locoholic Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Thought I'd put this as a separate thread. Six liveries to start with, two GW and four BR. https://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=342 I must confess that every time I see that Heljan have announced a new 00 gauge model, I hope it will be the Class 120 DMU in 00, but every time I am disappointed... I wonder if I will be persuaded to replace my Limby GW railcars? Or my Bachmann Class 25/3s? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrySVR Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Well that's a Xmas pressie sorted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Well that's a Xmas pressie sorted. Which Christmas would that be ? 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Does this mean I'll be able to retire the battleship armour thickness sided Lima and Hornby offerings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Aha! The “sharpie” version. Temptation looms again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 Does this mean I'll be able to retire the battleship armour thickness sided Lima and Hornby offerings? The K's whitemetal one was also as heavy as a battleship, even though it was supplied without a floor! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Hornby lose out again it seems Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Dunno, what market for Hornby one’s is there after all the years of Lima and Hornby selling them? If I wanted one I’d be looking second hand, not new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snailpace Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I guess they are only doing an 00 one as they are making an 0 gauge one anyway...? As already suggested there are thousands of Lima and the better running Hornby ones around. Better perhaps to make a double car or even better something else! We all have our wish list for new RTR (Aberdare anyone?!), but I'd be surprised to see an AEC railcard on one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I'd be surprised to see an AEC railcard on one... How much is one of those per month, I wonder? And what if any are the travel restrictions.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 If it proves to have an all wheel drive of similarly puissant performance to their class 128, I will be interested to know the bogie wheelbase, distance between bogie pivots or overall vehicle wheelbase, and wheel diameter. Should anyone have this information to hand, pretty please. Might be very useful indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I can see it selling well if done to modern standards and bits don't drop off in transit. After all how many airfix/Hornby old style Castles are out there and it didn't stop Hornby doing an upgrade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 The one point no-one seems to have mentioned is that Heljan have stated they will be doing this after the 0 Gauge one: what’s to stop Hornby jumping in and doing it - it’s a fair bet they could get it out even before Heljan deliver the 0 Gauge one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 The one point no-one seems to have mentioned is that Heljan have stated they will be doing this after the 0 Gauge one: what’s to stop Hornby jumping in and doing it - it’s a fair bet they could get it out even before Heljan deliver the 0 Gauge one... There are no guarantees on deliveries of models these days and I would think the last thing that Hornby needs is to risk another pointless duplication just in the hope that they might steal Helena's thunder. Hornby have always said that a new top of the range model from another manufacturer boosts the demand from younger modellers for their older, cheaper versions. So we're more likely to see the ex-Lima railcar in Railroad in the 2020 range. I would certainly hope that Hornby doesn't try to outdo Heljan. The hobby doesn't need head to head competition at present, when production slots are so hard to obtain and production errors all too frequent. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 There are no guarantees on deliveries of models these days and I would think the last thing that Hornby needs is to risk another pointless duplication just in the hope that they might steal Helena's thunder. Hornby have always said that a new top of the range model from another manufacturer boosts the demand from younger modellers for their older, cheaper versions. So we're more likely to see the ex-Lima railcar in Railroad in the 2020 range. I would certainly hope that Hornby doesn't try to outdo Heljan. The hobby doesn't need head to head competition at present, when production slots are so hard to obtain and production errors all too frequent. (CJL) I suppose its always possible that Hornby already have advanced plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Hi, I wonder if they will develop a low profile mechanism* or a motor bogie?. As has been mentioned it could be a good candidate for chassis parts depending on the dimensions. *The OO Class 128 single car parcels unit with few windows had a very large chassis but could go up a 1 in 5 gradient. Regards Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) I suppose its always possible that Hornby already have advanced plans. I'd be very surprised if they have. Hornby's use of their inherited tooling (ex-Airfix and ex-Lima) has been limited to occasional re-runs but no investment in upgrades beyond replacing the tender drives on the 2P and 4F and the motor bogies on the diesels. I think that was forced on them by tightened electrical interference regulations, in any case. Retooling any of the body mouldings never seems to have crossed anyone's mind, which represents a number of missed opportunities for producing very desirable models IMHO. John Edited September 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I'd be very surprised if they have. Hornby's use of their inherited tooling (ex-Airfix and ex-Lima) has been limited to occasional re-runs but no investment in upgrades beyond replacing the tender drives on the 2P and 4F and the motor bogies on the diesels. I think that was forced on them by tightened electrical interference regulations, in any case. Retooling any of the body mouldings never seems to have crossed anyone's mind, which represents a number of missed opportunities for producing very desirable models IMHO. John But what about what happened quite recently when Hattons announced a King...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Jackson Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 aww, my wallet was doing ok until now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Tempted to use the Hornby example to create the GWR Twin Railcar set... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) But what about what happened quite recently when Hattons announced a King...... That was an upgrade to Hornby tooling that was widely considered "not quite there" already. My comments about the tooling inherited from Airfix and Lima stand. Upgraded versions of the LMS Restaurant car, GW Autotrailer, B-set and Siphons would all do well IMHO. The ex-Lima BR GUV and CCT were left alone too long and Bachmann have made better versions of both. Just the inside-frame Siphon and the LMS 42' GUV left, though an absence of even "Railroad" re-runs possibly suggests the tooling might be past further use. Two more for someone else's attention? Hornby would surely have done something by now if they were ever going to. Hornby have at least replaced the Lima Horsebox (and their own ex-Tri-ang effort) with an all-new model to modern standards, but it was an awful long time coming. What's already happened with the Dean Goods and the 121 "bubblecar", plus the new Terriers and Large Prairies under development elsewhere, now joined by the GW railcar, all point up the dangers of complacency. John Edited September 5, 2018 by Dunsignalling 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 I suppose its always possible that Hornby already have advanced plans. Reputedly Hornby do indeed have advanced plans but they would seem to be a closely guarded secret so we haven't really got a clue what figures in those plans and whether or not someone else might beat them to the pass with a particular model or they might beat somebody else. And no doubt exactly the same can be said of other manufacturers and commissioners and of course inevitably some of those plans have indeed been beaten to the pass as we all know from several examples. The lead times for model development make it inevitable that advanced plans exist and nowadays I suspect it might be almost as inevitable that accidental duplication will occur unless somebody pre-annlounces a model on a very long development lead time. And of course when that does happen loads of folk spend all their time moaning about the delay in bringing the model to market. Seems that whatever they do the manufacturers and commissioners can hardly be blamed for wondering at times if it really is worth doing the job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 Tempted to use the Hornby example to create the GWR Twin Railcar set... I am thinking along the same lines, I have a pair of Lima models that are now very unlikely to get detailed thats now unlikely to happen.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 ...Upgraded versions of the LMS Restaurant car, GW Autotrailer, B-set and Siphons would all do well IMHO. The ex-Lima BR GUV and CCT were left alone too long and Bachmann have made better versions of both. Just the inside-frame Siphon and the LMS 42' GUV left, though an absence of even "Railroad" re-runs possibly suggests the tooling might be past further use. Two more for someone else's attention? Hornby would surely have done something by now if they were ever going to. Hornby have at least replaced the Lima Horsebox (and their own ex-Tri-ang effort) with an all-new model to modern standards, but it was an awful long time coming. What's already happened with the Dean Goods and the 121 "bubblecar", plus the new Terriers and Large Prairies under development elsewhere, now joined by the GW railcar, all point up the dangers of complacency... Complacency is an unfair charge. Hornby have invested steadily in new toolings, and I would assume this has been on the basis of where they felt the best returns were likely to be obtained, which is always a judgement call. Don't all their current standard diesels represent upgrades over Lima toolings they hold? Most of the pacifics and 4-6-0s are upgrades on earlier toolings in their possession? Along the way they have pinched the premium spot in B1, Std 4, 7P and imminently LN 4-6-0s and also the 350hp/08 from Bachmann, so not exclusively one way traffic either. Furthermore, no manufacturer has unlimited resources, and the newer competition really have nowhere to go other than duplication if they want some flagship popular models in their ranges, so Hornby and Heljan and Bachmann are all going to see more of this. Top spot on the 24 now with SLW, and the 25 and 66 under threat from Bach's list. Bachmann's 47, Dapol's 52, did the same on existing Heljan offerings, and these will not be the last. (Much of this has to be in the diesel sector, because it is mined out: it's duplicate or don't compete at all.) Hornby did appear to sleep a little on the BR mk1s, but presumably their sales on well amortised toolings were good enough that they could long delay offering better even in the face of Bachmann's competition, while focussing on building up a killer range of broader cariage selections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) Complacency is an unfair charge. Hornby have invested steadily in new toolings, and I would assume this has been on the basis of where they felt the best returns were likely to be obtained, which is always a judgement call. Don't all their current standard diesels represent upgrades over Lima toolings they hold? Most of the pacifics and 4-6-0s are upgrades on earlier toolings in their possession? Along the way they have pinched the premium spot in B1, Std 4, 7P and imminently LN 4-6-0s and also the 350hp/08 from Bachmann, so not exclusively one way traffic either. Furthermore, no manufacturer has unlimited resources, and the newer competition really have nowhere to go other than duplication if they want some flagship popular models in their ranges, so Hornby and Heljan and Bachmann are all going to see more of this. Top spot on the 24 now with SLW, and the 25 and 66 under threat from Bach's list. Bachmann's 47, Dapol's 52, did the same on existing Heljan offerings, and these will not be the last. (Much of this has to be in the diesel sector, because it is mined out: it's duplicate or don't compete at all.) Hornby did appear to sleep a little on the BR mk1s, but presumably their sales on well amortised toolings were good enough that they could long delay offering better even in the face of Bachmann's competition, while focussing on building up a killer range of broader cariage selections. I, in no way, meant to accuse Hornby of complacency across the board, but their long-standing (evident) reluctance to do anything significant with inherited tooling that is basically very good, but for relatively minor and solvable shortcomings has always puzzled me. They are presumably content with what they are making out of the unaltered models that have been re-run, but they already do suitable bogies to overcome Lima's addiction to their under-wheeled BR1, just a matter of producing an adaptor to make them fit the chassis. As you say, where main-line diesels are concerned, it's very much a case of duplicate or walk away these days. John Edited September 5, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now