Bachmann 2018 mid-year update

[adb968008]

Look at the 4 Cep a few years ago Hatton's where selling them for £69.99, Do you think shops like Hatton's are taking a hit on sales, I don't think so.

So i wonder what the mark up is for them to be able to sell them at that price and not loss money?.

You surely don’t begrudge a company making money ?

That is there raison d’etre, however they have to take rough with the smooth.

 

There might be a reasonable margin between trade and RRP, but when you subtract discounts, then add in overheads (staff, taxes, building etc etc) it’s soon eaten... then one bum line that doesn’t sell.. your profits gone and your scrambling to get cash back.

 

Profit is sum of the whole, not necessarily the individual parts, sometimes items are held in stock for years, tieing up money, which might be costing interest,or at a minimum preventing purchasing other lines, and takes up space that business rates, heating, security, insurance, electricity etc are being consumed whilst they sit pretty on the shelf, slowly decaying at the hands of each person who touches but doesn’t buy...

 

As you point out an example of a long time since sold EMU, how about considering this item... it was model of the year 7 years ago, still more than 10 In stock new..

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/34525/Dapol_10001HAP_10001_BR_Brunswick_green_with_orange_black_orange_lining_Aug_1956_Oct_1957_/StockDetail.aspx,

 

According to this post, money was first spent 9 years ago.., no idea the P&L of it, but whilst it’s in stock, it’s not cash earning money elsewhere, and presumably was present during and after the aforementioned CEP.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19581-hattons-announce-lms-twins/

Edited September 10, 2018 by adb968008

[paul 27]

Some Bachmann models that surprised me, in not selling out for about 3 years, were the Porthole coaches. They were a steam era model and were produced in crimson/cream livery. It took 4 years to get the models produced as they had to be redesigned and in production the brake third was rejected with livery errors. Bachmann invested in 6 coach types with two chassis lengths. They had to rework remaining stock with weathering to finally sell them to retailers, however the reworking probably had limited appeal as the running numbers weren't changed. The prototypes only had 3 liveries -BR crimson/cream, maroon and blue/grey, with only a few painted in blue/grey. So it took Bachmann 6 years from the medels original announcement to go for the second and arguably more saleable livery of BR maroon and that livery looks like it will be 2 years after announcement, before it gets to retailers. The maroon livery is the version I'm interested in, so it's been a long and frustrating wait since the announcement. Contrast that timescale with another pre nationalisation coach design, produced post nationalisation by BR - the Hawksworth mainline coach. Hornby's model was announced about the same time as the Porthole coaches and in the intervening period Hornby have produced all five coach styles in 3 different liveries and have this year released BR blood/custard versions for the second time. For the Portholes to have such a lengthy period to be both produced and remain in stock, must have been a loss if their tooling costs were accounted for in the first year they were made, particularly if Bachmann had to pay for the revisions that required new tooling. I wonder if this is going to be repeated with the Thompson coach stock, where again the BR maroon livery has not been produced with the initial runs. I recall that when the previously tooled Thompson coaches were produced in circa 1991, the BR c/c and maroon liveries were both issued as the first releases with the faux teak as a later release. Bachmann has spent some time and presumably cost in producing the current model in faux teak, but for a short lived livery is it a seller, when surely the maroon would have brought in much higher sales in the first year.

 

 

Totally agree why not make maroon liveries first, the same with Hornby Suburbans  no maroon lined livery, then I am 60s biased and always think  this is the most popular period.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by paul 27

[Covkid]

Some Bachmann models that surprised me, in not selling out for about 3 years, were the Porthole coaches. They were a steam era model and were produced in crimson/cream livery. It took 4 years to get the models produced as they had to be redesigned and in production the brake third was rejected with livery errors. Bachmann invested in 6 coach types with two chassis lengths. They had to rework remaining stock with weathering to finally sell them to retailers, however the reworking probably had limited appeal as the running numbers weren't changed. The prototypes only had 3 liveries -BR crimson/cream, maroon and blue/grey, with only a few painted in blue/grey. So it took Bachmann 6 years from the medels original announcement to go for the second and arguably more saleable livery of BR maroon and that livery looks like it will be 2 years after announcement, before it gets to retailers. The maroon livery is the version I'm interested in, so it's been a long and frustrating wait since the announcement. Contrast that timescale with another pre nationalisation coach design, produced post nationalisation by BR - the Hawksworth mainline coach. Hornby's model was announced about the same time as the Porthole coaches and in the intervening period Hornby have produced all five coach styles in 3 different liveries and have this year released BR blood/custard versions for the second time. For the Portholes to have such a lengthy period to be both produced and remain in stock, must have been a loss if their tooling costs were accounted for in the first year they were made, particularly if Bachmann had to pay for the revisions that required new tooling. I wonder if this is going to be repeated with the Thompson coach stock, where again the BR maroon livery has not been produced with the initial runs. I recall that when the previously tooled Thompson coaches were produced in circa 1991, the BR c/c and maroon liveries were both issued as the first releases with the faux teak as a later release. Bachmann has spent some time and presumably cost in producing the current model in faux teak, but for a short lived livery is it a seller, when surely the maroon would have brought in much higher sales in the first year.

 

 

Totally agree why not make maroon liveries first, the same with Hornby Suburbans  no maroon lined livery, then I am 60s biased and always think  this is the most popular period.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. At the time Bachmann announced the "portholes" I would have had seven assorted maroon ones to form an early 1960s LMR rake. Time has dragged on and the maroon "portholes" still haven't arrived, so I have "invested" in a few more Hornby Staniers. I will now only bother with one or maybe two maroon "portholes" when they eventually appear, to augment the Hornby rake.

 

Not that Bachmann will probably miss the sale of half a dozen to me, but if there were a hundred people in the same frame of mind as me then Bachmann would potentially lose easily over five hundred individual sales. To a much lesser degree in my circumstance are the Bachmann maroon Thompsons. I wanted half a rake or maroons to mix with maroon Mk1s for an excursion rake. My focus has shifted just slightly and i bought a couple of significantly reduced Hornby maroon Gresleys instead.

 

I like Bachmann products (class 24/25 excepted) and the blue boxes are quite prominent in my collection at the moment   

[Dunsignalling]

You surely don’t begrudge a company making money ?

That is there raison d’etre, however they have to take rough with the smooth.

 

There might be a reasonable margin between trade and RRP, but when you subtract discounts, then add in overheads (staff, taxes, building etc etc) it’s soon eaten... then one bum line that doesn’t sell.. your profits gone and your scrambling to get cash back.

 

Profit is sum of the whole, not necessarily the individual parts, sometimes items are held in stock for years, tieing up money, which might be costing interest,or at a minimum preventing purchasing other lines, and takes up space that business rates, heating, security, insurance, electricity etc are being consumed whilst they sit pretty on the shelf, slowly decaying at the hands of each person who touches but doesn’t buy...

 

As you point out an example of a long time since sold EMU, how about considering this item... it was model of the year 7 years ago, still more than 10 In stock new..

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/34525/Dapol_10001HAP_10001_BR_Brunswick_green_with_orange_black_orange_lining_Aug_1956_Oct_1957_/StockDetail.aspx,

 

According to this post, money was first spent 9 years ago.., no idea the P&L of it, but whilst it’s in stock, it’s not cash earning money elsewhere, and presumably was present during and after the aforementioned CEP.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19581-hattons-announce-lms-twins/

In the case of the EMu, Bachmann will have done a deal with Hatton's to offload the "leftovers" when it became apparent that sales were drying up.

 

The price will have been calculated accordingly, and won't  have been anything like the trade price ruling at the time the model was first released. Hatton's will have made an offer based on how long the quantities involved are expected to hang around and what think they can get for them.

 

That's the point at which Bachmann take a loss (or reduced profit), and it ceases to be their problem unless they are daft enough to re-run the model.

 

Hatton's have been involved in this kind of clearance operation since Hornby Dublo went down the tubes (if not earlier) so clearly have both the expertise and the financial clout to make it work for them.

 

Hatton's own commissioned models of the LMS twins were originally sold at around £120 (IIRC) and I'd imagine their costs were covered by the versions that did sell out. It's therefore unlikely to bother them too much if it takes a couple more years to shift their remaining green 10001s.  

 

I have a Dapol-Hatton's 10001 in the condition it ran on the Southern Region, which Bachmann haven't done, and a Bachmann 10000 in green bought on a whim at a show. TBH, I don't think there's much to choose between them cosmetically and I reckon my 10001 is the more powerful of the two.

 

John

 

(edited to correct my erroneous interpretation of the previous post)

Edited September 11, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[trevor7598]

Some Bachmann models that surprised me, in not selling out for about 3 years, were the Porthole coaches. They were a steam era model and were produced in crimson/cream livery. It took 4 years to get the models produced as they had to be redesigned and in production the brake third was rejected with livery errors. Bachmann invested in 6 coach types with two chassis lengths. They had to rework remaining stock with weathering to finally sell them to retailers, however the reworking probably had limited appeal as the running numbers weren't changed. The prototypes only had 3 liveries -BR crimson/cream, maroon and blue/grey, with only a few painted in blue/grey. So it took Bachmann 6 years from the medels original announcement to go for the second and arguably more saleable livery of BR maroon and that livery looks like it will be 2 years after announcement, before it gets to retailers. The maroon livery is the version I'm interested in, so it's been a long and frustrating wait since the announcement. Contrast that timescale with another pre nationalisation coach design, produced post nationalisation by BR - the Hawksworth mainline coach. Hornby's model was announced about the same time as the Porthole coaches and in the intervening period Hornby have produced all five coach styles in 3 different liveries and have this year released BR blood/custard versions for the second time. For the Portholes to have such a lengthy period to be both produced and remain in stock, must have been a loss if their tooling costs were accounted for in the first year they were made, particularly if Bachmann had to pay for the revisions that required new tooling. I wonder if this is going to be repeated with the Thompson coach stock, where again the BR maroon livery has not been produced with the initial runs. I recall that when the previously tooled Thompson coaches were produced in circa 1991, the BR c/c and maroon liveries were both issued as the first releases with the faux teak as a later release. Bachmann has spent some time and presumably cost in producing the current model in faux teak, but for a short lived livery is it a seller, when surely the maroon would have brought in much higher sales in the first year.

One reason for poor sales of the Bachmann Porthole coaches, if indeed sales were poor, has much to do with the prototypes chosen.

There are three all first class coaches in the range, open 1st, side corridor 1st and brake 1st. Not only were the prototypes built in low

numbers, but they were niche vehicles used only on the best LMR expresses. This was bound to limit their appeal.

The other three types in the range are more useful to modellers, and have probably sold well.

 

I personally thought that the design of the bogies was horrible. When I opened the box of my Porthole composite a wheelset fell on the floor

and another was loose in the ice cube packaging, the result of open ended bogies. On top of that the coaches sat too low. Not one of Bachmann's best efforts.

 

I hope sales of the forthcoming maroon versions will be better, I have a couple earmarked.

[No Decorum]

But, in both cases, Bachmann will have done deals with Hatton's to offload the "hangover" stock when sales began to dry up.

The model of 10001 sitting on Hatton’s shelves was produced by “old regime” Dapol. A later and, in my opinion, superior model was produced by Bachmann. It’s the curse of duplication again. Bachmann is doing a re-run of 10001 (in black, rather than the Dapol green), so the Bachmann models seem to have sold well enough. So they should have. They’re things of beauty.

 

Please allow for bias. I think 10000/1 were the most beautiful diesels ever made.

[locoholic]

....Manufacturers don't deliberately set out to frustrate buyers by not doing the most popular liveries in the first run. ... (CJL)

They definitely do deliberately do the less popular liveries first. Bachmann are especially guilty of this, but Hornby do it too - the BR blue Air-Smoothed Merchant Navy being a recent case in point.

[jjb1970]

I'd be careful about assuming that less common liveries are unpopular liveries. My impression is that some of the less common liveries, such as the blue air smoothed MN are actually popular choices.

[PMP]

When the 4-CEP was released it was rrp of around £135.00 and the discount sellers were at about the mid £80’s for the best deals. The cheapest deals were about four years ago at around the £70.00 price for the early green version, very few blue/grey in comparison. The 2 Car SR electrics from both Bachmann and Hornby were also heavily discounted, and some still are.

 

Looking at a discount supplier for contemporary stock today ( not Hattons ), there are contemporary items from the big manufacturers which have been out for four or five years, retailing at between 25-50% off the rrp, most around the 30% mark. I’m not seeing anything to really get worked up about, costs rise so the rrp has to rise accordingly, yet stock is available at similar levels of discount to five or ten years ago. The change is noticeable in the batch runs I’m led to believe being smaller so there isn’t the same amount of stock produced, that has also given the second hand market a boost too, which if you bought your 4-CEP five years ago heavily discounted, you can get your money back plus some.

[JSpencer]

When the 4-CEP was released it was rrp of around £135.00 and the discount sellers were at about the mid £80’s for the best deals. The cheapest deals were about four years ago at around the £70.00 price for the early green version, very few blue/grey in comparison. The 2 Car SR electrics from both Bachmann and Hornby were also heavily discounted, and some still are.

 

 

 

Not quite, the Blue/Grey CEPs were around £120 discounted then later dropped to the £80. Boy I'm glad I got 2.

 

The Blue Grey NSE logo EPB was around £110 when released but much later dropped to £55 of which I brought one. I did consider the all blue at the same price at the time but my layout was getting cluttered in EPBs by then (Bachmann - Green, Blue Grey NSE, full NSE + Southern Pride Blue Grey EPB). And I was/still hoping at some point to do a full blue 4-EPB using Replica parts...

 

The 2 car HAP looks expensive to me considering I got both my CEPs - representing 8 cars - for less than the HAP discounted price. I'm seriously hesitating over pre-ordering or waiting for the 6 week price embargo to go. As I would like 2 maybe I'll do one pre-ordered and one wait & see.

 

The BEP (4 cars) is likely to cost me more than the rest of the boat train (2 * CEPs + MLV = 9 cars) put togethor!

Edited September 11, 2018 by JSpencer

[Ian Hargrave]

They definitely do deliberately do the less popular liveries first. Bachmann are especially guilty of this, but Hornby do it too - the BR blue Air-Smoothed Merchant Navy being a recent case in point.

Sorry but I can't quite follow your drift.Start by defining what you consider to be a less popular livery.Where does the Hornby blue MN fit into this,considering Hornby have already released 4 versions with the blue one to follow later this year or next ? My first sight of one was in blue so I'll be in the frame for one to start.

 

The first H2 from Bachmann is imminent.That will be in BR black with the Maunsell green to follow.Right then....which one is more popular?

[GordonC]

But, in both cases, Bachmann will have done deals with Hatton's to offload the "hangover" stock when sales began to dry up.

 

The price will have been calculated accordingly, with Hatton's taking a judgement on how long the quantities involved will take to shift at their anticipated retail price. What they paid won't have been anything like the trade price ruling at the time the model was first released.

 

That's the point at which Bachmann take a loss (or reduced profit), and it ceases to be their problem unless they are daft enough to re-run the model.

 

Hatton's have been involved in this kind of clearance operation since Hornby Dublo went down the tubes (if not earlier) so clearly have both the expertise and the financial clout to make it work for them.

 

John

 

They cant be all that bothered about selling them yet when the sales price is only around £10 off RRP.

[adb968008]

But, in both cases, Bachmann will have done deals with Hatton's to offload the "hangover" stock when sales began to dry up.

 

The price will have been calculated accordingly, with Hatton's taking a judgement on how long the quantities involved will take to shift at their anticipated retail price. What they paid won't have been anything like the trade price ruling at the time the model was first released.

 

That's the point at which Bachmann take a loss (or reduced profit), and it ceases to be their problem unless they are daft enough to re-run the model.

 

Hatton's have been involved in this kind of clearance operation since Hornby Dublo went down the tubes (if not earlier) so clearly have both the expertise and the financial clout to make it work for them.

 

John

Actually 10001 was made by Dapol, exclusively for Hattons.

Bachmann doesn’t come into it.

The rest of your argument falls down at that point.

 

However I agree their business model is such they are built to sustain prolonged stock holding to which we have to be thankful, and i’m Sure “we” refers to manufacturers and modellers alike..hence don’t knock em for making money, without them there would be much less of a Hobby.

Edited September 11, 2018 by adb968008

[mevaman]

What some of you don’t appreciate is that retailers will sell at a loss to shift stock. This generates cash and, ultimately, in business cash is king.

 

In a nutshell, Hattons and others will be making losses on some of their lines in order to move excess stock.

['CHARD]

That's simply not the case. Heljan release every variation, from plain green, green with SYP, green with full yellow ends, blue with SYP, blue with pre-TOPS, etc etc. Hornby and Bachmann never get round to the more esoteric options. As a consequence, I have proportionally more Heljan models, and they get more of my money quicker, whilst the blue and yellow teams get just a bit of my money every now and then.

 

We were at crossed purposes.  I don't regard the nuanced variations within BR green as different liveries.  I regard DRS, Freightliner, Colas, GBRailfreight and DB Cargo red as livery variations.  It's a matter of personal perspective.  If I wanted a green Bo-Bo, I'd settle for SYP and paint a FYE if that's what I wanted to run.

Edited September 11, 2018 by 'CHARD

[brushman47544]

I don't regard the nuanced variations within BR green as different liveries. 

 

But some of us do. Ok painting on a SYP or FYE on plain green is not difficult, but it does mean the model is no longer "pristine", which will matter for many. And for DMUs it not so easy, because it usually means the whiskers have to be removed or may show through. And plain green (or e.g. pre-TOPS BR Blue for that matter) can make a difference if there are body tooling differences to take into account. You yourself have justifiably complained that Bachmann has not yet produced a Class 47 in BR Blue with dominoes and serck shutters. I don't know any easy way of producing that using any versions already produced by Bachmann.

 

Personally, I won't buy a plain green loco when I really want a SYP or FYE one, but will wait in the expectation it will appear eventually. If a manufacturer needs to recoup all the development costs etc. from the first production run, the likes of Bachmann and Hornby really should produce more livery variations at that time than they do.

Edited September 11, 2018 by brushman47544

[The Stationmaster]

So the DCR 'limited appeal' 56 only produced because they had already paid for the licensing agreement having produced the 31 ?  Interesting suggestion.   But are Hornby marketing that stupid that they produce a loco only 15% of the market are interested in just because it's production costs are marginal less than other liveries ?

 

M

 

The proof will be in the eating of the DCR Class 56 pudding I suspect.  In other words how many, or what percentage of those produced, have Hornby managed to sell?  I know of one retailer who only took a handful because in his view they wouldn't sell and don't ever overlook the fact that generally retailers tend to be a lot nearer the market than Hornby.  So yes - Hornby marketing might indeed be that stupid and past events with certain Year 2 and Year 3 runs would seem to prove the point.

 

But this thread is about Bachmann and the overall impression which I get is that generally they seem to have a better idea about the market, and particularly how to innovate and develop new markets, than some of their competitors.

[rob D2]

Yes, Bachmann certainly have their finger on the pulse of modern image. Let’s not forget without them we wouldn’t have had any of the Modern wagons which they innovated.

 

I’m hoping they don’t become the Nokia of model railways though, with things like the hattons 66 snapping at their heels

['CHARD]

But some of us do. Ok painting on a SYP or FYE on plain green is not difficult, but it does mean the model is no longer "pristine", which will matter for many. And for DMUs it not so easy, because it usually means the whiskers have to be removed or may show through. And plain green (or e.g. pre-TOPS BR Blue for that matter) can make a difference if there are body tooling differences to take into account. You yourself have justifiably complained that Bachmann has not yet produced a Class 47 in BR Blue with dominoes and serck shutters. I don't know any easy way of producing that using any versions already produced by Bachmann.

 

Personally, I won't buy a plain green loco when I really want a SYP or FYE one, but will wait in the expectation it will appear eventually. If a manufacturer needs to recoup all the development costs etc. from the first production run, the likes of Bachmann and Hornby really should produce more livery variations at that time than they do.

 

I take your points, of course.  I forget the 'pristine' brigade (despite being chums with several), which I realise is a prejudice I should refrain from 

 

I restate the case regarding Bachmann not producing the two most common Brush Type 4 prototypes (not to mention the single most common Class 45/ 46 version):

1. Green with small yellow panel and Serck louvres
2. Blue with glazed black headcode panels (roller blinds or dominoes) and Serck louvres

[Dunsignalling]

Actually 10001 was made by Dapol, exclusively for Hattons.

Bachmann doesn’t come into it.

The rest of your argument falls down at that point.

 

However I agree their business model is such they are built to sustain prolonged stock holding to which we have to be thankful, and i’m Sure “we” refers to manufacturers and modellers alike..hence don’t knock em for making money, without them there would be much less of a Hobby.

I spotted that myself and have amended my post accordingly...thanks anyway.

 

John

[The Johnster]

Couldn't agree more. At the time Bachmann announced the "portholes" I would have had seven assorted maroon ones to form an early 1960s LMR rake. Time has dragged on and the maroon "portholes" still haven't arrived, so I have "invested" in a few more Hornby Staniers. I will now only bother with one or maybe two maroon "portholes" when they eventually appear, to augment the Hornby rake.

 

Not that Bachmann will probably miss the sale of half a dozen to me, but if there were a hundred people in the same frame of mind as me then Bachmann would potentially lose easily over five hundred individual sales. To a much lesser degree in my circumstance are the Bachmann maroon Thompsons. I wanted half a rake or maroons to mix with maroon Mk1s for an excursion rake. My focus has shifted just slightly and i bought a couple of significantly reduced Hornby maroon Gresleys instead.

 

I like Bachmann products (class 24/25 excepted) and the blue boxes are quite prominent in my collection at the moment   

 

Looking at my stock, locos and wagons are predominantly Bachmann. with some Hornby locos and Oxford wagons, but coaching and NPCC stock is predominantly Hornby with some Bachmann.  This is on a WR South Wales BLT, but is a reflection of the different companys' ability to satisfy my requirements for suitable stock; I have no particular affiliation to or dislike of any manufacturer's stuff per se.   I'm satisfied with the realism, finish, build quality and running quality of all my modern stuff, so if a manufacturer is delaying a product that it has announced, and an alternative is available, I'll go for it even if it is of inferior quality like my Limbach 94xx or not quite the same thing like your portholes.

 

It is, IMHO, in the manufacturer's interest to get the product to market as soon as is practicable; the longer they wait the more sales they lose in this way.  As you say. as individuals we make little difference, especially me with my short trains but even if you are buying 10 coach rakes, but taken across the entire market it must have an impact.  Delay also increases the chance of another manufacturer getting in on the act, especially as smaller one like Oxford or Dapol that can react more quickly to the market (though the effect of Hornby's effective takeover of Oxford remains to be seen).  I'd buy an Oxford 94xx tomorrow unless it was really bad!  I mean, I'd go without an 8750 if the only one available was the old Triang Hornby abomination!

 

That said, I'm happy enough with a worked up Triang Hornby 2721, despite it's almost total lack of scale credentials.  Somehow this little thing has a character, which the 8750 doesn't, can't explain it better than that.  Mine's in black austerity Caerphilly Works WW2 livery, and has a chimney, dome, and safety valve from an old Westward 64xx kit, amongst other improvements, which make a big difference to the look.  It took a good bit of faffing with ballast to get her tor run to my satisfaction, and I've invested a lot of time and thought into her, but I like her!

 

But this is another example, or would be if anyone was to produce a version to modern standards; I'd replace her in a heartbeat with something better...

[Legend]

They definitely do deliberately do the less popular liveries first. Bachmann are especially guilty of this, but Hornby do it too - the BR blue Air-Smoothed Merchant Navy being a recent case in point.

There are some odd choices , but I really cant think that manufacturers deliberately make the less popular liveries first . For a start they wouldn't be recovering their money as quick as they could have, which their accountants will certainly not be happy with, particularly with Hornbys financials at the moment . Could it be they just get it wrong? I can imagine in Hornby towers a discussion along the lines of "the main liveries are Southern green and BR green . These will be the ones most sought after , we will make them first . Oh they were blue for a short time too .......Ok we will make that in the second release" . Completely missing the fact that for rebuilt MNs they were blue for a substantial portion of their unrebuilt lives , and its the most attractive livery!

 

But as previously said I think the big two are generally not aware that the market has moved on , and really want most major liveries on first release . Hattons, Dapol and Heljan seem to have cottoned onto this.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Legend

[Legend]

The proof will be in the eating of the DCR Class 56 pudding I suspect.  In other words how many, or what percentage of those produced, have Hornby managed to sell?  I know of one retailer who only took a handful because in his view they wouldn't sell and don't ever overlook the fact that generally retailers tend to be a lot nearer the market than Hornby.  So yes - Hornby marketing might indeed be that stupid and past events with certain Year 2 and Year 3 runs would seem to prove the point.

 

But this thread is about Bachmann and the overall impression which I get is that generally they seem to have a better idea about the market, and particularly how to innovate and develop new markets, than some of their competitors.

I think they know where they want to be in the market in the price/volume equation, which is something Hornby are as yet unsure of. I'd also say they are price leaders in many respects pushing the boundaries. They maybe right in being able to sell at high prices . I used to think they were dead wrong but then I didn't think we would ever see people part with £1000 on an APT or £125 on a coach, admittedly a specialist and beautifully turned out one.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Legend

[Mike Storey]

Not quite, the Blue/Grey CEPs were around £120 discounted then later dropped to the £80. Boy I'm glad I got 2.

 

The Blue Grey NSE logo EPB was around £110 when released but much later dropped to £55 of which I brought one. I did consider the all blue at the same price at the time but my layout was getting cluttered in EPBs by then (Bachmann - Green, Blue Grey NSE, full NSE + Southern Pride Blue Grey EPB). And I was/still hoping at some point to do a full blue 4-EPB using Replica parts...

 

The 2 car HAP looks expensive to me considering I got both my CEPs - representing 8 cars - for less than the HAP discounted price. I'm seriously hesitating over pre-ordering or waiting for the 6 week price embargo to go. As I would like 2 maybe I'll do one pre-ordered and one wait & see.

 

The BEP (4 cars) is likely to cost me more than the rest of the boat train (2 * CEPs + MLV = 9 cars) put togethor!

 

The 2 HAP does look expensive compared to what we have been used to. But I have a feeling it will prove perhaps the most popular of the EMU's produced thus far, given its far wider geographical possibilities (on the SR anyway). We shall see, but if that turns out to be true, it makes me wonder why they did not model this class much earlier.

 

The 4 BEP looks extortionate, but like many, I guess I will have to have at least one, due to the number of 4 CEPs I already have, and they did not just run on boat trains. There was one for a while on the through service from Sheerness to London..... or maybe that was a diagramming error, but I will be representing that on my layout, whatever (Rule 1).

[Chuffed 1]

I also model steam era, and both Hornby and Bachmann have skipped some obvious livery choices - the Hornby Schools has yet to appear in BR green late crest with a single chimney, and we are still waiting for Bachmann's LMS Porthole coaches in BR maroon - just two of many, many examples. Not sure if it's a dangerous game, or just foolish.

Exactly. Why issue something in a less-popular livery - crimson and cream - when the market overwhelmingly prefers maroon? (or BR green as per the forthcoming Bulleids). People won't wait around if a competitor produces something similar in the meantime in the livery they want.

 

What worries me about Bachmann is their product spread - I can understand their prevalence of diesels, after all, like garlic bread, they're the future. But to issue a 121 after Dapol have sated the market and produce a Class 24/1 after SLW have significantly raised the bar with their skinheads? There doesn't appear to be a very joined-up thinking in their future strategy.

 

And remind me how much the price of a mineral wagon has risen in 5 years....

Edited September 12, 2018 by Chuffed 1