RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2018 It wasn't the job of BR to pay, and apparently Liverpool council were ready to do so... The line was just about profitable from freight still, but with that decreasing it gave a good excuse to get rid. This is no doubt correct, Pete, whatever my 'what if' ramblings. The freight traffic was boosted by the CEGB's big construction schemes in the area, Trawsfynydd Power Station and the Tan y Grisiau pumped storage scheme that flooded the Ffestiniog. The predominant industry in the area, slate mining, was in terminal decline and once the big projects were finished, that was the end of sports really and would have been anyway, Beeching notwithstanding. It is perhaps surprising that he Conway Valley line remained open to Blaenau. Didn't know that Liverpool were willing to stump up for a deviation, though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Didn't know that Liverpool were willing to stump up for a deviation, though.Yes indeed, until they could see how much cheaper joining Central and North was. Should be noted that Liverpool paid for the A4212 which essentially replaced the railway. Edited October 20, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Sigh! Can we please stick to the universal language of railway modelling? Aber ich kann kein gutes Deutsch sprechen! Edited October 20, 2018 by Anotheran 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 That’s easy for you to say...(I so wanted to make that joke, but don’t speak Welsh.)It is if you speak Welsh..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2018 It is if you speak Welsh.....That was the point, Martin... Actually, if you put it in front of me, I probably would make a reasonable job of speaking it, but would have no idea what I was saying. For all I know, I’d be calling myself a lamb’s willy. (I believe that’s a Welsh-language specfic put down for something floppy and useless.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfys_Rainbow Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 That was the point, Martin... Actually, if you put it in front of me, I probably would make a reasonable job of speaking it, but would have no idea what I was saying. For all I know, I’d be calling myself a lamb’s willy. (I believe that’s a Welsh-language specfic put down for something floppy and useless.) More likely used to describe someone who is a fool! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2018 More likely used to describe someone who is a fool! Ah. How foolish of me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Moving on.... Today I've been messing around with the fiddle yards. Cwm Prysor's fiddle yards work on a cassette system. I like this as it means multiple locos can be stored and organised at ease. I also like the idea that the loco works to one end of the line, and although the loco is turned, the stock isn't. The cassettes for Cwm Prysor were made by Tim Horn (who also laser cut the superb baseboards, and layout name/lighting rig). The idea with the cassettes was that there would be a 'train cassette' and a 'loco cassette'. This way a loco firstly doesn't have to be handled (I'm conscious of instances where my locos have run on other layouts and thumb prints have appeared), plus this way no extra long cassettes are having to be turned by hand..... This reminds me of operating someone else's layout at an exhibition, where you were required to turn a 4ft/5ft cassettes (with loco and wagons) a whole 180 degrees,...with nothing but sponge stopping the stock falling to the very hard ground....the thought still brings me out in a cold sweat! The issue I've had, is the longest cassettes for goods trains was too long to fit a 'loco cassette' on the end. Well, today I've made an amendment which has one meant that a loco cassette can now fit on a 'goods train' cassette, but also that the goods trains themselves can now be 1 wagon longer. The exit track's L strip has to my mind protruded too much into the fiddle yard, but as Tim had made it this way, I didn't think there was much I could do about it, but the fact goods trains were reduced in length bothered me. So today I bit the bullet and unscrewed the exit tracks, L strip and cut them down to 2cm in length, enough to allow the clip to pass the current. Here you can now see, the exit track, loco cassette and finally the start of the goods train cassette in place. Edited October 20, 2018 by 9793 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2018 That was the point, Martin... Actually, if you put it in front of me, I probably would make a reasonable job of speaking it, but would have no idea what I was saying. For all I know, I’d be calling myself a lamb’s willy. (I believe that’s a Welsh-language specfic put down for something floppy and useless.) If it isn't it should be! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2018 Moving on.... Today I've been messing around with the fiddle yards. Cwm Prysor's fiddle yards work on a cassette system. I like this as it means multiple locos can be stored and organised at ease. I also like the idea that the loco works to one end of the line, and although the loco is turned, the stock isn't. The issue I've had, is the longest cassettes for goods trains was too long to fit a 'loco cassette' on the end. Well, today I've made an amendment which has one meant that a loco cassette can now fit on a 'goods train' cassette, but also that the goods trains themselves can now be 1 wagon longer. IMG_0387.jpg The exit track's L strip has to my mind protruded too much into the fiddle yard, but as Tim had made it this way, I didn't think there was much I could do about it, but the fact goods trains were reduced in length bothered me. So today I bit the bullet and unscrewed the exit tracks, L strip and cut them down to 2cm in length, enough to allow the clip to pass the current. IMG_0396.jpg Here you can now see, the exit track, loco cassette and finally the start of the goods train cassette in place. Nice work Tom totally get it, keep those pics coming inspiring stuff. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom F Posted October 20, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 Well that's the Fiddle yards now both fully wired and operational. I have been having a look through the WTT and found something interesting (at least to me). As far as I'm aware, most trains on the branch ran 'smokebox first'. The primary reason for this I believe, was due to the gradients from either direction to the summit at Cwm Prysor, so that when the loco is working hard and using the most steam, the firebox would be covered thanks to gravity. This wasn't always the case. The last terminating train of the day that would be sheded at Trawsfynydd would often work the Blaenau-Traws train bunker first, so it would be facing the right way for the morning train to Blaenau. There is a rare photo which shows 8727 working Bunker first into Frongoch near Bala, which would indicate the train had worked at least from Trawsfynydd bunker first. Now hear is the interesting bit (are you still awake?)The first train on the branch is the 5.45am Class K that terminates at Trawsfynydd at 6.50am. It would then presumably shunt/rest until the return working at 8.30am back to Bala. The only train to originate from Trawsfynydd that morning is the unadvertised workmen's train to the slate mines at Blaenau at 6.27am. While the goods engine is at Trawsfynydd two other Class B Passengers pass through.Although they would have preferred to work loco first, the engine would be full of water as it departs Trawsfynydd and would be able to fill again at Arenig on it's journey back to Bala. So, with that in mind the 8.30am Class K to Bala (and all other goods trains originating at Trawsfynydd for Bala) I suspect would work Bunker first. Visually this is nice, as most of my trains (as mentioned) work smokebox first.So here we have 5742, working the 8.30am Class K to Bala, on the approach to Cwm Prysor. Driver Ted Davies is already applying the break for the Stop Board just beyond Cwm Prysor. 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2018 Everything in those two photos is stunning. The loco and stock the weathering the track and ballast. The bleak landscape even though I know it needs grass etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggoforgold Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 This is a grat looking layout Tom, and I'm following progress with keen interest. I'm most interested to see the effect when grass is applied. I'm going to do another instalment of grass application on Upwell Drove soon, so I'm hoping to see what you do first to see if there are any ideas I can try. I'm assuming you have put down a base of the Tremendus earth powder and are going to layer the grass over that. May I ask what you are planning? Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 This is a grat looking layout Tom, and I'm following progress with keen interest. I'm most interested to see the effect when grass is applied. I'm going to do another instalment of grass application on Upwell Drove soon, so I'm hoping to see what you do first to see if there are any ideas I can try. I'm assuming you have put down a base of the Tremendus earth powder and are going to layer the grass over that. May I ask what you are planning? Alex I'm still planning out my ideas for the grass work. My thoughts at the moment are to go over the area to grass with a more green mix, to give a good basework, then go over with the more wild/brown grass. Then I will build up layers and variations. I took some photos tonight on my walk with my Border Collie, it's not Wales mind (Yorkshire Dales)....but moorland grass is moorland grass after all! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggoforgold Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Looking at that picture I think I'd start with an overall layer of 2mm fibres in a summer shade, and then build up layers using longer fibres in a winter shade to give the longer dead grass effect, before layering I'd mask off some of the 2mm fibres to make sure they show through. Alex 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Looking at that picture I think I'd start with an overall layer of 2mm fibres in a summer shade, and then build up layers using longer fibres in a winter shade to give the longer dead grass effect, before layering I'd mask off some of the 2mm fibres to make sure they show through. Alex Yep, that sounds about right. I'll probably cut bits of newspaper into random pieces, small, large and different shapes to leave patches of the more green type grass. Here is some Welsh moorland. On the Ffestiniog-Bala road (the old road) so not that far from Cwm Prysor. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted October 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2018 Yep, that sounds about right. I'll probably cut bits of newspaper into random pieces, small, large and different shapes to leave patches of the more green type grass. Here is some Welsh moorland. On the Ffestiniog-Bala road (the old road) so not that far from Cwm Prysor. DSC04043.jpg DSC04045.jpg Tearing rather than cutting might be good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) I’ll need to get some dust sheets to cover the ‘to be painted’ back scene. Otherwise once I spray the hairspray varnish onto the fibres for the second coat...I can foresee a disaster! Edited October 21, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 How much lighting have you got in the rig? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 How much lighting have you got in the rig? Off the top of my head I couldn’t say. They give off a nice amount of light and look natural. Capel Celyn section won’t have a lighting rig, so I’m going to look at fitting more strip lights in the shed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Evening all!Not a lot to report, other than tonight I have worked out Diagrams for the locos working trains on the branch and it all seems to workout nicely. The one intriguing loco movement is the Class K to Trawsfynydd that terminates at 8.52pm. There is no return working, so the engine would be shedded overnight in the lean to loco shed on the side of Trawsfynydd goods shed. She would then be ready to work the non advertised 6.27am 'workmen's train' to Blaenau (arrival 7.00am), before working back to Bala on the 7.12am. I've currently worked out four loco Diagrams for the day, which on the Operating Sequence are marked 'Dia 01, Dia 02' etc.... I shall then mark on a white board in each fiddle yard 'Dia 01 5774, Dia 02 9793'.... and when I'm bored or fancy a change around, I can reallocate the locos to different diagrams. Edited October 22, 2018 by 9793 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2018 Evening all! Not a lot to report, other than tonight I have worked out Diagrams for the locos working trains on the branch and it all seems to workout nicely. The one intriguing loco movement is the Class K to Trawsfynydd that terminates at 8.52pm. There is no return working, so the engine would be shedded overnight in the lean to loco shed on the side of Trawsfynydd goods shed. Doxie 0195.jpg She would then be ready to work the non advertised 6.27am 'workmen's train' to Blaenau (arrival 7.00am), before working back to Bala on the 7.12am. I've currently worked out four loco Diagrams for the day, which on the Operating Sequence are marked 'Dia 01, Dia 02' etc.... I shall then mark on a white board in each fiddle yard 'Dia 01 5774, Dia 02 9793'.... and when I'm bored or fancy a change around, I can reallocate the locos to different diagrams. I wonder what arrangements the crew made overnight; they'd have to lodge in Traws if there is no cushions for them to get home to Bala on or back early enough to prep the loco to work the workman's to Blaenau at 6.27. I imagine the loco was kept in steam overnight. If you want to change things around because you're bored (!) you can always make up a rota for boiler washouts, which need to be done every 10 working days and take 2 working days. Factor in that a loco due a washout is more likely to perform badly and lose time and you can cause all sorts of mayhem... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I wonder what arrangements the crew made overnight; they'd have to lodge in Traws if there is no cushions for them to get home to Bala on or back early enough to prep the loco to work the workman's to Blaenau at 6.27. I imagine the loco was kept in steam overnight. If you want to change things around because you're bored (!) you can always make up a rota for boiler washouts, which need to be done every 10 working days and take 2 working days. Factor in that a loco due a washout is more likely to perform badly and lose time and you can cause all sorts of mayhem... Morning TJ! Well my presumption is that the loco crew that lived at Trawsfynydd (I do know there were some) would have worked the terminating Pannier to Trawsfynydd in an evening. I'm assuming at this moment in time, but after Thursday I should have a definitive answer (all will be revealed). I like your idea regarding changing the roster after 10 working days for a boiler washout. In real life, I know Bala had a loco shed, but would they have had facilities for that? Or would said locomotives have been returned to Croes Newydd. Photos of the branch show a fair different number of 57XX and 74XX, so we know members of the class came and went from time to time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Wouldn't there be an evening 'light engine' movement in the WTT in the engine had not stayed overnight as you propose? I assume that the early morning workers train is in the WTT even if it was not advertised publicly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'm following your build with interest Tom. I can appreciate it so much more having moved to North Wales and travelled through the area. Working timetables can throw up some fascinating things that open up a window on the life of folk from days past. Through the Michael Clements site I have a document for my project area. One entry for a class H states:- “Stops at Grampound Road MX to pick up shunter, and traffic if required, and set down shunter at St Austell”. This occurs at about 2:30 in the morning... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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