My first layout (ever) - kinda TMD Era 8/9

[Ted-ish]

Hello all,

 

I'm planning my first ever layout. I'd like prototypical but doesn't have to be a replica, as this will essentially be my test build for everything.

As a novice, I'm not entirely sure I'm using the correct terminology as I'm finding it tricky to find real photos of real yards etc.

I'm open to suggestions, here's my start:

Era: 8/9
Stock: mid-90's yard, diesel bias and freight

Scene: TMD next to a main line
Size: 5-6ft x 2-3ft (table top style)

 

 

2 loops, siding, TMD and fiddle yard (too big?)

I'd really like to see examples of real life and models - if you know any, please do share.

[Wherry Lines]

First of all, it would be useful to know what the baseboard size(s) would be.  But looking at the plan, I think you've tried to put too much track onto the boards. I think a 'less is more' approach would be better, especially in N-gauge.

 

Secondly, the track gets very close to the edge of the board in places.

[JeffP]

There needs to be a headshunt off the track leading to the TMD off the mainline.

Ditto for the building shown bottom right.

 

The TMD would be better if it contained a run round loop.

 

See if you can find a plan of Landore, Swansea online, or look here:  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/265831/195226/13/100951

[The Johnster]

Headshunts are needed to enable shunting movements to take place in the TMD yard and whatever the other yard is without interfering with traffic on the main running lines; this will, as well as being more prototypical, enable you to operate within the TMD yard while trains are passing on the main lines.  I'd say you've tried to cram too much in as well; it the outer main line is next to a wall the trains will hit it, and the roads in the TMD should have some space between them; this is a working area and equipment needs to be brought up alongside the locos; at least 1cm between the sides of the locos in N.  If the sidings at the back are for loco stabling only, they are fine as they are.  Modern loco live out in the open, and only need to come inside for servicing.

 

The run around is desirable, but not essential; if you don't have it, there needs to be an 08 shed pilot for moving dead engines and the fuel tanks.  Speaking of fuel, where's the refuelling facility?  

 

I don't like the facing crossover, and feel that the prototype in this situation would be a trailing one close to the shed outlet.  

 

The width is quite a lot if you go much over 2', as you will have to unless you are restricting yourself to the sharpest set track curves, for reaching from the front to the hidden part at the back; you will have to do this for track cleaning and rescuing derailments if you have your table up against a wall, fine if you have access all round.

 

Apart from that, it's fine!  You are thinking in the right way and with a few modifications this should be a successful layout.  Let us know how you are getting on as matters progress.

[Ted-ish]

First of all, it would be useful to know what the baseboard size(s) would be.  But looking at the plan, I think you've tried to put too much track onto the boards. I think a 'less is more' approach would be better, especially in N-gauge.

 

Secondly, the track gets very close to the edge of the board in places.

 

Thanks, sorry if it wasn't clear but this is a max 6x3ft. Sides where it gets close would be behind scenery so just some perspex to stop anything falling off.

 

 

There needs to be a headshunt off the track leading to the TMD off the mainline.

Ditto for the building shown bottom right.

 

The TMD would be better if it contained a run round loop.

 

See if you can find a plan of Landore, Swansea online, or look here:  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/265831/195226/13/100951

 

Thank you - I thought a run-round was a headshunt?

Also, great link - I didn't know of that site.

 

 

Headshunts are needed to enable shunting movements to take place in the TMD yard and whatever the other yard is without interfering with traffic on the main running lines; this will, as well as being more prototypical, enable you to operate within the TMD yard while trains are passing on the main lines.  I'd say you've tried to cram too much in as well; it the outer main line is next to a wall the trains will hit it, and the roads in the TMD should have some space between them; this is a working area and equipment needs to be brought up alongside the locos; at least 1cm between the sides of the locos in N.  If the sidings at the back are for loco stabling only, they are fine as they are.  Modern loco live out in the open, and only need to come inside for servicing.

 

The run around is desirable, but not essential; if you don't have it, there needs to be an 08 shed pilot for moving dead engines and the fuel tanks.  Speaking of fuel, where's the refuelling facility?  

 

I don't like the facing crossover, and feel that the prototype in this situation would be a trailing one close to the shed outlet.  

 

The width is quite a lot if you go much over 2', as you will have to unless you are restricting yourself to the sharpest set track curves, for reaching from the front to the hidden part at the back; you will have to do this for track cleaning and rescuing derailments if you have your table up against a wall, fine if you have access all round.

 

Apart from that, it's fine!  You are thinking in the right way and with a few modifications this should be a successful layout.  Let us know how you are getting on as matters progress.

 

Very detailed - thank you! To answer:

 

The mini yard on the bottom was going to be for fuel, so 1 shed (blue block) and a siding with fuel rails. But thinking about it, that's probably not prototypical?

 

Noted on the spacing between TMD lines.

 

The 'beige/brown' area of the layout was behind backboard so fiddle yard and un-modelled.

 

I have an 08. I like the idea of a shed for it - if that's what you mean?

 

Sorry, I don't understand "facing crossover"? I'm new!

 

Sharp curves at back, but soft at front. I don't like trains speeding around, so they'll be running 40-50mph (scale) at most.

 

Again, thank you for the comprehensive reply and ideas.

[Ted-ish]

I've had another crack at the TMD.

 

I think this is more prototypical?

 

1. Access to all 4 shed lanes from the mainline (in).
2. Refueling bays x2 can be bypassed.
3. Shunting siding has plenty of room and sweeps wide around the edge.

 

Green comes from and goes to mainline, they are not the actual main line (loop).

 

Does this seem 'legit'?

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Ted-ish

[5BarVT]

Sorry, I don't understand "facing crossover"? I'm new!

We were all new sometime (even me!).

A facing point is one where the point blades determine which way you go, a trailing point is on where you have no choice as there is only one exit. All points are facing in one direction and trailing in the other. Moving on to a crossover, on your plan, you approach the points in a facing direction (assuming left hand running). Traditionally, railways preferred trailing crossovers to facing and that can still be seen in many layouts.

On your original plan, to get between the two blue sheds required five moves, whereas if your crossover were trailing, it would only require three: out onto the main line, reverse through the crossover, reverse again into the other shed.

Hope that helps,

Paul.

[5BarVT]

You might find this post useful: Clive talks a lot of sense about depot layouts and his post shows lots of different ways. Your revised plan has the basics, but you could do as much with fewer points and look more realistic!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128441-1980s-diesel-depot/?p=2935638yy

 

A google search (other search engines are available) on ‘Gateshead diesel depot track layout’ will bring up photos and a track layout, and you will see how Clives ideas follow prototype practice.

Paul.

[Ted-ish]

We were all new sometime (even me!).

A facing point is one where the point blades determine which way you go, a trailing point is on where you have no choice as there is only one exit. All points are facing in one direction and trailing in the other. Moving on to a crossover, on your plan, you approach the points in a facing direction (assuming left hand running). Traditionally, railways preferred trailing crossovers to facing and that can still be seen in many layouts.

On your original plan, to get between the two blue sheds required five moves, whereas if your crossover were trailing, it would only require three: out onto the main line, reverse through the crossover, reverse again into the other shed.

Hope that helps,

Paul.

 

I think I get it - thank you.

 

You might find this post useful: Clive talks a lot of sense about depot layouts and his post shows lots of different ways. Your revised plan has the basics, but you could do as much with fewer points and look more realistic!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128441-1980s-diesel-depot/?p=2935638yy

 

A google search (other search engines are available) on ‘Gateshead diesel depot track layout’ will bring up photos and a track layout, and you will see how Clives ideas follow prototype practice.

Paul.

This is a really helpful link, thanks!

[The Johnster]

Sorry, making assumptions about what you knew already, please accept my apologies.  A run around is a loop or arrangement of two sets of points by which a locomotive can uncouple from one end of a train, draw (move) forwards across one set of points, then reverse (set back in railwayese) around it's train through the other set and then couple to the train at the other end, so that it can pull it back where it came.  A headshunt is simply a single track along which a shunting engine can pull a number of wagons clear of a point so that it can put them into another siding, without going 'out' on to the main line; it usually runs alongside the main line.  In some parts of the country I believe they are called shunting spurs or necks.  Prototypical track layouts usually include these except where traffic is very light, in order to be able to perform shunting movements without disturbing or delaying the traffic on the main line.

 

What you are calling 'lanes' are usually called sidings or roads (from the days of the 'iron road'); you will become more familiar with these sort of terms as time progresses.  Points are sometimes called turnouts, the more correct word.  

 

May be it's time for someone to come up with a glossary of railway terminology for newbies; don't look at me, I've got a layout to run!

[Ted-ish]

Okay, I was looking at this layout from Clive:

 

 

I like it, flipped on the horizontal line for my layout.

 

However, there's one bugbear - trains can come IN to the yard, but to get out they have to reverse on to the mainline? That seems, odd.

 

Wouldn't it be better with a diamond above headshunt A's point - and changing the breakdown siding in to a feed back on to the mainline?

Edited August 29, 2018 by Ted-ish

[stivesnick]

Hi

 

One of the things to think about when creating a depot based layout is why is the depot there in the first place. The modern railway actually has very few depots and they are generally located close to a major freight yard or source of traffic. In planning the layout, it is worth deciding where this yard is as this is the direction that most of the locos would enter or leave the scenic section.

 

If the yard is close by, there was often a separate track that connected the depot to the yard, this allows for frequent loco movements with out affecting the traffic on the main line. If access to the depot is off a loop, then it would be worth considering extending that loop back to the fiddle yard area where they could be a few extra sidings to store locos in the fiddle yard.

 

Another suggestion is to use the Peco setrack curved points in the fiddle yard, this would give you much longer tracks in the fiddle yard, either to have longer trains or to store two shorter trains on each track.

 

Hope this is useful and makes sense.

[DavidMcKenzie]

Hi

 

I am also 'new' to modelling. One thing I would recommend from my experiences of the layout I am underway with (also my first) is to keep it as simple as possible whilst adding interest.

 

I think there are plenty of guys here with more experience than me for detailed advice, but some examples of simple track plans that have given really interesting and realistic n gauge layout yards are linked below (not all TMD, but hopefully they give you an idea of how an overly complex track plan is not needed for a realistic and interesting layout):

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/30801-horseley-fields-n-gauge-layout-was-dibben-junction/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/13279-milton-grove-n-gauge-1985-2000/page-10

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108424-sarum-town-formally-n-gauge-home-layout/page-10

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51389-smithdown-road-junction/?hl=%2Bsmithdown+%2Broad+%2Bjunction

 

Good luck with you project and keep us posted on progress.

 

All the best

Dave

[DavidMcKenzie]

_{I've just stumbled across this layout and thought it was another good example of how much interest can be achieved without making an overly complex track plan. It might be of interest to you.}

 

 

_{http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79381-speke-east-sidings-minimum-space-modern-n-gauge/page-1}

 

 

_{All the best}

 

_Dave

 

[Ted-ish]

Thanks David, some really useful links there that have helped me tweak a few bits.

 

This is the now 90inch wide (started off 60) version:



The idea here is that there's a loop for refuelling and that will be the busy area, with locos waiting and cycling around. With head shunts to accommodate.

The TMD will have more stationary and stored trains, those that need access to the main line simply sit in the head shunt if there's 2 or more locos refueling, then cycle round as they leave.

There's a little 4 wagon refuelling siding near the tanks.

There's a large siding for a full length 16-17 single boggie wagons. Can be used a bypass too, or for shunting wagons before refuelling if the loco has wagons.

Then of course the main twin loop.

Not completely prototypical, but seems like it will be interesting to operate?

Edited August 31, 2018 by Ted-ish