Cwm Prysor - 'The Bala Branch'

[Pteremy]

Yes, they are excellent books. (At least the one I have - volume 1 - is!) But the pictures are biased towards the very final years before closure. As such the locomotives are often in a pitiful state, unrepresentative of even just a few years earlier. 

[Captain Kernow]

13 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

Yes, they are excellent books. (At least the one I have - volume 1 - is!) But the pictures are biased towards the very final years before closure. As such the locomotives are often in a pitiful state, unrepresentative of even just a few years earlier. 

All three of the books published (out of six planned), plus the supplement to Volume 1 are totally sublime.

 

The bias towards the 1950s/1960s period is inevitable, really, as they are colour volumes.

 

As such, the images are perfect for weathering grotty, run-down locos.

 

These are, in my view, amongst the very best railway books on the market at the moment.

 

[Pteremy]

Yes, the reliance on colour images is responsible for the skew. 

 

Personally I don't want to model grotty run down locos - partly for aesthetic reasons but also because I would rather celebrate the years when there was some degree of pride in what locos looked like. I also associate 'grot' with the obscene haste which characterised modernisation of the railways by the early-mid 1960s.

[Tom F]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

All three of the books published (out of six planned), plus the supplement to Volume 1 are totally sublime.

 

The bias towards the 1950s/1960s period is inevitable, really, as they are colour volumes.

 

As such, the images are perfect for weathering grotty, run-down locos.

 

These are, in my view, amongst the very best railway books on the market at the moment.

 

 

Absolutely with you Tim! I think we are very lucky to have any colour photos from this period, let alone what actually do have available to view. Being the fairly young age of 33 (I think I can still classify as young...just), these are my only real resource to see what thing looked like in the late 50s, early 60s.

 I have just ordered  Vol 3!

Edited April 26, 2019 by 9793

[Tom F]

Looks like there are strange things going on at Cwm Prysor again! 

No, not really. My client picks up his Class 24 and the first 6 of his HUO Hoppers. Figured I'd give the Class 24 it's final spin!

 

 

[leopardml2341]

See, I knew you'd see the light

[Tom F]

57 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

See, I knew you'd see the light

 

I do quite like her! Maybe one day I'll have D5011 on it's demolition train! However priority has to be on Moguls and Manors and more stock for Bala.

[gismorail]

Looks in it's natural surrounding that Class 24 and I'm sure that had the line stayed open they would have been regular performers. I'm just awaiting a two tone green one from SLW and when researching as to where they got too I found that two were stabled at Croes Newydd D5005 & D5037 around 1965/6 

Really enjoying your wonderful thread so interesting to knew whats on my doorstep

Impressive weathering by the way excellent  

 

[Tom F]

13 minutes ago, gismorail said:

Looks in it's natural surrounding that Class 24 and I'm sure that had the line stayed open they would have been regular performers. I'm just awaiting a two tone green one from SLW and when researching as to where they got too I found that two were stabled at Croes Newydd D5005 & D5037 around 1965/6 

Really enjoying your wonderful thread so interesting to knew whats on my doorstep

Impressive weathering by the way excellent  

 

 

Cheers Martin
I wonder where D5011 was shedded, as she was on the Barmouth demolition train in 1967/68, I wonder if Mach had any? (I don't have the relevant books I'm afraid).

 

Glad you are enjoying the thread Martin, I'm envious how close you live to the area!

 

[leopardml2341]

9 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

Cheers Martin
I wonder where D5011 was shedded, as she was on the Barmouth demolition train in 1967/68, I wonder if Mach had any? (I don't have the relevant books I'm afraid).

 

Glad you are enjoying the thread Martin, I'm envious how close you live to the area!

 

Tom, I'm happy, as ever,  to help with the 'conversion process' 

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/24011.html

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, leopardml2341 said:

Tom, I'm happy, as ever,  to help with the 'conversion process' 

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/24011.html

 

That's a brilliant resource, cheers Andy!
Interesting, as I know nothing about shed allocations after 1965 and it seems the old shed system changed. Did Stoke Devision include a few MTDs?

[31A]

12 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

I do quite like her! Maybe one day I'll have D5011 on it's demolition train! However priority has to be on Moguls and Manors and more stock for Bala.

 

Oh dear, surely not the beginning of a "slippery slope"?

[Tom F]

17 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Oh dear, surely not the beginning of a "slippery slope"?

 

Don't  worry Steve, it would literally be the only diesel I could use. All steam right through until the line  (Ruabon-Barmouth) closed in January 1965.

[Martin S-C]

23 hours ago, Pteremy said:

Yes, the reliance on colour images is responsible for the skew. 

 

Personally I don't want to model grotty run down locos - partly for aesthetic reasons but also because I would rather celebrate the years when there was some degree of pride in what locos looked like. I also associate 'grot' with the obscene haste which characterised modernisation of the railways by the early-mid 1960s.

I'd offer caution on what our memories tell us reality was like. I come across plenty of pictures of pre-grouping and post-grouping engines in pretty poor condition, some in very bad shape. Yes at the very end of steam - say the last 36 months - it all went to the dogs, but before that, cleanliness (or rather, the lack of it) was fairly consistent for decades. Steam engines are simply dirty things. Top link locos got a wipe down with oily rags before their first trip of the day but on arrival at their destination would be dirty again.

I think really clean engines as a rule were not seen after the 1880s or so judging by studying many photographs.

[The Johnster]

Digressing a little.  Standards of cleanliness in general began to decline after locos ceased to be allocated to individual drivers and became common user within their systems, which happened at different times on different railways and in some cases within individual railways. But it’s probably fair to say that the 1923 grouping put a very big nail in the coffin of the practice. 

 

OTOH, some of the very early locos that survived long enough to be photographed, like ‘Wylam Dilly’, were in an appalling state!

 

In the common user era, standards varied from shed to shed according to the availability of cleaners.  Cleaners, the lowest grade of footplatemen, rarely had the time to clean anything, having locos to light fires in and ashes to dispose of.  Small branch line sheds, where standards might be expected to be maintained, rarely did maintain them; lack of staff meant that there was no time for cleaning between booking on, prepping the loco, and taking it off shed to pick up the day’s first working.  

 

Big main line sheds turning out engines for prestigious expresses usually managed to have them looking smart, but staff shortages during WW2 put paid to that in most places and pre-war standards were rarely achieved afterwards.  King’s X and Canton were notable exceptions (but even these paragons couldn’t keep everything clean), and Stewart’s Lane kept it’s Golden Arrow Brits spotless.  Camden’s Pacific’s were usually smartly turned out.  There were also shed pets, like the Liverpool St, York, and Newcastle pilots.  

 

Things got very unkempt at the end of steam, and I can remember seeing Oxford and Banbury locos in 1965 that looked worse than those on the scrap lines at Barry.  But most steam locos were pretty dirty most of the time between WW2 and the end of steam

 

 

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

I'd offer caution on what our memories tell us reality was like. I come across plenty of pictures of pre-grouping and post-grouping engines in pretty poor condition, some in very bad shape. Yes at the very end of steam - say the last 36 months - it all went to the dogs, but before that, cleanliness (or rather, the lack of it) was fairly consistent for decades. Steam engines are simply dirty things. Top link locos got a wipe down with oily rags before their first trip of the day but on arrival at their destination would be dirty again.

I think really clean engines as a rule were not seen after the 1880s or so judging by studying many photographs.

 

Completely with you Martin, I couldn't have put it better.

Railways are a dirty place....and it's one the things I love about it.

[Northmoor]

8 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

Don't  worry Steve, it would literally be the only diesel I could use. All steam right through until the line  (Ruabon-Barmouth) closed in January 1965.

One of the sadder parts of the period after the Beeching report, was lines like this where the economics of dieselisation weren't even tried. Obviously most of the costs of the old railway - infrastructure, fully-staffed stations, signal boxes at every station to let four trains a day go past - didn't change so there no opportunity was taken to demonstrate reduced losses.  There was already a surplus of DMUs available after huge parts of Eastern England had lost their services.

 

It's not as if the losses were particularly big in some cases; I remember reading somewhere that Carmarthen - Llandeilo lost £11,000 per annum, about £400k in today's money and to the end, all except one  intermediate station was staffed, signalled and operated by steam (so that's three people per train).  

 

I am a great defender of Beeching for doing many necessary things but the whole period from before his tenure and for many years after was just management by capitulation.

 

Sorry, a wistful moan on your thread!  Wonderful work, I enjoy every update.

 

Rob

[Tom F]

Had a little play around with the camera on the layout this evening.

 

7414 has stopped at Cwm Prysor with the 5.35pm Bala-Blaenau service.

 

The weather is on the turn, the wind is picking up and the Guard, James Roberts is impatient they start away as soon as possible.

 

The station house really helps to balance the look of the layout.

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, 9793 said:

Had a little play around with the camera on the layout this evening.

 

7414 has stopped at Cwm Prysor with the 5.35pm Bala-Blaenau service.

 

The weather is on the turn, the wind is picking up and the Guard, James Roberts is impatient they start away as soon as possible.

 

The station house really helps to balance the look of the layout.

 

 

 

Ah, how cruel the camera can be Tom. That first view is lovely but will no doubt remind you to fit brake and steam pipes to the coach (and, getting in before our teacher, a tail lamp).

[Tom F]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Ah, how cruel the camera can be Tom. That first view is lovely but will no doubt remind you to fit brake and steam pipes to the coach (and, getting in before our teacher, a tail lamp).

 

Ah yes the tail lamp. I realised after taking the photo it was missing! Oops

 

As for steam pipe and vac pipes, I’m going to be hypocritical here. I wouldn’t dream about missing them off goods stock but at this moment in time I’m not fussed about them missing off coaches. My concern is they will make uncoupling the screw links more difficult, hence why I’ve not bothered.

Edited April 28, 2019 by 9793

[Pteremy]

On 27/04/2019 at 15:39, Martin S-C said:

I'd offer caution on what our memories tell us reality was like. I come across plenty of pictures of pre-grouping and post-grouping engines in pretty poor condition, some in very bad shape. Yes at the very end of steam - say the last 36 months - it all went to the dogs, but before that, cleanliness (or rather, the lack of it) was fairly consistent for decades. Steam engines are simply dirty things. Top link locos got a wipe down with oily rags before their first trip of the day but on arrival at their destination would be dirty again.

I think really clean engines as a rule were not seen after the 1880s or so judging by studying many photographs.

 

I agree. But that is my point. There is a difference between 'work worn' and 'decrepit'. The modelling I enjoy is a celebration of the past - so - personally -  i choose to distinguish the positive past from the negative past. On the Taunton-Barnstaple line standards were maintained through summer 1963, but then in 1964  it 'went to the dogs'.

 

 

 

[wiggoforgold]

Hi Tom. Might I ask a practical question? Apologies if you have already mentioned this earlier in the thread, but my computer is a bit "clunky" at the moment, and going back through 58 pages was a daunting prospect. Looking at the overall photo of Cwm Prysor, how long is the proscenium? Is it in a single part, or is ther a join? Finally, it appears from the picture that there may be a support about a third of the way along from the right hand end: is that right?

Alex

[Tom F]

6 hours ago, wiggoforgold said:

Hi Tom. Might I ask a practical question? Apologies if you have already mentioned this earlier in the thread, but my computer is a bit "clunky" at the moment, and going back through 58 pages was a daunting prospect. Looking at the overall photo of Cwm Prysor, how long is the proscenium? Is it in a single part, or is ther a join? Finally, it appears from the picture that there may be a support about a third of the way along from the right hand end: is that right?

Alex

 

Hi Alex

 

The overhead lighting rig is 10ft long (same as the layout), and is hinged in the middle (designed by Tim Horn). When opened to full length a bolt slots through and is tightened with a wing nut to tighten it all up.

 

Regarding the support, that’s nothing to do with the layout. It’s one of two supports for the shed joist. To give me sufficient width across for Bala, Cwm Prysor needed moving back as far as possible meaning I had to cut into the backscene. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

On 28/04/2019 at 09:25, 9793 said:

 

Ah yes the tail lamp. I realised after taking the photo it was missing! Oops

 

As for steam pipe and vac pipes, I’m going to be hypocritical here. I wouldn’t dream about missing them off goods stock but at this moment in time I’m not fussed about them missing off coaches. My concern is they will make uncoupling the screw links more difficult, hence why I’ve not bothered.

Remember, steam-heating hoses were removed in the summer months, Tom.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[wiggoforgold]

7 hours ago, 9793 said:

 

Hi Alex

 

The overhead lighting rig is 10ft long (same as the layout), and is hinged in the middle (designed by Tim Horn). When opened to full length a bolt slots through and is tightened with a wing nut to tighten it all up.

 

Regarding the support, that’s nothing to do with the layout. It’s one of two supports for the shed joist. To give me sufficient width across for Bala, Cwm Prysor needed moving back as far as possible meaning I had to cut into the backscene. 

 

 

Thanks Tom

10', hinged in the middle. Sounds like a plan  what thickness of material was used for the front panel of the proscenium? (I'm assuming it was ply.)

 

Alex