Dapol Kitmaster Wagon Kits - coupling

[The Johnster]

They cleaned the track in the sense that they picked up dirt from it, but then they re-distributed the dirt everywhere else on the layout, particularly places difficult to access and clean.  Metal wheels do not do this; track still gets dirty of course, but my cleaning regime is far less rigorous now that I have eliminated plastic wheels from my layout.

[The Johnster]

They cleaned the track in the sense that they picked up dirt from it, but then they re-distributed the dirt everywhere else on the layout, particularly places difficult to access and clean.  Metal wheels do not do this; track still gets dirty of course, but my cleaning regime is far less rigorous now that I have eliminated plastic wheels from my layout.

 

I find that a combination of steel wheels, well laid level track and smooth joins, and regular (almost daily) running does most of the work of keeping things clean for you.  My track gets a going over whenever I think it needs it, in practice about every 6 weeks, and locos get by on an occasional squirt of cleaner fluid and a strip down and deep clean about every 6 months or so.  An exception is a Hornby 2721 which needs much more attention to keep it in good running order, an approximate weekly clean.  I can only attribute this to the material used in the wheel rims on this model, which also requires a lot of tweaking in the pickups to keep on top of the job.  I intend to ultimately replace this chassis with a Bachmann version.

[tomparryharry]

My 'lady wot does' come around twice a week. I might have to let her go, as she's not very good with fishplate gapping..... 

[Guest teacupteacup]

Just an update on the Parkside wheels question, I ordered a Peco branded Parkside kit and can confirm the wheelsets are fully metal

[john new]

Relating back to the OP. I bought some of these kits recently after a long gap. The black NEM pocket that is nowadays supplied does not look like it is made from polystyrene, some form of nylon or polypropylene by the look of it. What adhesive is best to fit them?

• Superglue/cyanoacetate is not suitable for polypropylene or similar so I am guessing no point in trying that (That is according to the information panel on the pack I have just read from).
• Epoxy resin?

Even if I fit alternative couplings fixed by a screw to the three kits in the current batch the NEM pockets would be useful on some other models so the glue question is a relevant general query.

 

 

[john new]

11 hours ago, john new said:

Relating back to the OP. I bought some of these kits recently after a long gap. The black NEM pocket that is nowadays supplied does not look like it is made from polystyrene, some form of nylon or polypropylene by the look of it. What adhesive is best to fit them?

• Superglue/cyanoacetate is not suitable for polypropylene or similar so I am guessing no point in trying that (That is according to the information panel on the pack I have just read from).
• Epoxy resin?

Even if I fit alternative couplings fixed by a screw to the three kits in the current batch the NEM pockets would be useful on some other models so the glue question is a relevant general query.

 

 

Reply now received from Dapol.  

1) Bespoke design, not NEM.

2) Best glue to use - superglue.

[The Johnster]

I have now some experience of Parkside NEM pockets which I have fitted to various non-NEM stock, and found that cyano is fine for sticking 'em to the chassis floor, but be careful of your positioning so that the coupling neither sticks out too much but still clears the buffers.  I attach it to the pocket, line it up on the floor of the wagon, and scratch a mark on the floor for the back of it to align to.  If I were to have any more Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster wagons (and I'm thinking about another meat van) now, I'd fit couplings using this method.  I am trying to standardise on Bachmann straight shank short NEMs where possible, but ensuring the heights match on what should be a standard system is a whole nother thing!

[Graham456]

21 hours ago, john new said:

Relating back to the OP. I bought some of these kits recently after a long gap. The black NEM pocket that is nowadays supplied does not look like it is made from polystyrene, some form of nylon or polypropylene by the look of it. What adhesive is best to fit them?

• Superglue/cyanoacetate is not suitable for polypropylene or similar so I am guessing no point in trying that (That is according to the information panel on the pack I have just read from).
• Epoxy resin?

Even if I fit alternative couplings fixed by a screw to the three kits in the current batch the NEM pockets would be useful on some other models so the glue question is a relevant general query.

 

 

 Well it might not look like polystyrene have a shiny greasy look but normal liquid polystyrene glue sticks if very well to wagon (kit) floors can't comment about sticking to rtr wagon underframes 

the black plastic melts/softens  as you would expect for it to stick with liquid poly..type glue ...remember that name?  Can you still get it ........don't worry happy with contacta 

personly I would not use superglue finding it brittle with shock loads like a heave shunt

Edited May 21, 2019 by Graham456
Additions

[john new]

7 minutes ago, Graham456 said:

 Well it might not look like polystyrene have a shiny greasy look but normal liquid polystyrene glue sticks if very well to wagon (kit) floors can't comment about sticking to rtr wagon underframes 

the black plastic melts/softens  as you would expect for it to stick with liquid poly..type glue ...remember that name?  Can you still get it ........don't worry happy with contacta 

personly I would not use superglue finding it brittle with shock loads like a heave shunt

I have to admit Dapol's answer surprised me too as I also thought superglue failed along the joint if hit by a shock. I will do one wagon with my liquid-poly and see how it goes. If it breaks under testing a screw fitted coupling is fine for me.

[Steamport Southport]

Never use them as I use "scale" couplings, but I think the plastic is ABS. Try MEK/butanone.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

Depends on the superglue!  It can be made to break along the join as it is designed for strength in tension, not in a shearing action, but Gorrilla, my default, is capable of taking any shearing load I’ve thrown at it so far, including a loaded mineral train capable of making a Hornby 42xx slip if I’m heavy handed on the knob.  

 

I also use pound shop superglue for non-loadbearing applications that might have to be dismantled in the future because it can be fairly easily broken apart.  

 

To break cyano along the join, a sudden fairly gentle but sharp tap with a hammer is usually sufficient, the shock wave doing the work for you.  If you can break an NEM mounting off in shunting, tbh you need to learn how to drive trains properly!

[retiredoperator]

Hi Crumplezone and interested parties. I have recently bought some Dapol “kitmaster”  Presflo Wagon Kits. The wheels are not plastic, and don’t look bad to me, but the Couplings are made of plastic. Which gives me two choices, either Kadee my first choice or NEM pockets . But as I prefer Kadee there is no other option. And then of course additional weight for stability, means liquid lead and glue to keep it in place. Unless any Modeller can advise of a better way to do it.   Happy Modelling Kev 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

In my youth, I weighted a Presflo with real cement. Oh, the days of innocence.

 

Messy and not to be recommended.....

[The Johnster]

It's pretty messy in 1:1 scale!

 

Parkside do NEM mounts which you can glue to the chassis of these kits, and can be used with tension lock or Kaydee couplings.  As for ballast, liquid lead with PVA usually does the job for me, but is expensive.

[Steamport Southport]

You can get reasonably priced rolls of lead from a few suppliers.

 

Places such as Eileen's do it. 

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1225&name=8ba-10&Itemid=189

 

 

 

Jason

[spikey]

On 23/08/2018 at 11:43, Steamport Southport said:

...Seriously though, places like Eileens Emporium sell it for a reasonable price

 

And the scrap price of lead being what it is nowadays, your friendly local builder or roofer will probably be glad to fix you up with a goodly helping of lead flashing offcuts for the price of a pint

[john new]

If you have a local shot gun retailer they may be happy to split some cartridges for you. I got a tub of pellet weights that way recently from SportArm in Dorchester (usual disclaimer).  Better value than the previous pack of fishing shot bought from the local tackle outlet.

Edited August 16, 2019 by john new

[D9020 Nimbus]

When Airfix originally produced these, the coupling supplied was the horn/hook type used on RTR US models before Kadee-style couplings became universal. Vaguely similar to Simplex or Dublo-style couplings, but not the same.

[Steamport Southport]

29 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

When Airfix originally produced these, the coupling supplied was the horn/hook type used on RTR US models before Kadee-style couplings became universal. Vaguely similar to Simplex or Dublo-style couplings, but not the same.

 

They still have them on the sprue.

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, spikey said:

 

And the scrap price of lead being what it is nowadays, your friendly local builder or roofer will probably be glad to fix you up with a goodly helping of lead flashing offcuts for the price of a pint

 

You can ask your local tyre fitter also.

[Il Grifone]

On 16/08/2019 at 10:04, Peter Kazmierczak said:

In my youth, I weighted a Presflo with real cement. Oh, the days of innocence.

 

Messy and not to be recommended.....

 

I used plaster - the wagon still exists (and is due for a refit, but not high on the list).

 

19 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 

You can ask your local tyre fitter also.

 

H & S has ensured that wheel balance weights are no longer made of lead (luckily I have a stock!) I bought about a square foot of lead sheet on eBay recently (for £6 IIRC). This lot will keep me going for a while. I use steel 'penny' washers (in bulk from Wilko - usual disclaimer) where high density is not an issue. (Unfortunately really high density metals have a really high density price tag!)

 

The Airfix hornhook coupling*, unlike the contemporary Ratio version) is not the same as the American X2f. It is larger and, while it will couple, the buffing arrangements are different. I have modified them but it's not worth the trouble. Someone on an American site compared X2fs to a parasaurolophus!  (http://www.prehistoric-wildlife.com/species/p/parasaurolophus.html). I can't think why! 

* They will couple with Peco/HD knuckle couplings, (presumably different to avoid patent infringement) but not very well and uncoupling requires a different design of ramp. Removing the horn helps but causes other problems.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Dunsignalling]

I built several of these years ago, using the X2f-style couplers provided, but the rate of attrition on couplers made from the same plastic as the rest of the kit proved to be horrendous. Original Peco hooks fitted using the Airfix pin and they did survive in traffic.

 

Modern mini-tension locks, Kadees and much else will fit easily using the NEM mounts from the Parkside-Peco range.   

 

John

Edited August 17, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, spikey said:

 

And the scrap price of lead being what it is nowadays, your friendly local builder or roofer will probably be glad to fix you up with a goodly helping of lead flashing offcuts for the price of a pint

 

I wouldn't even know where to find a local builder, roofer or tyre fitter....

 

Price of a pint? That would be pretty near to buying it from Eileens for some of us. 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

 

Parkside do NEM mounts which you can glue to the chassis of these kits, and can be used with tension lock or Kaydee couplings.  As for ballast, liquid lead with PVA usually does the job for me, but is expensive.  The two kits I've just had delivered include tension lock couplings, but not NEM mount types.  I'm old enough to remember these things being introduced by Airfix, who described the plastic couplings as 'Peco Type' in the instructions.  They seemed to work well enough, and were the first self centring couplers I remember, but were of course hopelessly incompatible with anything else, and those early kits were used with Airfix kit locos in a pushalong mode or became siding lurkers,  

 

The meat van has interior detail and can be modelled with the door open, a useful feature but mine will be built for traffic use.  The opening door on the mineral is similarly useful.

[kevinlms]

20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They still have them on the sprue.

 

 

 

Jason

And most toss them out, along with the wheelsets moulded in two halves!