RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) But is a loco introduced in the mid-1970s modern modern image? IMHO it is not even that modern if you really get down to it. And If to most 7mm modellers it is, then I'm afraid it only illustrates just how stuck in the past 7mm scale is. I suspect modern modern image might be defined as any diesel that was not in green livery or that initially worked alongside steam in revenue-earning service. If that is the case, then I fear for the longer-term future of O Gauge. DJP[/quote I think O gauge modern has a place, but I’m told the O gauge guild shows show the O gauge demographics are firmly older and steam I’m slightly worried bu the assertion that the 60 didn’t sell well ( true ? Who knows ) as that spans 90s to current with as wider liveries as you could want. And the failure of JLTRT tells us what ? I’m not certain , but that there is room for only one or two players in this area ? Just a different niche than the one you occupy? The demise of JLTRT (IMHO) will have been, at least in part, driven by O-gauge r-t-r diminishing their volumes sufficiently to render it no longer viable. The same kind of "thinning-out" that has been happening over the past two decades in 4mm scale. Heljan, Dapol, Ixion etc. have changed the 7mm market fundamentally. Some of their volume will have come from newcomers to the scale, but it's inevitable that they affect the demand for kits, too. My guess is that interest in the steam-diesel interface will remain strong long after those of us who "were there" are no longer "here", purely because of the scope and variety it offers for both modelling and collecting. The trade has a vested interest in its continuing popularity. Why market steam and non-steam models to different groups when you can cater for those who will eagerly buy both? The future challenge for "real modern image" will be how to avoid fragmentation into a host of micro-eras, each no longer than the life of a franchise, and with none having a wide enough following to support a model railway industry in the form or anything approaching the size that currently exists. What demand will exist for models of 2018 trains in 2038, I wonder? I may well not be around to be proved right or wrong, but I'd hazard a guess it will be less than that for 1958 trains.... John Edited September 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Green 33 for me Happy bunny! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2018 What demand will exist for models of 2018 trains in 2038, I wonder? John The rise of S4 after someone launches an r-t-r Electrostar? We can all reminisce in the great Telford in the sky! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Knowing Heljan's interest in prototypes with low production numbers in service, hopefully the 'oo' gauge angular railcar will lead to the twin car version and parcels version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Knowing Heljan's interest in prototypes with low production numbers in service, hopefully the 'oo' gauge angular railcar will lead to the twin car version and parcels version. Not bothered about No 34 as the Hornby/Lima version is quite acceptable and the motor is well hidden. The twinsets however would be great although my Westward kit I have is perfect for me. I would be tempted by the other pair as I have 35/36. The railcars are a good choice for Heljan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
56038 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Good stuff, although not directly relevant to my modelling needs. To add to the wish lists a retooled class 26 to a 27 would be most useful! - the Clayton is a good shout, bigger than a shunter but would find a place on small layouts.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 Knowing Heljan's interest in prototypes with low production numbers in service, hopefully the 'oo' gauge angular railcar will lead to the twin car version and parcels version. I have discussed this; initially very, very unlikely due to cost of tooling for variants of limited numbers, complex variety and/or limited liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 In the 80s I worked coal trains from Betteshanger. Class 33/0 or 33/2 and 17 MCV/MXV trains. They used to go to Orgreave Coking Works. Happy days before grim and sad times....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 given the size and often the limited space O gauge modellers have i dont see the point in the models have heavy haulage capability of they are ony ever going to haul half a dozen wagons or a coach or two. not really going to see a 56 hauling 30 odd MGR hoppers or a rake of 12 coaches on a typical layout or plank . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 given the size and often the limited space O gauge modellers have i dont see the point in the models have heavy haulage capability of they are ony ever going to haul half a dozen wagons or a coach or two. not really going to see a 56 hauling 30 odd MGR hoppers or a rake of 12 coaches on a typical layout or plank . But by the same token it doesn't stop the large steam loco types such as 9Fs, Duchess, Brittania, King and Castle being very popular in 7mm! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d winpenny Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 ThaneofFife Have you not seen heaton lodge junction on here would definitely fit a full rake, get what your saying most people won't have the space (or the possibly the money) but would you not be disappointed if you bought a model and you had say a garden railway and the space but your model could barely pull the skin off a rice pudding David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullCityB17 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I think it makes more sense to go for the later style , there’s not any liveries they could do on a Romanian one that they couldn’t on a later ? I’m also unsure that the tiny modern modern image O gauge market could support such a minor variant . If they sort the gears out, I could be well tempted by a 33 or 47 in future Wake up at the back. Heljan have already sorted out the gears so that is a non issue. Already mentioned on other threads. Next you will be asking them to sort out the Mazak issue out too... There are a few detailing differences to the Romanian 56's. Not really a case of carrying the same liveries. First of all the have a smaller nose grill. Then the cab windows are rounded, as mentioned earlier some has a rubber seal around the high intensity headlight whilst others have the square headlight. 56007 has square buffers, the rest AFAIK all have round buffer heads, I would like to know whether it will be fitted with the standard round high intensity headlight for 56070-56135 or the later style square headlight as I have seen pictures of some of this batch carrying both styles (not at the same time). Also, I am guessing 56077 is not going to be a general release with the MGR Working Yellow Belisha Beacon Warning lights. So, will this be produced as an optional extra by a kit manufacturer or will someone produce 56077 as a Special Edition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Wake up at the back. Heljan have already sorted out the gears so that is a non issue. Already mentioned on other threads. Next you will be asking them to sort out the Mazak issue out too... There are a few detailing differences to the Romanian 56's. Not really a case of carrying the same liveries. First of all the have a smaller nose grill. Then the cab windows are rounded, as mentioned earlier some has a rubber seal around the high intensity headlight whilst others have the square headlight. 56007 has square buffers, the rest AFAIK all have round buffer heads, I would like to know whether it will be fitted with the standard round high intensity headlight for 56070-56135 or the later style square headlight as I have seen pictures of some of this batch carrying both styles (not at the same time). Also, I am guessing 56077 is not going to be a general release with the MGR Working Yellow Belisha Beacon Warning lights. So, will this be produced as an optional extra by a kit manufacturer or will someone produce 56077 as a Special Edition? Have they ? Why are people buying those lovely metal turned gears for them then . All I’m querying is if the market is there to go to the effort of making a Romanian one as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullCityB17 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 The gears were for the early build locos. Not been any issues with the Class 05 or 37 with centre headcode panels or the Class 60’s. As regards to people wanting the Romanian Class 56, I would say they need to cover all the range as they have not specifically asked whether people want the Romanian batch, 56031-56069, the batch they plan to do or 56301-312. It is as bizarre as the person who decided not to do the Class 14 and instead that they assumed that the Falcon would be a better seller. They just made assumptions based on the OO Gauge model but ended up making themselves look foolish as on the HJ returns stand this was the only model left that was still sat there at the end of the day. Where everything else sold probably within the first 30mins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Right , fair enough, thanks for the gen. Do we think the new UK rep will be able to inspire them to greater choices ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I would like to know whether it will be fitted with the standard round high intensity headlight for 56070-56135 or the later style square headlight as I have seen pictures of some of this batch carrying both styles (not at the same time).Also, I am guessing 56077 is not going to be a general release with the MGR Working Yellow Belisha Beacon Warning lights. So, will this be produced as an optional extra by a kit manufacturer or will someone produce 56077 as a Special Edition? It will have the standard flat headlight. It was 56073+074 that had the flashing lights by the way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedman Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 But also remember the Doncaster & Crewe builds were different as the Crew ones had the additional cabside/roof vents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullCityB17 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Thanks Brian for the correction. Also I didn’t know about the additional vents... you learn something new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 But is a loco introduced in the mid-1970s modern modern image? IMHO it is not even that modern if you really get down to it. And If to most 7mm modellers it is, then I'm afraid it only illustrates just how stuck in the past 7mm scale is. I suspect modern modern image might be defined as any diesel that was not in green livery or that initially worked alongside steam in revenue-earning service. If that is the case, then I fear for the longer-term future of O Gauge. DJP Modern Image is basically a term from the "modernisation of British Rail" diesels and electrics from the end of steam to current times is modern image, so class 56's are indeed, modern image 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Modern Image is basically a term from the "modernisation of British Rail" diesels and electrics from the end of steam to current times is modern image, so class 56's are indeed, modern image I agree with your definition but it’s a brave man who tries to define modern image Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2018 I agree with your definition but it’s a brave man who tries to define modern image ALL railway modelling, unless every aspect of the chosen prototype remains unchanged today is "historical" unless it's freelance, in which case you can write your own rules. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I agree with your definition but it’s a brave man who tries to define modern image Was it not anything after kettles ? Best regards Craig 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2018 Was it not anything after kettles ? Best regards Craig When I started spotting BR Standards were 'Modern Image'. I gave up when 21A closed to steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Heljan, Dapol, Ixion etc. have changed the 7mm market fundamentally. Some of their volume will have come from newcomers to the scale, but it's inevitable that they affect the demand for kits, too. John Yes, I'm new to O scale. I've started on a BR(SR) shunting plank layout, about 10' in length, to get the feel of things! An 08 and a few Mineral Wagons, all from Dapol. I'm not interested in building rolling stock kits, though buildings are a different matter. As for the Heljan 33 in BR Blue, I'm very interested! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Excellent news, that will be another Heljan Type-5 that will spend most of its time in the box! Cannot wait to get a Large Logo one, thank you Heljan. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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