BRM Price Increase

[Howard Smith]

To my mind the "model railway magazine industry" is a sufficient niche to be considered on its own merits.

 

I beg to differ - modelling magazines are on the newstand because there's a newstand. Without one, I'd challenge you to convince supermarkets (and the like) to start stocking modelling magazines. The newstand isn't departing, it's just morphing into an electronic version. The subscription-based model isn't subjected to the same risk, however - I suspect door-to-door deliveries of magazine et al. will continue for a good while yet.  

 

 

My overall concern is that the concept of the digital edition will lead to a complete loss of identity for the paper magazine without morphing into a realistic electronic alternative.

 

 

I agree with your thoughts here, but this won't happen. For now the electronic alternative isn't mature enough, though as you'll see from every new digital issue thread on BRM, it's a far more enhanced version of the magazine and we're developing these with more content every month for subscribers (and casual purchasers alike), all linked to the content within - more videos, more photographs and live links. We'd like to think our digital edition is 'head and shoulders' above the competition for quality and quantity alike. We have exciting long-term plans for digital...

[Phil Parker]

Thinking some more after my Reply #145 I think it was motivated by the idea (which I forgot to mention) that in the 21st century if one was starting an electronic "magazine" about railway modelling it would look nothing like the digital edition of the paper version of BRM.

 

For a start it would probably emerge daily rather than monthly, and it would be a great deal more interactive.

 

 

Having run a 3-times a week version which was fully interactive (MREmag.com) for a few years, I can assure you that they idea might be lovely as long as you are getting entertained for free - and tough if you are the one putting the content together for no money. Why no money? Because advertising doesn't bring in the millions of pounds everyone assumes it does. If you want to do it though, there's nothing stopping you. You can even plug it on RMweb...

[Phil Parker]

I beg to differ - modelling magazines are on the newstand because there's a newstand. Without one, I'd challenge you to convince supermarkets (and the like) to start stocking modelling magazines. The newstand isn't departing, it's just morphing into an electronic version. The subscription-based model isn't subjected to the same risk, however - I suspect door-to-door deliveries of magazine et al. will continue for a good while yet.  

 

To prove Howard's point, look at the US and Canada. There isn't a WH Smith equivalent in every town so those magazines you find are a VERY limited selection. You certainly won't find any model railway mags, or modelling mags generally. UK readers are very lucky in this respect. 

[john new]

Editing and producing a bi-monthly Society magazine as Editor (SLS Journal) I agree a digital pdf would be considerably cheaper to distribute. Demographically for us though it wouldn't work as we have too many, non-IT savvy members. Equally, for digital content to work well it shouldn't just be a pdf of the print magazine it would need a second edit of the content into something much more fluid for the end consumer. Labour costs to achieve that are probably higher than printing.

 

However, over and above that a key issue is how do you want to read your items? It is not a simplistic, absolute, one-option fits all digital or print choice either. I already buy almost exclusively digital fiction, no storage and portable on my i-pad & Kindle, conversely I have tried it for non-fiction and it doesn't work for me. I also now find quite a lot of news content on sites like the BBC is on video rather than in text format with still pictures - they don't get much watching from me as reading text is easier to comprehend than audio for serious material. Video for tutorials where you need to watch the action does make sense. 

 

For the long term I guess it is rather like the VHS -v- Betamax issue; the winner hasn't yet emerged between print and digital as the ultimate distribution medium has not yet been established, when it comes it probably won't be either as we know it today (DVD or pdf) just like although VHS ousted Betamax it was DVDs that ultimately triumphed over both physical video formats in the mid-term until digital format began the video strike back - although neither personal/home viewing format has yet killed off the cinema - albeit that cinemas have morphed into something very different from those of 50 years ago.

Edited August 21, 2018 by john new

[Robin2]

I beg to differ - modelling magazines are on the newstand because there's a newstand.

That's a fair point. And perhaps you should be making plans for a future where there are no news stands.

 

But by some strange logic the digital version of BRM is only relevant because there is a paper version. If the rationale (or economics) for the paper version evaporates then IMHO the digital version will be competing with free websites such as RMWeb.

 

I consider a digital version to be very much second best, but I would be prepared to consider it if it allowed me to keep back issues without needing storage space.

 

Maybe its my age but there is something attractive about picking up an older magazine when I have forgotten what it contains and browsing through it. All of the online stuff has too much of a requirement for "search" which means that you need to decide what you want before you look for it. Online catalogues (such as RS Components and Farnell) are great examples of this. I never come across something and say "Gee, I never knew you could get one of those - maybe I'll buy one".

 

...R

[Phil Parker]

That's a fair point. And perhaps you should be making plans for a future where there are no news stands.

 

 

That would be a digital version of the magazine then.

 

 

 

But by some strange logic the digital version of BRM is only relevant because there is a paper version. If the rationale (or economics) for the paper version evaporates then IMHO the digital version will be competing with free websites such as RMWeb.

 

 

The only strange logic is yours. The digital version of BRM is produced alongside the paper version. If the paper version was to dispear, so would all the other model railway mags. At which point it's down to who has the best digital version, and we will have developed ours quite a lot by then.

 

 

I consider a digital version to be very much second best, but I would be prepared to consider it if it allowed me to keep back issues without needing storage space.

 

As you have said many times in this thread. Others have said on this and other threads that they really like the digital version of the magazine. This isn't all about you.

 

 

Maybe its my age but there is something attractive about picking up an older magazine when I have forgotten what it contains and browsing through it. All of the online stuff has too much of a requirement for "search" which means that you need to decide what you want before you look for it. Online catalogues (such as RS Components and Farnell) are great examples of this. I never come across something and say "Gee, I never knew you could get one of those - maybe I'll buy one".

 

 

A magazine, newspaper or book is a very different experience from a catalogue. Very few people read those from cover-to-cover for fun, it is a search experience. As the publishing world continues to go digital, people will get used to reading. They already do it on plenty of e-reader platforms including Kindle.

[john new]

This debate has made me consider swapping options and trying the new rather than stopping my subscription -

 

For existing postal, paper subscribers if we switch to digital what is our commitment period, i.e,. is it classed as a new subscription, with sign up options/commitments, or just a transfer of the existing agreement?

 

Thinking for the future - If we stop the subscription for any reason will we still have on-line access to the one's we paid for into the foreseeable future or would we have to download them for local storage? I ask as the latter would be a monster download if a reader packs it in. However, on-line access to the archive you've bought, rather than physical storage of metre's of paper in back issues, is a worthwhile selling point for me as I have limited storage room left. (what I have is already full of books and train stuff!!)

[Phil Parker]

Try the free sample issue first and see what you think before making any decisions.

 

And once you buy, you can always access them on any device via Pocketmags, even if you only buy one issue.

[Legend]

I beg to differ - modelling magazines are on the newstand because there's a newstand. Without one, I'd challenge you to convince supermarkets (and the like) to start stocking modelling magazines. The newstand isn't departing, it's just morphing into an electronic version. The subscription-based model isn't subjected to the same risk, however - I suspect door-to-door deliveries of magazine et al. will continue for a good while.

I don’t quite get this point . My local WHS ‘s in Braehead Glasgow and Greenock have both closed . So now I go to Sainsbury’s in Braehead and Tesco’s In Port Glasgow . Both certainly have the 4 main model railway magazines , and a good deal more as well including aviation, shipping , and prototypical Railway mags. If there is a demand for magazines they will continue stocking them.

 

I’m not sure if the demand for digital editions is push or pull. Is it push from the magazines because they make 7 times more per edition or pull from the customer because they actually like digital. I don’t know what the future holds but I think there will be choices , people will not all be herded down the digital route but make their own considered decision. I point to books and e readers as an example. I see this is the danger for BRM . In the process of adding extras to the digital edition and promoting it heavily , people will form the conclusion , rightly or wrongly , that the printed edition is second best . Will they all convert to digital ? Maybe not , but then you only need 1 in 7 of them to convert to be as profitable. . I’m not sure you can maintain both digital and printed editions indefinitely unless they are both the same, but then that would be wasting the digital potential. Sooner or later you will have to cross the Rubicon .

[SteveCole]

I don’t quite get this point . My local WHS ‘s in Braehead Glasgow and Greenock have both closed . So now I go to Sainsbury’s in Braehead and Tesco’s In Port Glasgow . Both certainly have the 4 main model railway magazines , and a good deal more as well including aviation, shipping , and prototypical Railway mags. If there is a demand for magazines they will continue stocking them.

 

I’m not sure if the demand for digital editions is push or pull. Is it push from the magazines because they make 7 times more per edition or pull from the customer because they actually like digital. I don’t know what the future holds but I think there will be choices , people will not all be herded down the digital route but make their own considered decision. I point to books and e readers as an example. I see this is the danger for BRM . In the process of adding extras to the digital edition and promoting it heavily , people will form the conclusion , rightly or wrongly , that the printed edition is second best . Will they all convert to digital ? Maybe not , but then you only need 1 in 7 of them to convert to be as profitable. . I’m not sure you can maintain both digital and printed editions indefinitely unless they are both the same, but then that would be wasting the digital potential. Sooner or later you will have to cross the Rubicon .

 

I love this topic. There are some great points being raised. Thank you.

 

I just wanted to comment on the first part of this post. You're right, whilst there is a demand for print magazines, supermarkets will continue stocking them. The problem is, magazine sales across the board are in decline. There's so much free stuff on the internet that more and more people are ditching magazines in favour of free content, regardless of its quality. All Mr Supermarket cares about is how much money each square metre generates. Will the space dedicated to magazines generate as much money as it would if used for baked beans, for example? A lot of supermarkets see magazines as important in generating footfall, hoping that these people spend money elsewhere. But, as magazine sales decline it's logical that the smaller magazines will be the first to be dropped.

 

BRM benefits from having it's own distribution department within Warners, rather than use a third-party. We can react far quicker and put in place a strategy to grow our monetary value to supermarkets. We are genuinely seeing our sales increase. However, digital magazines and subscriptions are seeing our biggest growth. In an ideal world we want everything to grow: newstrade, digital and subscriptions.

 

The print magazine certainly isn't second best. We simply use the benefits of a digital version to add 'extras' that we can't do with print: extra video, extra images etc. However, print provides benefits that digital can't offer, physical gifts being one. Then, add subscriptions into the mix, these readers have other benefits such as an initial 'welcome' gift, a super low price introductory offer and a lower price each year compared to buying from newsagents, plus free delivery and money off our show tickets. Each form has benefits...

 

BRM has other benefits that guarantee our longevity, this being websites: RMweb and World-of-Railways. We're currently working on some exciting projects for both. Watch this space.

[Matt C]

Confused.com aren't the newspapers and magazines in the supermarkets actually on a NEWSTAND ? Just one that happens to be positioned IN a supermarket ? Wether its Whs Tescos Sainsburys or your local newsagent they are displayed the same way. As to digital Vs printed,

 

If you look back at the first quite crude ebook readers (I still have one of the first Sony editions which surprisingly still works) compared to today's tablets they are worlds apart and still evolving. I'm no youngster but I've embraced the new tec and at this moment I'm reading and replying to this topic on RMweb, checking whats happening on another forum I help out on, catching up on today's news, tracking some parcels and sorting an array of digital music, books, magazines and films that we want for a trip we are taking, all on a 7" tablet. And for those who say " but what if you run out of power ?" I use a power bank that can keep me topped up for days without access to a power socket. For me digital is definately the future and I can fully understand the Team investing time and effort in developing this platform.

 

As to the future ? I wonder if a way forward will be using cloud storage with online access. A lot of software is now available online rather than sent out on disc, Some instead of being installed on your machine you log in and use it via the web. Maybe in the future we will simply buy a subscription that allows us to view this months BRM via cloud storage, or this years editions of BRM or even the full digital Archive of BRM depending how much you pay . I imagine the sofware is already out there to allow the user to view the chosen content on his device via an app that regularly checks that the user has an active subscription for that content.

 

Really interesting topic !

[Robin2]

Try the free sample issue first and see what you think before making any decisions.

I can't find how to access that?

 

When I go to the pocketmags website all the BRM issues seem to have a price.

 

...R

[RedgateModels]

I can't find how to access that?

 

When I go to the pocketmags website all the BRM issues seem to have a price.

 

...R

 

https://pocketmags.com/british-railway-modelling-magazine/free-sample-issue-2

[Andy Y]

I can't find how to access that?

 

When I go to the pocketmags website all the BRM issues seem to have a price.

 

...R

 

Another one - https://pocketmags.com/british-railway-modelling-magazine/free-sample-issue

[cravensdmufan]

I love this topic. There are some great points being raised. Thank you.

 

I just wanted to comment on the first part of this post. You're right, whilst there is a demand for print magazines, supermarkets will continue stocking them. The problem is, magazine sales across the board are in decline. There's so much free stuff on the internet that more and more people are ditching magazines in favour of free content, regardless of its quality. All Mr Supermarket cares about is how much money each square metre generates. Will the space dedicated to magazines generate as much money as it would if used for baked beans, for example? A lot of supermarkets see magazines as important in generating footfall, hoping that these people spend money elsewhere. But, as magazine sales decline it's logical that the smaller magazines will be the first to be dropped.

 

BRM benefits from having it's own distribution department within Warners, rather than use a third-party.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Just a small point about distribution.

 

My print copy of BRM is saved for me each month by my local independent newsagent as I like to support the shop.  In the past when sometimes there were free gifts they were never attached to my saved copy. Slightly annoying to see the same edition in Sainsburys or Tescos with the goodies!

 

Could you ensure that any future "freebies" are included with copies purchased from all retailers please?

 

Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

It's the 21st Century. The question to ask is "is there any value to a paper version of the magazine"?

 

By the time you take out ALL the costs involved in getting a physical copy from the designer's computer to the shelves of a newsagent, obviously each digital version makes more money per copy... (Lights blue touchpaper and retires to a safe distance)

 

All depends on the market and the way you want to market the product.  A paper copy can be seen on the newsstands, in supermarkets and so on and can therefore rope in a percentage of new buyers with every issue because it is self-publicising, so in other words every copy displayed is also contributing to advertising.  If Warners decide to discontinue the print version that is 100% up to them as a commercial decision - and it would give me shelf room to start buying 'Railway Modeller' on a regular basis.   And of course if all the mags stop print editions I've got a smashing back archive to read whenever I want

 

In contrast the electronic version has somehow to be promoted and marketed and, except on RMweb, that will cost additional money so there is a financial balance beyond a simple comparison of production cost and profit per issue.  Equally you have to consider the buyer - some will much prefer a printed magazine and would be lost customers if the print version were to be dropped so there could be a nett loss of sales, even if they have a lower profit ratio.  And we then come back to the offer involved in an electronic version - although it still have various disadvantages in use compared with print (mentioned previously in this thread) there remains the simple issue of what one is actually buying and I certainly wouldn't buy anything which doesn't offer the 'ownership' equivalaent of buying a print edition - i.e. it will entirely & permanently be mine to do with and store as I want in a form I can continue to consult or print extracts from irrespective of internet connections and so on.  As I said before I can go to any printed copy of the mag since the first issue and look at it, photocopy pages which I might want to use when doing some modelling and so on as long as I care to keep it.  

 

I might for example want to photocopy the plan of a building from an old issue in order to build a model - if not necessarily in the same scale.

 

Simple message perhaps, when a customer buys something then that is what they are doing - taking ownership of it and not simply borrowing. 

 

Edit to correct typos, sorry

Edited August 22, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Phil Parker]

Simple message perhaps, when a customer buys something then that is what they are doing - taking ownership of it and not simply borrowing. 

 

As has been said before, many, many times - when you buy an issue of BRM on Pocketmags, you own it. Forever.

 

I bought a one-off issue at least a year before taking out a digital sub and I could read this at any time. My sub expired earlier this year and I forgot to renew it for a month, and I could still read the back issues. 

 

Being able to store on your own machine in PDF is another matter. You can output pages to PDF for plans etc. - we know this because someone did this for the coal office I built a few months ago, and then posted the file on RMweb for everyone who hadn't bought the magazine to download, which they did over 30 times before we moderated it away. That is what WILL happen if we hand out easily distributable copies of anything, even if you have "given your word" you won't.

 

However, it's incumbent on Pocketmags and us, to keep the back issues in a format that can always be read. We don't want to go down the route of the BBC Doomsday book and or any of the other proprietary file formats that have died a death. I can't predict the future. but it seems to be software and files stored "on the cloud".

 

I certainly get the preference for a physical format, I still buy CDs, but can also see the cloud thing isn't as terrible as many think. Presumably, local storage fans, you'll be regularly backing up your hard drive on two devices, including one that lives off-site?* If not, and the majority don't, and your hard drive failed (they do), the computer was destroyed in a fire or stolen, then who's problem is your lack of back-issues? At least the Pocketmags system saves you from that loss, so cloud isn't all bad. 

 

The point we keep making is no-one is forcing anyone to go digital. Warners need to look at it for the future, but since they are still expanding the printing plant, they have far more reason (and money) than anyone on here to keep paper going. This discussion has largely settled into the "I hate digital and don't believe it should ever exist and you must never mention it again" and "I quite like digital or at least will give it a go" camps. Not sure this will ever change as this isn't the first thread to have resolved itself this way.

 

*Before anyone asks, I run three backups, including a cloud-based one and a physical drive that lives off-site. 

[ejstubbs]

keep in mind that Android is a variant of Linux as also is the MAC operating system.

 

MACOS is not based on the Linux kernel.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_timeline.en.svg

 

Simple message perhaps, when a customer buys something then that is what they are doing - taking ownership of it and not simply borrowing. 

 

That message is actually a little too simple.  In strict terms, what you own when you purchase a print copy of a magazine is the medium - the paper and ink.  You do not own the content: that is protected by copyright.  Similarly, when you buy a DVD or CD, what you own is the plastic disc, the library case and the paper and ink carrying the liner notes.  The actual music or film is protected by copyright.  In respect of the content what you are granted in exchange for your money is a licence to use it for specific purposes.  Remember those messages that come up on DVDs saying that they cannot be used for public performances?  That's part of the terms under which the you are granted a licence to watch the film on the disc.  Yes, copyright laws allow a limited amount of "fair use" - such as your example of photocopying a few pages for reference when doing some modelling, and the growing acceptance that people have the right to back up and re-format digital content for their own use.  But that is still covered by an end user licence.  Just as it is illegal to burn and distribute copies of a commercial CD, you are not allowed to photocopy a whole magazine multiple times and give those copies away free, let alone for money.  That may seem an unlikely thing for people to do as it would be time-consuming and quite costly.  But digital content is much easier and cheaper to copy than paper.  Even DVD copy protection is easy to circumvent: you just need to link the decryption library that allows you to watch the DVD in to a program that copies the content off the disc to a separate storage medium.  Not easy to do on a DVD player, but trivially simple on a computer.

Edited August 22, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Matt C]

Phil hope you didn't't leave your off site copy with Andy Y, he cant even find his own clothes

[The Stationmaster]

MACOS is not based on the Linux kernel.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_timeline.en.svg

 

 

That message is actually a little too simple.  In strict terms, what you own when you purchase a print copy of a magazine is the medium - the paper and ink.  You do not own the content: that is protected by copyright.  Similarly, when you buy a DVD or CD, what you own is the plastic disc, the library case and the paper and ink carrying the liner notes.  The actual music or film is protected by copyright.  In respect of the content what you are granted in exchange for your money is a licence to use it for specific purposes.  Remember those messages that come up on DVDs saying that they cannot be used for public performances?  That's part of the terms under which the you are granted a licence to watch the film on the disc.  Yes, copyright laws allow a limited amount of "fair use" - such as your example of photocopying a few pages for reference when doing some modelling, and the growing acceptance that people have the right to back up and re-format digital content for their own use.  But that is still covered by an end user licence.  Just as it is illegal to burn and distribute copies of a commercial CD, you are not allowed to photocopy a whole magazine multiple times and give those copies away free, let alone for money.  That may seem an unlikely thing for people to do as it would be time-consuming and quite costly.  But digital content is much easier and cheaper to copy than paper.  Even DVD copy protection is easy to circumvent: you just need to link the decryption library that allows you to watch the DVD in to a program that copies the content off the disc to a separate storage medium.  Not easy to do on a DVD player, but trivially simple on a computer.

 

I agree absolutely that the copyright is protected by laws (various) and in view of stuff I have in print in both books and magazines  I sincerely hope that remains the case.  But - as you probably understood - that was not my point because what I own having purchased a print magazine is unfettered access to its contents until such time that I throw it away and can make personal use of the contents whenever I wish for whatever personal reason I might wish.  If I can't do that with an electronic magazine and store it which ever offline way I like on any or all of the various electronic storage media I own (all of which are in my home) then all I'd be doing is paying a lending library fee, not purchasing an electronic magazine.

[RedgateModels]

  If I can't do that with an electronic magazine and store it which ever offline way I like on any or all of the various electronic storage media I own (all of which are in my home) then all I'd be doing is paying a lending library fee, not purchasing an electronic magazine.

 

But you can already. I proved it the other month when I upgraded the sd card in my phone from 32gb to 64gb. I copied the contents from one card to another and all my downloaded BRMs copied over fine. I would expect not to be able to copy the files from say android to PC and it to work though ....

[Matt C]

I agree absolutely that the copyright is protected by laws (various) and in view of stuff I have in print in both books and magazines  I sincerely hope that remains the case.  But - as you probably understood - that was not my point because what I own having purchased a print magazine is unfettered access to its contents until such time that I throw it away and can make personal use of the contents whenever I wish for whatever personal reason I might wish.  If I can't do that with an electronic magazine and store it which ever offline way I like on any or all of the various electronic storage media I own (all of which are in my home) then all I'd be doing is paying a lending library fee, not purchasing an electronic magazine.

 

Equally I don't need to get up off the sofa to hunt down that magazine I need buried in amongst the hundreds stored out in a cold dark workshop, Also I cant lug a suitcase full of magazines on holiday with me to do some research for a project (SWMBO needs all that room for clothes apparently) but I can take my tablet with me and wifi permitting, view any digital content I have access to and bookmark relevent pages for when I want them ? I think this discussion can run and run and run lol, all arguments are equally valid in there own way and in the end it all comes down to personal preference to use what medium is available

[Cmax]

Equally I don't need to get up off the sofa to hunt down that magazine I need buried in amongst the hundreds stored out in a cold dark workshop, Also I cant lug a suitcase full of magazines on holiday with me to do some research for a project (SWMBO needs all that room for clothes apparently) but I can take my tablet with me and wifi permitting, view any digital content I have access to and bookmark relevent pages for when I want them ? I think this discussion can run and run and run lol, all arguments are equally valid in there own way and in the end it all comes down to personal preference to use what medium is available

 

 

Think you have hit the nail on the head, "Wifi permitting" if the file was downloaded, you wouldn't need wifi think that's what most people are getting at.

 

Gary

[RedgateModels]

But you don't need to be connected to view the basic mag once downloaded to your phone/tablet/pc. I've just done it on my phone, turned off wifi and mobile data, ran up pocketmags and browsed this month's issue.

 

OK I did get and error message about network not present, but that's all. Oh and of course I couldn't access extra content that is only online like the vids etc.

[Matt C]

Think you have hit the nail on the head, "Wifi permitting" if the file was downloaded, you wouldn't need wifi think that's what most people are getting at.

 

Gary

so I CAN download it and read it offline, ok I cant watch the video but the hardcopy buyers cant watch the dvd either so nil nil there then. But if I DO have wifi I can do so much more

 

And when SWMBO is sound asleep at night, snoring her head off, I can still read mine without putting the light on and risking disturbing her slumber

 

All down to individual choices again