Cwm Prysor - 'The Bala Branch'

[mikemeg]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Maerdy is at the head of the Rhondda Fach Valley, and can be a bit on the bleak side...

 

My own layout, Cwmdimbath, owes some of it's inspiration to a wet afternoon in 1969, when some chums and I were hiding from the worst of it in the Buffet at Cwmmer Afan General, waiting for the bus connection to take us over the mountain to Treorchy as it was where the bubble car service from Bridgend terminated in those days.  We'd been exploring the Austerity infested Maesteg NCB system, which ran on part of the trackbed of the Port Talbot Railway and had plenty of steam action!  The atmosphere was dripping with rain, as well as, um. atmosphere; even the sheep looked fed up!  You could almost hear the male voice choir doing one of those hymns in minor chords...

 

The old Buffet at Cwmmer Afan, then as now known as 'The Refresh', survives, serving the mountain bikers amongst whom the area is popular.  It's worth a visit if you're in the area for the photos on the walls.

 

At risk of seeming to hi-jack this thread, can I offer one final thought. The description, above, reminded me of a trainspotting expedition in 1964, when I spent a very happy and truly memorable week in South Wales, visiting as many of the South Wales loco sheds and scrap yards as I could, before steam was totally eliminated in that area.

 

One Sunday it was 88F - Treherbert - which was to be visited. I alighted from the train at Treherbert onto a completely empty platform on a very grey day. The clouds, that day, kept close company with the hill tops and there was total silence about the place; nothing stirred, nothing moved. Leaving the station I could hear the faintest echoes of choral singing, which became louder as I went through the village. Passing a building which was either a Chapel or a Village Hall, a door opened and the full glory of this sound burst out. It literally filled the whole place for a few brief moments, making a bleak, grey, dismal day glow golden, until the door closed once more. This was a very different sound from my staple fare of the time - The Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc. - but it was the most hauntingly beautiful thing I had ever heard and that tune and that scene have stayed with me ever since.

 

In retrospect that half minute or so, in Treherbert, seems now to have encapsulated the spirit of the South Wales valleys as it was then.

 

Of all the memories of that week, now more than half a century ago, none have lingered more vividly than that one. And so to complete the circle between that Sunday, those many years ago, and now, it was seeing Blaenau Ffestiniog on just such a day that so vividly reminded me and it seems that I am not alone in savouring those memories of these places.

 

It was only many years later that I was able to put a name to what I had heard that choir singing that Sunday, when I heard it again - Myfanwy - and it is, almost entirely, sung in minor chords and it is still hauntingly beautiful!

 

The days of our lives and a day, perhaps, which my youth brought forward from later adulthood.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by mikemeg

[Martin S-C]

21 hours ago, mikemeg said:

I can remember, as a youngster of twelve or thirteen, seeing some photos of a place called Maerdy, which I believe is in the South Wales Valleys, showing the railway (ex GWR) around that area in 1956 or 1957. With respect to those who still live in that area, those photos were the absolute antithesis of the famous GWR posters where the sun shone constantly and where world famous trains 'sped to the West' to the sun drenched beaches of Devon and Cornwall.

 

Those photos of Maerdy were the first I ever saw which prompted me to consider a subject for a model...

 

These three images and others like them from an old "GWR Steam in Wales" book have been a big source of inspiration over the years. The last one "Wet Day at Pontypool" with everthing glistening in watery sunshine after a rain shower is especially evocative.

[Fat Controller]

I think the photos are from 'The Heyday of Steam in South Wales'

The shot of Aberbeeg intrigues me; what are all those coaches doing there, and why so many corridor ones?

If you want real bleakness, then go to the heads of the valleys and look around; the remnants of long-closed industry everywhere.

[The Johnster]

Blaenafon will give you a fair taste of it, and there's still steam there!  If you want real bleakness, however, the Dowlais Top roundabout on the A465 takes some beating...  

 

I went to chapel as a kid.  Even in Cardiff, we sang hymns in 4 part harmony; nobody told us to or trained us to, it was just what everybody did.

[mikemeg]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Blaenafon will give you a fair taste of it, and there's still steam there!  If you want real bleakness, however, the Dowlais Top roundabout on the A465 takes some beating...  

 

I went to chapel as a kid.  Even in Cardiff, we sang hymns in 4 part harmony; nobody told us to or trained us to, it was just what everybody did.

 

Martin,

 

Doesn't get much more atmospheric than those photos, especially the last one. Wasn't the loco shed (86G) somewhere behind the rake of carriages, on the left hand side of the picture? I seem to remember walking along a boarded walk, across a number of lines, to the shed. And I can still remember a shed foreman's invective as I emerged from the shed - and it was in English; either that or the Welsh is very similar!!

 

Johnster,

 

And on International Day, in the Millenium Stadium, to hear the Welsh sing their anthem, as one enormous choir, will make the hairs on any neck, stand up. It is without equal.

 

And now, I feel, I have wandered off topic long enough, on Tom's thread.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by mikemeg

[Martin S-C]

Quite right, let's wander back...

 

[chrisf]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

I think the photos are from 'The Heyday of Steam in South Wales'

The shot of Aberbeeg intrigues me; what are all those coaches doing there, and why so many corridor ones?

If you want real bleakness, then go to the heads of the valleys and look around; the remnants of long-closed industry everywhere.

 

I'm not sure of the date of the Aberbeeg shot - one of Trevor Owen's finest - without diving for the book but I'm guessing 1962 because the passenger service ceased on 30th April of that year.  On summer Saturdays in the last few years of the line there were extra trains from Ebbw Vale and Abertillery to Paddington and Blaina to Weston-super-Mare and the corridor stock could well have been for one or more of those.  The non-corridor stock would have been for peak hour trains to and from Newport because 10 3-car dmus will only stretch so far, for Sunday excursions to Barry Island and Porthcawl and for workmen's trains.

 

Chris

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

Doesn't get much more atmospheric than those photos, especially the last one. Wasn't the loco shed (86G) somewhere behind the rake of carriages, on the left hand side of the picture? I seem to remember walking along a boarded walk, across a number of lines, to the shed. And I can still remember a shed foreman's invective as I emerged from the shed - and it was in English; either that or the Welsh is very similar!!

 

In the 1960s I doubt anyone in Pontypool spoke Welsh; very few places in Monmouthshire were Welsh speaking. The lingua franca was Wenglish: e.g. 'Gotta learn to talk tidy innit, like what you and me do do.'

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

And now, I feel, I have wandered off topic, long enough, on Tom's thread.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

On this topic, not at all Mike!

I've never visited the Welsh valleys, but I do remember my first trip to Blaenau Ffestiniog, in dank misty weather and I remember thinking, seeing all the cottages on the hillside at Tanygrisau, that this must be somewhat similar to the Welsh Valleys! 

It's an area (along with the Breon Beacons) that I'd like to explore someday.....oh along with Scotland! I do love our British Isles!

[mikemeg]

34 minutes ago, 9793 said:

 

On this topic, not at all Mike!

I've never visited the Welsh valleys, but I do remember my first trip to Blaenau Ffestiniog, in dank misty weather and I remember thinking, seeing all the cottages on the hillside at Tanygrisau, that this must be somewhat similar to the Welsh Valleys! 

It's an area (along with the Breon Beacons) that I'd like to explore someday.....oh along with Scotland! I do love our British Isles!

 

Tom,

 

Many thanks. You've come a long way since your Leaman Road days and have probably found a modelling locale and subject which suits your approach even more ideally. For me, it was seeing Blaenau Ffestionog, for the first time last Friday, which brought back the recollections of that week in the South Wales valleys back in 1964, towards the end of steam on the old GWR. The same observation you made on seeing Tanygrisau. The same weather, the same low and grey sky, the same dominating remains of their industrial raison d'etre (then) and industrial heritage now.

 

And yes, we are all extremely fortunate to live on these isles with their multiplicity of landscapes, histories, architectural dialects, cultures, accents and even different languages. Old Will, he of Stratford upon Avon, probably said it best in Richard II, with the Falstaff speech, though Dylan Thomas, Rabbie Burns and a host of others have all offered some wonderful descriptions.

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited May 9, 2019 by mikemeg

[Fat Controller]

24 minutes ago, Bishop of Welchester said:

 

In the 1960s I doubt anyone in Pontypool spoke Welsh; very few places in Monmouthshire were Welsh speaking. The lingua franca was Wenglish: e.g. 'Gotta learn to talk tidy innit, like what you and me do do.'

My grandfather, who was born in Liswerry, used to claim Monmouthshire wasn't Welsh. I was brought up at the other end of the coalfield, where Welsh was spoken more often; my father spoke Welsh as his first language. Wenglish, but with more Welsh, is still the lingua franca there. I watch the rugby on S4C, which throws up some gems. One of my favourites was when the traditional Boxing Day match between Swansea and Llanelli (sorry, 'Ospreys' v 'Scarlets') was cancelled because of a frozen pitch.

Interviewer to vox pop (in Welsh) 'What are you going to do now?'

Vox Pop; 'Dim [Welsh] clue, really [English]

That's fluent Sospan for you...

[The Johnster]

Dim problem o gwbwl!  Welsh speaking is an odd thing, and occupies the same sort of position in the culture as religion in Ulster.  The nation's population distribution and the location of the Welsh speaking areas means that there are more Welsh speakers in Cardiff than the rest of the country totalled, but few of them were born in the City and you will not hear it on the streets unless you have been listening for it.  I have always thought that a natural border of the general feel of things as Welsh or English in Monmouthshire would be the River Usk; the county was never included as Welsh when I was in school and the description 'Wales and Monmouthshire' was common.  As the county boundary in those days was the River Rhymni, this meant that the Rumney and Llanrumney districts of Cardiff, the capital city from 1958, while being within the city boundary, were not in Wales!

 

Even in the most Anglicised areas, it's always there, though, lurking beneath a surface that only needs scratching to reveal it.  Wenglish, the English language South Wales dialect (come from over by there to over by here now just/now in a minute) is in fact perfectly grammatically correct and makes complete sense, in Welsh, but spoken in English words with a smattering of Welsh survivors.  See 'er by there, twp* she is, but don't tell 'er or she'll go all didoreth* on you, now, innit...

 

My own ability with the language is very limited; I can order beer and understand if I am asked 'd'wyn siarad Cymreag', to which the response is 'na, dim ond tipyn back o Linguaphone' before I get in over my head.

 

 

*Twp = not the full shilling/prawn short of a barbecue (the actual Welsh word is 'twpsin' but this is long forgotten), didoreth = flustered and indecisive, in a bit of a panic.  My mother, from Wattstown in the Rhondda and claiming not to ever have ever spoken Welsh at all, used these and other Welsh frequently in her normal conversation.

[KeithHC]

That sounds all "Tidy see". The same happens in Pembrokeshire. You have South Pembrokeshire or Little England beyond Wales but also The Landsker line roughly following the route of the A40. Below the line mainly all speaking English above you hear Welsh.

 

Keith formally living in South Pembs and working in Cardiff. Now retired to Gloucestershire.

[Captain Kernow]

10 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Myfanwy - and it is, almost entirely, sung in minor chords and it is still hauntingly beautiful!

 

Just found it and played it, courtesy of the Treorchy Male Voice Choir and YouTube - how very lovely.

 

[Captain Kernow]

6 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

These three images and others like them from an old "GWR Steam in Wales" book have been a big source of inspiration over the years. 

 

 

I agree with you completely!

 

The photo of Cresselly Crossing in particular has always been a favourite of mine.

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

I agree with you completely!

 

The photo of Cresselly Crossing in particular has always been a favourite of mine.

 

I must be missing something but I'll ask anyway.

 

Why is there a "Crossing No Gates" sign right in front of a gated crossing?

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I must be missing something but I'll ask anyway.

 

Why is there a "Crossing No Gates" sign right in front of a gated crossing?

The only thing I can think of is that there is another, non-BR, line on the other side of the level crossing, without the BR gates. I can think of places where this occured in the Llanelli area; by the Old Castle pub, where the gates were for the L&MMR line, not the parallel Stradey Estates Railway.

[The Johnster]

Ungated NCB line just before crossing,  operated by flagman.  Can just be made out behind the red coat lady and little boy. 

[Happy Hippo]

40 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Ungated NCB line just before crossing,  operated by flagman.  Can just be made out behind the red coat lady and little boy. 

SRS diagrams are always good news as they also give a better understanding of what trackage was at certain locations:

 

 https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwn/S1750.htm

 

And just to pay homage to the purpose of this thread, the diagram from Cwm Prysor, whilst the loop was still extant:

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gww/S3285.htm

Edited May 9, 2019 by Happy Hippo
keyboard malfunction

[mikemeg]

Did I say the Falstaff speech in Shakespeare's Richard II, in a posting above? It isn't! It is in that play but spoken by John of Gaunt. Worth reading or listening to; just Google 'This Royal throne of kings.....'

 

Back to Cwm Prysor and things ex-GWR!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by mikemeg

[The Johnster]

John of Gaunt’s speech gets me one of my soapboxes, as it is almost never quoted in full.  Gaunt is voicing his opinion of the mess Richard II has made of England, which he equates incorrectly to the entire island of Britain to the perpetual irritation of every Scot or Welshman who’s ever read it in his eulogy of the place, continues for some time after ‘this England!’ to describe the downfall of a once great Nation from the glory days of Edward III and the Black Prince.  

 

What he’s referring to, of course, is the war in France, which hasn’t been going well under Richard’s leadership. The French, aided by Joan of Arc, who Shakespeare calls Joan la Pucelle (shepherdess), have made a lot of ground.  Richard has further antagonised the ruling class, typified by the likes of Gaunt, by handing out plum jobs that they considered theirs by right to his chums, some of whom are lowborn.  It is no coincidence that Wat Tyler’s revolting peasants burned his London palace, the Savoy, and did not attack the King’s. 

 

Gaunt is also upset at the at the end of serfdom and having to pay wages to the lower orders in the wake of the labour shortage following the Black Death, which took out about a third of the population.  This can hardly be laid at the King’s door of course, but he considers that not enough has been done to restore the old order.  

 

He’s doing ok, though; he owns most of Monmouthshire as well as being Duke of Lancaster; he’s the richest man in the country and as a palatine and Marcher Lord has considerable power to raise his own armies, the only thing that counted in those days. He can topple the King, and when Richard’s depression and loss of grip on power gives him the chance, does so, replacing him with his own son Henry Bolingbroke, but does not live to see this. 

 

So so this great speech is made in praise of a belittled England whose glory will be re-asserted by Bolingbroke, Henry IV, and Gaunt’s grandson, Henry V at the great battle of Agincourt, the climax of this series of historical plays.  It’s good storytelling by Stratford Bill, who knew a thing or two about that sort of thing, setting up a situation early in the tale, a wrong to be righted, a balance to be restored.   It is not, as it is usually part quoted, a eulogy to England; it is actually a condemnation of what England has become under Richard in Gaunt’s view. 

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

The French, aided by Joan of Arc, who Shakespeare calls Joan la Pucelle (shepherdess), have made a lot of ground. 

 

Pucelle = virgin.

 

Old joke:

What's the difference between Noah's ark, Joan of Arc and Paddington?

 

Noah's ark is made of wood, Joan of Arc is Maid of Orleans, and Paddington is Maida Vale.

[The Johnster]

She's on the cast list as Joan le Pucelle, a sheperdess, hence my misinterpretation.

[Tom F]

Something arrived today and is currently running in. Needs some minor alterations......all I'm saying is, it's not for Bala!

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by 9793

[Guest WM183]

Well, I just binged all 55 pages of this thread, and i have to say that it has been an enjoyable few hours! Amazing modelling here, and a load of inspiration for my own fledgling Welsh branch layout. The weathering on your stock in particular just blows my mind!