MGR Hooper! Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi,Does anyone have detailed images of the LT Dreadnought coach underframes? The scale drawings I possess show two big tanks and that doesn't correspond to the few images I've managed to find online. I'd really like some assistance with the underframe details and their positioning. TIA 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted August 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2018 Not sure if these help or not. I took some shots of 2 coaches at the Epping-Ongar railway in June2013. I recall at the time noticing they were 'handed' and some pics might be useful but whether they have the detail you want I don't know. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi, Does anyone have detailed images of the LT Dreadnought coach underframes? The scale drawings I possess show two big tanks and that doesn't correspond to the few images I've managed to find online. I'd really like some assistance with the underframe details and their positioning. TIA 'Two big tanks' would suggest gas lighting - which is probably wrong for these coaches (?) ......... the hull answer's probably yours for a mere £82.25 : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metropolitan-Railway-Rolling-Stock-Snowdon/dp/1874103666 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePipersSon Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 According to the book, the original stock had gas lighting, but this was replaced towards the end of the first world war. The drawings in the book show both gas cylinders and battery boxes. I believe the layout was a large box on one side, and a small box opposite. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Jim Snowdon, who made the most widely-known drawings of them, is a member here, and a serious expert on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Not sure if these help or not. I took some shots of 2 coaches at the Epping-Ongar railway in June2013. I recall at the time noticing they were 'handed' and some pics might be useful but whether they have the detail you want I don't know. rev 427 underframe a.jpg rev 427 underframe b.jpg rev 427 underframe c.jpg rev 509 underframe a.jpg rev 509 underframe b.jpg Thank you, those pictures are most useful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 According to the book, the original stock had gas lighting, but this was replaced towards the end of the first world war. The drawings in the book show both gas cylinders and battery boxes. I believe the layout was a large box on one side, and a small box opposite. Tom Makes sense. Solves the mystery also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Jim Snowdon, who made the most widely-known drawings of them, is a member here, and a serious expert on them. Let's see if I can get in touch with him and pick his brains for some details. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Mr. Snowdon's book is available for £20 at the Titfield Thunderbolt Bookshop. Asking £82 for it on Amazon is beyond silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hi, Does anyone have detailed images of the LT Dreadnought coach underframes? The scale drawings I possess show two big tanks and that doesn't correspond to the few images I've managed to find online. I'd really like some assistance with the underframe details and their positioning. TIA Catching up on this, before yet another day passes, the original Dreadnoughts, the 1910 and 1913 batches, were built with gas lighting and two large gas tanks below the underframe. First class were obviously better illuminated, as their tanks were 24" diameter, as against only 20" for the third class passengers. They were converted to electric lighting c.1918, and the subsequent 1919 and 1923 batches were equipped with electric lighting from new. This arrangement had one large battery box on one side and a smaller box, which I presume was for the regulator and control gear, on the other side. That is how you will see it on the three preserved carriages. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) Catching up on this, before yet another day passes, the original Dreadnoughts, the 1910 and 1913 batches, were built with gas lighting and two large gas tanks below the underframe. First class were obviously better illuminated, as their tanks were 24" diameter, as against only 20" for the third class passengers. They were converted to electric lighting c.1918, and the subsequent 1919 and 1923 batches were equipped with electric lighting from new. This arrangement had one large battery box on one side and a smaller box, which I presume was for the regulator and control gear, on the other side. That is how you will see it on the three preserved carriages. Jim Thank you Jim! That explains the drawing then. The CAD I were commissioned to design will not need these tanks then... Many thanks for the help. Edited September 23, 2018 by MGR Hooper! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I thought there were already kits for the Dreadnoughts in both 4mm and 7mm scales, or are you working in a different scale? Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePipersSon Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 There were etched kits of Dreadnoughts available in 4mm. Designed by M G Wynn,under the trade-mark Tru-scale models, manufactured by Taseko ltd. and the main distributor was E S Models (Blackpool). They are exceedingly rare these days (unless someone knows better). Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Radley Models are listed as doing kits for the Dreadnoughts in 4mm scale, and Ken's Profiles (Ken de Groome) does them in 7mm scale. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter R Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Echoing Jim Snowdon's question asking who/what/why would anyone commission scale drawings of something where they already exist, elaborate please. Secondly, does anyone have a source of transfers for letters and words for Dreadnoughts in 7mm gauge. Lastly, to Jim Snowdon, on page 125 of the invaluable rolling stock book you caption a photo of a rake of MW stock as being in Crimson livery. I have seen no other references for anything other than teak, do you have anything else on this livery and if it was applied to much Met stock? Thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Echoing Jim Snowdon's question asking who/what/why would anyone commission scale drawings of something where they already exist, elaborate please. Secondly, does anyone have a source of transfers for letters and words for Dreadnoughts in 7mm gauge. Lastly, to Jim Snowdon, on page 125 of the invaluable rolling stock book you caption a photo of a rake of MW stock as being in Crimson livery. I have seen no other references for anything other than teak, do you have anything else on this livery and if it was applied to much Met stock? Thanks. The liveries on the later Metropolitan stock are, at least to me, something of an enigma. The 1927 MW stock motor cars were clearly teak (albeit painted) when new, as were the 1921 stock cars. Yet, the photograph of the prototype MV stock motor car shows a more uniform darker finish. The photographs of the 1929 stock show a similarly darker finish, and in the case of the train shown on p.125, it is patently clean, and certainly does not emulate the grained finish found on earlier "teak" stock. The 1931 stock, which was flush panelled but lined out to imitate panelling, shows a relatively dark shade, lined out in what can only be black and yellow/straw. It certainly isn't imitation teak and, given the black and white photographs, is very similar in terms of shade and contract with the crimson used by the LMS. Crimson is a logical colour for the Metropolitan and was already in use on the locomotive stock, as well as being cheaper to apply, notwithstanding the false panelling, than the grained teak finish. Apart from the MW stock, the general appearance of quite a few other late period carriages would suggest that the same painted finish was applied more widely in the late years of the Metropolitan's life, at least on steel panelled stock. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) If I am right and I am not too sure so please correct me if necessary, these coaches were formed as 6 car sets and the 2 end coaches have 3rd & 4th rail shoes with connection sockets and cables to connect to the met bo bo locos to save them from becoming gapped when the loco lost contact with the 3rd & 4th rails. In this case the shoes on the end coaches would assist with power supply to the loco. I suspect that there was a 600v jumper running through the length of the train - not just between the first carriage and the loco. Piers Connor tells of the ex-District railway locos L8/9 and the ESLs being gapped on occasion and these were significantly longer than the Met Bo-Bos. I suspect that the length of one Met loco + half a Dreadnought would still not be long enough to prevent gapping. However, being surplus to requirements, I suspect that the inter-car jumper connections would have been removed on entering preservation. Edited October 1, 2018 by ted675 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer_London Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Attached sketch shows typical configuration for the bus line [termed the 'Train Line' on Metropolitan Railway technical documents]. The graphic shows relative positions of vehicles, electric locomotive [pointed symbol], and configuration relative to the line. Taking a typical full formation, there are Third Brake coaches at outer ends, with the truck beneath the brake compartment carrying shoebeams and shoegear. Preserved Main Line stock vehicles B3 427 and 1/3 Composite 509 both have traction receptacles still in place. Main Line Stock to 1933 R3 min 3 Traction Supply bus line - Copy.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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