR have sometimes assisted with PW works on the Metrolink, thinking 37s and 03s here and indeed I saw a BR Blue 03 at Man Vic when I was based there in the late 1990s, think it had a couple of Seacows in tow. It was stabled just before the tight curves leading out of the station, obviously there is no way anything 'main line' would be able to traverse that formation!

Hi There,

 

Manchester Ship Canal 0-6-0 No. 32 in the livery of Thomas the Tank Engine was used on ballast trains in about 1994 or there about. It was used because of its diminutive loading gauge, its ability to traverse tightly curved track with its radial knuckled coupling rods and that a steam engine on Metrolink was a jolly out.

The ballast was loaded at the ELR's Buckley Wells site and then worked by No. 32 to the work site and then to Manchester Victoria to allow the locomotive to run around its train for its return to Bury.

One evening Trevor Jones who was then the ELR's Board Chairman was challenged by some Rozzers as to why he was parked up at the Bury Old Road ESSO station near the bridge over the M62 in the early hours of the morning, he told them he was waiting for Thomas the Tank Engine. They were most unimpressed and said if he didn't move on he would be in bother, Trevor refused because he was waiting for Thomas, and was then told he would be done for wasting police time. Thomas duly arrived, chuffed over the bridge and with the Rozzers not knowing what to say were bid farewell by Trevor.

 

Gibbo.

[JonKing]

I'll stand corrected, but I am sure there was no visible Metrolink work had taken place on the Crumpsall - Bury section while the 504s were running.  I seem to recall the reason the service was terminated at Crumpsall was to allow Victoria to be changed around and OHL work to take place through the Tunnel between Victoria and Queen's Park.  

 

There was certainly no OHL at Bury on the last day - https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/26064829842.

 

If you've not seen them Jon, these may help you.

Flickr Pic 1

Flickr Pic 2 (Station Exterior)

 

The remaining 504s must have been dragged by the 31 south over the route before heading to Warrington, although I suspect they used the junction at Queens Road onto the old Manchester Loop via Red Bank, rather than going through the tunnel into Victoria as the Metrolink work would have been well advanced at that point.

 

Hope the above is of some help!

 

Rich

 

Thanks for the useful links!.

 

As you say the mast structures didn't reach Bury until closure however they had reached Crumpsall. See photo here

[Signaller69]

An interesting project, I remember seeing 504's (all over blue livery iirc) on visits to Manchester Victoria in the early 80s.

 

Always good to see people building units on here too! Will follow along with interest.

 

Martyn.

[MarshLane]

Thanks for the useful links!.

 

As you say the mast structures didn't reach Bury until closure however they had reached Crumpsall. See photo here

 

 

Ah course, I was remembering no wires!  Id forgotten that the masts had been installed!  Nice find

 

Rich

[JonKing]

A bit of progress on the 504 - the brown areas and yellow ends have both been sprayed. I am really pleased with the brown area as the joint between the brown and the orange is fairly straight and crisp, much better than I thought I could achieve. Thanks to everyone for their advise on this earlier in the thread as it really paid off. Some touching in is required and the orange area between the cab side windows and yellow warning panel is slightly too large (which I can live with).

 

Next step is to spray the roof on both vehicles, gloss varnish then apply the white lining (which will be a transfer). I can then start weathering and detailing.

 

 

People will note that this is a thread about my proposed Bury Interchange layout however I have only really talked about the 504!. This is deliberate as I was waiting to see if I could bodge together a half decent 504 before starting the layout. Now that it looks like I will be able to build a passable 504 I will start thinking about the layout.

[SHMD]

They are a very good likeness for the units I remember, please go ahead with the proposed layout.

 

 

Kev.

[JonKing]

A fair bit of progress has been made over the last week or so, the bodies are now fully painted, lined, weathered and glazed (excluding the cab fronts). Weathering has included a filter coat (diluted matt grey) and general weathering to the door seems / body using the wipe on / wipe off technique to tone down the bright orange and make it look a bit more "used". Whilst not to everyone's taste I have also added grafitti tags using railtec decals, these were fairly important as I want my model to reflect the run down look which was prevalent on the Bury line in July 1991.

 

Air pipes have also been added to both cab ends.

 

 

My attention has now turned to the underframes which foolishly I thought would be similar to the EPB!. This isn't the case as the 504s had a completely different layout and Gresley bogies, a bit more work required here.

[JonKing]

Progress on the underframe continues albeit slowly. My focus over the last week or so has been glazing the cabs and installing the correct gresley bogies. I obtained some bogie frames for the motor bogies from DC kits which were then grafted onto the Bachmann bogies by cutting away the Bachmann bogie frames and retaining the centre pivot area and pickups. I also obtained some cast frames for the trailer bogies from ebay, these were very good castings however unfortunately I made a bit of a hash trying to use the Bachmann pivot areas and pickups etc resulting in some rather wobbly bogies (predominantly due to the trailer bogies being prototypically shorter than the motor bogies and therefore shorter than the Bachmann bogie units I was trying to fit them to).

 

I had always intended to 3d print the new underframe equipment boxes so decided I would just 3d print the trailer bogies aswell. CAD drawing below showing current progress, the red bits are the existing Bachmann pickups - I have designed the 3d model to (hopefully!) accommodate these. I'm not really keen in knocking up 3d CAD images in the evenings as I use a computer most of the day at work, however it is a necessity where my modelling skills aren't up to certain tasks.

 

[JonKing]

The 3d printed gresley bogies have arrived and rather pleasingly look the part but also accomodate the Bachmann pickup arrangement. Unfortunately I did have to make a slight alteration to the pivot area as this was undersized on the 3d print, I had also omitted a notch detail on the original Bachmann bogies which prevents them from rotating too far - luckily these mods were very minor. The underframes were also completed using some 3d printed bits and EMU underframe components bought off ebay. The underframe arrangement isn't 100% accurate as its based on photos and a bit of guesswork. Photos of the Gresley bogies and WIP underframes below:

 

 

 

 

The underframes were then painted matt black and weathered. Handrails have been added using 0.3mm wire and multi-working connector cable using 0.5mm wire. Cabs have been glazed using the transparent plastic from a Heljan 47 box cut to size and windscreen wipers added from a spare Southern Pride 304 etch, I have only added wipers to the drivers windows as it appears that most had lost the secondmans side wipers by 1991. The first 504 is now complete and, whilst its a bit rough around the edges, I am very happy with how it has turned out:

 

 

 

Next task is to build the turnout arrangement which forms the station throat. The turnouts have been drawn in templot:

 

 

I intend to build this as a single unit away from the layout. Whilst I have handbuilt turnouts before I have never built a diamond crossing so this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, one big compromise is that I am going to build the turnout using bullhead track components from C&L (the prototype being flat bottomed). I am doing this as most of the parts to build flat bottomed track require soldering and my soldering skills are not that good!, in the scheme of things however I don't think its too much of a compromise....

[dhjgreen]

The 3d printed gresley bogies have arrived and rather pleasingly look the part but also accomodate the Bachmann pickup arrangement. Unfortunately I did have to make a slight alteration to the pivot area as this was undersized on the 3d print, I had also omitted a notch detail on the original Bachmann bogies which prevents them from rotating too far - luckily these mods were very minor. The underframes were also completed using some 3d printed bits and EMU underframe components bought off ebay. The underframe arrangement isn't 100% accurate as its based on photos and a bit of guesswork. Photos of the Gresley bogies and WIP underframes below:

 

 Bogies.JPG

 

Underframe.JPG

 

The underframes were then painted matt black and weathered. Handrails have been added using 0.3mm wire and multi-working connector cable using 0.5mm wire. Cabs have been glazed using the transparent plastic from a Heljan 47 box cut to size and windscreen wipers added from a spare Southern Pride 304 etch, I have only added wipers to the drivers windows as it appears that most had lost the secondmans side wipers by 1991. The first 504 is now complete and, whilst its a bit rough around the edges, I am very happy with how it has turned out:

 

Finished.JPG

 

Finished 2.JPG

 

Next task is to build the turnout arrangement which forms the station throat. The turnouts have been drawn in templot:

 

turnouts.jpg

 

I intend to build this as a single unit away from the layout. Whilst I have handbuilt turnouts before I have never built a diamond crossing so this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, one big compromise is that I am going to build the turnout using bullhead track components from C&L (the prototype being flat bottomed). I am doing this as most of the parts to build flat bottomed track require soldering and my soldering skills are not that good!, in the scheme of things however I don't think its too much of a compromise....

Jon, can I buy those bogies please?

[E3109]

I may be interested in a few pairs too, if you put them on general sale.

[muddys-blues]

Good afternoon Jon, I am an exiled Bury Lad, and I travelled on the "Bouncing Hummers" lots & lots of times, nice application of the GMT livery, as others have said these units also appeared in rail blue & blue grey before the GMPTE livery appeared, are you going to be modelling the lit mercury bulb in the centre windows, please find below a couple of great 17 minute videos by signalman John. C. Earwicker, here it shows some great footage of the last days of this line under BR ownership, including the units being dragged off for scrap, and engineers trains etc.

 

Happy viewing.

 

Craig.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by muddys-blues

[Sandhole]

Jon, can I buy those bogies please?

I'm up for three sets please.

                                      C.

[railtec-models]

Few videos hold my interest to the very end, but these did. Absolutely love the sound of the rat working hard between the two 504s in the first vid. And hats off to the contributor(s) for getting a video camera out. Born/bred in Middleton and schooled in Bury, some of the stations along that corridor can get a bit tasty if you time it wrong.

Many thanks for posting; it provided a welcome interlude to the endless hamster wheel of designing.

Edited October 14, 2018 by railtec-models

[JonKing]

Jon, can I buy those bogies please?

 

 

I may be interested in a few pairs too, if you put them on general sale.

 

 

I'm up for three sets please.

                                      C.

 

Goodness, I didn't realise that there would be any interest in these. If I have set it up correctly the bogies are available from here:-

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/J8QKKHAEX/class-504-trailer-bogies?key=ecb34eed4425411510f19b10efed0b2f

 

Its worth noting that as these are designed to fit the Bachmann pickups other bearings (top hat etc) probably wont work as the bearing holes are oversized. Also, the models include shoe gear and cab steps / life guards (for the cab end bogie). If there is any interest it wont take much to modify the 3d model to exclude the shoe gear and cab steps / life guards.

 

Edit - I should also add they are also fairly expensive for what they are, this is down to the shapeways pricing system.

 

Jon

Edited October 14, 2018 by JonKing