Pembroke Oil Trains

[firstgreatwestern]

Hello RmWeb.

 

Freight services west of Port Talbot in Wales are becoming increasingly rare. In 2014, the Murco Refinery at Robeston closed down. I assumed this meant that the train services ceased.

 

A week ago at Britton Ferry, I saw a huge oil train being headed by a Class 60. It was coming from the West so it had definitely been down Pembrokeshire. I was wondering, have freight trains to Pembrokeshire restarted again? I did some research and it seems the Robeston site is now an Oil Terminal, can this still be serviced by rail? Any knowledge would be appreciated.

 

FGW

[Fat Controller]

There's at least one (very long) daily oil train from Puma Energy, on one of the old refinery sites, to Westerleigh (north of Bristol, next to the M4), or Theale (west of Reading).

[Steadfast]

At present Westerleigh seems to run 5 or 6 days a week (sometimes twice on some days) and Theale 2 or 3 times a week, so potentially 10 or 11 trains out of Robeston weekly. From memory I think Westerleigh is up to 29 tanks (roughly 2900t trailing) and Theale up to 24 (2400t trailing)

 

Jo

[Fat Controller]

At present Westerleigh seems to run 5 or 6 days a week (sometimes twice on some days) and Theale 2 or 3 times a week, so potentially 10 or 11 trains out of Robeston weekly. From memory I think Westerleigh is up to 29 tanks (roughly 2900t trailing) and Theale up to 24 (2400t trailing)

 

Jo

My old school overlooked the main line to West Wales; I remember the 100t Gulf tankers being introduced, and thinking what an impressive sight they were; at that time (1967?), the load was 11 tanks behind a Brush Type 4.

[The Johnster]

I worked on these as a Canton guard in the 70s, and ascending Stormy with the loaded was great fun.  I also worked the 1,600 ton trailing double headed 37 Gulf trains, and they were even more fun going up Stormy; you were lucky if you were doing more than 15mph at the summit!

 

We worked down to Llanelli, and up line to Swindon, Gloucester or Hereford, occasionally Worcester, with Gulf, Total, Texaco, and BP from Llandarcy.  Mostly 100 ton air braked 60mph bogie, but occasionally air or vaccum 4 wheelers, also 60mph.

 

I also occasionally worked trains of 100 ton bogie tanks into Aberthaw and Uskmouth power stations, and on one occasion a loaded train transferring tanks from Aberthaw to Uskmouth.

[ianwales]

There's currently 2 trains per day, usually Theale and Westerleigh, there's also another destination which escapes me for the moment.

 

Ian

[Fat Controller]

There's currently 2 trains per day, usually Theale and Westerleigh, there's also another destination which escapes me for the moment.

 

Ian

Bedworth, between Coventry and Nuneaton? I thought they'd given up on that one. Though three trains a day doesn't seem very much, each carries almost as much as three of the late-1960s 'Gulf' trains.

The title of this thread should really be 'Pembrokeshire oil trains'. All the rail-served refineries were on the north side of the Cleddau, clustered around Milford Haven; the refinery at Pembroke (now Valero, formerly Regent, then Texaco, lastly Chevron) was never rail-connected, using coastal shipping, pipelines and road to move its output.

[firstgreatwestern]

Thank you for knowledge and help everyone, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

FGW

[hmrspaul]

Nice very recent photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewkmurray/42503586400/in/photostream/

 

Paul

[richscylla]

I have a nice little video of these trains running on my YouTube channel!

[matt-b]

2900 tons? Is that one of the heaviest trains on the current network?

 

Is this handled with a single class 60?

 

Does a load this heavy work the 60 hard? Or do they have plenty in reserve?

 

 

 

Matt

[The Johnster]

The ruling gradient is Stormy Down, between Margam and Bridgend, 1 in 90 for, IIRC, 3 miles.  The double headed 37s we had on the 1,600 ton Waterston-Albion tanks in the 70s would top this at about 15mph. 

[Fat Controller]

The ruling gradient is Stormy Down, between Margam and Bridgend, 1 in 90 for, IIRC, 3 miles.  The double headed 37s we had on the 1,600 ton Waterston-Albion tanks in the 70s would top this at about 15mph. 

When the iron-ores went over the top, they were even slower- slow enough for the locals to pinch the tail-lamps.

[Steadfast]

2900 tons? Is that one of the heaviest trains on the current network?

 

Is this handled with a single class 60?

 

Matt

Not one of the heaviest (some of the Mendip trains are over 4500t) but due to the gradients mentioned, probably close to the limit for that particular route.

 

Single 60 all the way, good machines!

 

Jo

[Enterprisingwestern]

I've mentioned this in another thread, but it seems the class 60's are the best locomotives nobody wants!

 

Mike.

[KeithHC]

I have a nice little video of these trains running on my YouTube channel!

https://youtu.be/4wQTWPkRdcw

Charfield loops?

[The Johnster]

When the iron-ores went over the top, they were even slower- slow enough for the locals to pinch the tail-lamps.

 

7mph I believe with 3x 37s, and there's a foot crossing just before the summit for the locals to get access to.  Not a 100% fair comparison, though, as the iron ores had a standing start at the foot of the bank from Margam, and the Albions could get a run at it up to 60mph.  The Albions'd go over the top of Llanvihangel at about 20mph.

 

The noise was wonderful.

 

The loops at Stormy are good for 20 bogie tank wagons, so the 16 wagon Albions could be put inside out of the way if they were in trouble and there was traffic building behind, but the iron ores had to be given a run as they were too long for the loops; the only chance that side of Cardiff was Miskin.  They had to be given clear runs through Cardiff and Newport stations as well; great fun for the panels involved.  

[richscylla]

Charfield loops?

Yep! 

[Phil Bullock]

7mph I believe with 3x 37s, and there's a foot crossing just before the summit for the locals to get access to.  Not a 100% fair comparison, though, as the iron ores had a standing start at the foot of the bank from Margam, and the Albions could get a run at it up to 60mph.  The Albions'd go over the top of Llanvihangel at about 20mph.

 

The noise was wonderful.

 

The loops at Stormy are good for 20 bogie tank wagons, so the 16 wagon Albions could be put inside out of the way if they were in trouble and there was traffic building behind, but the iron ores had to be given a run as they were too long for the loops; the only chance that side of Cardiff was Miskin.  They had to be given clear runs through Cardiff and Newport stations as well; great fun for the panels involved.  

 

The Albions sounded pretty good heading north out of Worcester too - they only ran that way for a year or two before path changed to Hereford and Shrewsbury....arrived at Albion facing south so easy to reverse in to terminal with that routing.

 

Phil

[The Johnster]

They were running via Hereford and Shrewsbury when I worked on them, Phil, '71-'78.  

[Phil Bullock]

Cheers - its interesting to look at how traffic changed over this period!

 

Booked Southbound AB traffic in my WTTS was:

 

68-69:

 

Tanks - Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Avonmouth - Bomford Bridge

Freightliner - Sheffield - Cardiff

 

69-70:

 

Tanks -   Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Llandarcy - Rowley Regis, Waterston - Albion, Avonmouth - Bomford Bridge - all tanks -  and Dudley - Swansea, Sheffield - Cardiff Freightliners

Freightliner - Dudley - Swansea, Sheffield - Cardiff

 

70-71

 

Fertiliser (UKF) Ince and Elton - Bridgwater/Andover/Gillingham/Camarthen, 

Limestone in CBAs - Tunstead - Margam

Tanks - Waterston - Albion, Rowley Regis - Llandarcy, Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Kingsbury - Waterston, Bromsgrove - Waterston, Thames Haven - Bromsgrove, Immingham - Bromsgrove

Freightliner - Sheffield - Swansea

 

Pretty sure the Waterston - Albions had gone off the Worcester route by 71-72 but my wtt has currently gone walkabout! They must have gone Worcester - Kidderminster - Stourbridge - Dudley - Bescot - cant recall any other available route that didnt need a run round - but where did they go from Bescot? They would have arrived facing south and I do have vague memories of seeing one at Soho so Perry Barr - Soho then up the Stour Valley to arrive at Albion facing north seems most likely.... a sort of decreasing spiral! Guess thats why Hereford - Shrewsbury - Wolves to arrive facing south worked better operationally.

 

Phil

[ianwales]

but the iron ores had to be given a run as they were too long for the loops; the only chance that side of Cardiff was Miskin.  They had to be given clear runs through Cardiff and Newport stations as well; great fun for the panels involved.  

 

 

Not sure where you got that info from, but, it was regular practise if the up London hadn't left Neath then the Iron ore would be routed off the docks branch up stormy and into stormy loop for the London to pass, usually by the time the Iron ore was in the loop the London would by about Pyle breathing down its neck, also there's another(longer) loop at Pencoed before you get to Miskin.

 

Ian

Edited September 16, 2018 by ianwales

[The Stationmaster]

Cheers - its interesting to look at how traffic changed over this period!

 

Booked Southbound AB traffic in my WTTS was:

 

68-69:

 

Tanks - Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Avonmouth - Bomford Bridge

Freightliner - Sheffield - Cardiff

 

69-70:

 

Tanks -   Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Llandarcy - Rowley Regis, Waterston - Albion, Avonmouth - Bomford Bridge - all tanks -  and Dudley - Swansea, Sheffield - Cardiff Freightliners

Freightliner - Dudley - Swansea, Sheffield - Cardiff

 

70-71

 

Fertiliser (UKF) Ince and Elton - Bridgwater/Andover/Gillingham/Camarthen, 

Limestone in CBAs - Tunstead - Margam

Tanks - Waterston - Albion, Rowley Regis - Llandarcy, Port Clarence - Bromsgrove, Kingsbury - Waterston, Bromsgrove - Waterston, Thames Haven - Bromsgrove, Immingham - Bromsgrove

Freightliner - Sheffield - Swansea

 

Pretty sure the Waterston - Albions had gone off the Worcester route by 71-72 but my wtt has currently gone walkabout! They must have gone Worcester - Kidderminster - Stourbridge - Dudley - Bescot - cant recall any other available route that didnt need a run round - but where did they go from Bescot? They would have arrived facing south and I do have vague memories of seeing one at Soho so Perry Barr - Soho then up the Stour Valley to arrive at Albion facing north seems most likely.... a sort of decreasing spiral! Guess thats why Hereford - Shrewsbury - Wolves to arrive facing south worked better operationally.

 

Phil

 

Tank car trains had to arrive at Albion facing south in order to be able to propel the cars back into the term,inal.  if they arrived facing north there was no way of berthing the train unless a second loco was available to tail it (which I don't think the signalling allowed) or the train loco was trapped on the blocks (which would then have made the formation too long unless it was a short train).

 

Many of the trains you've listed above,  all the UKF workings and quite a few of the oil trains, were actually Y paths (obviously so for the UKFs) and in any case were invariably only run according to advice/cancellation by Notice.  This meant that you wouldn't get all of them running on any particular day, especially as they often 'shared' loco and traincrew resources.  For example the full UKF programme included a number of other destinations further north and if the train was running to one of those it couldn't run to any of the destinations via Worcester although in later years (and probably then?) the paths to some locations were only shown in the WTT for particular days of the week.

 

As a result of this there was a lot of short term planning involved and once I got control (in 1989) of both the short term and long term freight planning on the WR I gradually altered the system to make short term (i.e one week's notice or less) alterations a lot simpler and reduce the planning cycle for permanent WTT alterations down to 8 weeks and then did away completely with WTT supplements for freight WTTs (which in turn helped to reduce the short term planning work).  Prior to that I'd effectively had control of the short term planning for a couple of years and had got a bit fed up with the workload for my team so some radical changes were needed.

[br2975]

My 1971/1972 Swansea - Awre Jct WTT shows the following oil services originating from South Wales.

 

UP
6M33 1715 Hebrandston – Shrewsbury & 6V18 0240 MX  Shrewsbury – Hebrandston both via the North & West. * both shown as discontinued from 03/05/1971
6M37 2100 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP
6M38 0600 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP
6M39 1840 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP  * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 03/05/1971  Outward working of 6V83
6M40 0335 MX Llandarcy – Rowley Regis, Witton, Wednesbury or Spring Vale. 
6M34 2325 MX-Q Tidal Sidings - Soho Pool

6M41 1140 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP
6M49 0955 WO Waterston – Albion Gulf ‘Special’ via North & West
6M50 1510 Waterston – Albion Gulf via North & West
6M51 0500 Waterston – Kingsbury & 0052 WO Kingsbury – Waterston Gulf
6M52 2025 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf
6M53 0048 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf

6O41 .......  FO Penarth Curve North – Fawley.

DOWN
6V38 1350 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP
6V64 0230 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf   * amended to 02:10 MX from 04/05/1971
6V70 1215 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf

6V71 2140 WO Fawley – Penarth Curve North (ThO)

6V79 1444 Witton, 1454 Spring Vale, 1506 Wednesbury or 1539 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP

6V80 0728 MX-Q Soho Pool - Cardiff Marshalling Sidings.

6V83 0230 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 04/05/1971   Return working of 6M39            
6V85 1925 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP
6V88 0715 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via North & West
6V90 0445 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP
6V92 2112 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf via the North & West

 

NOTE
Amendments shown * are taken from Supplement No.1 to the WTT Section 7 commencing 3rd May 1971.

.

My attached  photo was taken early one summers evening in 1971 at 'sniper alley' just east of St. Fagans L.C. on the western approaches to Cardiff and shows a pair of Canton Cl.37s with a Waterston - Albion working.

Edited September 17, 2018 by br2975

[The Johnster]

It is not impossible that yours truly is in the rear cab of the leading loco in that shot, Brian.  Or in the secondman's seat if it was a single manned turn.  We worked them down to and up from Llanelli for relief by Llanelli men or up to and down from Hereford for relief by either Hereford or Salop (Shrewsbury was always called Salop on the railway) men.  Llanelli and Hereford men had turns to Canton for relief as well.  Up trains would be relieved at the signal on the Up Loop at Canton Goods, and downs on the Down Relief, this involving the rear of the train stretching back far enough to foul moves at Cardiff Central station, and therefore generally done as quick as you could!

 

I have a story (most of us did) about sniper alley, a regular spot for airgun or brick/rock attacks approached from 'Birdie's Lane, which connected Ely and Fairwater, two places that really did not need to be connected for any legitimate purpose, via a footbridge over the River Ely and a bridge under the railway.  It was just before xmas, maybe '72 or 3, and we had worked down to Llanelli with a train of tanks, 'we' being a full crew of myself, driver, and passed secondman.  It was a day job for a change, and we had a couple of hours to kill in Llanelli before our back working, more tanks with a 47; I can't remember the working but a Kingsbury or something probably.

 

So, with nothing to do and not wanting to spend the whole time in the pub, we went and had a wander around the shops in Llanelli.  As I said, this was xmas week and the shopping was in full swing.  The secondman bought a present in Woolworth's for his young nephew, a fan of Westerns, a passable replica but plastic toy and completely harmless Winchester Repeating Rifle, Billie the Kid's gun.

 

Fast Forward a couple of hours and we are rolling along on the up just about where the Albion above is photographed, all in the front cab and chatting merrily at about 60mph with the power shut off.  Standing on the parapet of a river bridge (the SWML crosses and recrosses the Ely several times along this stretch) is a local ne'er do well who was probably later well known to Brian in his adult professional capacity, brick already in hand and taking aim.  

 

My secondman cooly and without batting an eyelid leaned over, picked up the Winchester, dropped the right hand cab window, and took a bead on the miscreant.  Mouth open in utter disbelief, he leaned backwards and did a slow comedy drop into the cold river water, brick still in hand.  We were still laughing at Canton.  

 

I often wonder if his mates ever believed the story.  If they did, it made no difference to the frequency of attacks on trains here, the local bad guys are nothing if not resilient...

Edited September 17, 2018 by The Johnster