OO Gauge 8x8

[Ben C]

Following on from a thread that I started quite some time ago,  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117956-oo-gauge-8x6/

 

My plans for an 8x6 got put on hold with an impending house move. Having moved house last summer, and spent most of my time since working on the new house, I now have a new 18x9' concrete sectional garage. The front half is needed for storage but the back half has had a studwork frame built with  50mm Kingspan all the way round including floor, then lined with with 9mm OSB board. this gives me an internal size of approx. 8' x 8'4". I have a 2 foot wide board running down each side at the moment (rescued from the old house) so just need to fill in the sections across the front and back, with a lifting section across the door.

 

As mentioned on my previous thread, ideally I'd like a twin track main line with a station capable of holding 4 or perhaps even 5 coach trains. The idea was originally to then have a 3rd platform for a branch that would lead round the outside of the boards to a branch terminus over the storage sidings on the mainline. On the original 8x6' area the gradients would have been too much but in 8x8' I feel it might just be possible. If the gradients still prove too much there is the option of bringing the branch station in front of the main storage sidings, so the branch would only have to rise to approx. 80mm to cross the main lines. Yet another plan would be to have the branch on the inside of the loop so no crossing of the main line would be needed. I would be happy enough if the branch could cope with 2 or 3 coach trains and 5 or 6 wagons on a goods train.

 

​If anyone has any good ideas or can point me to something similar it would be much appreciated. I'll try to update my last Anyrail effort tomorrow if I can.

 

Cheers,

Ben

[PatB]

I know I keep banging on along similar lines, but CJ Freezer drew a lot of plans for a nominal 8'x6' garden shed (layout area of 7'6"x5'6"), any of which would benefit from stretching to 8'x8'. Many are main-line plus branch arrangements which would give you the sort of operating potential you appear to be after. If you can get hold of copies of Track Plans and 60 Plans for Small Railways they should both give you plenty of ideas for what is possible. 60 Plans ran to several editions over the years and the layouts included varied between them, so I'd recommend getting 2 or 3 copies of different vintages if you can. Just beware that some of the earlier plans were drawn in the days when 15" radius r-t-r points were not uncommon and so some juggling may be required to fit everything in with more modern track geometry.

 

Just for the sake of interest, I'll PM you a rather ambitious 7'x5' that doesn't, AFAIK, appear in any of CJF's books.

[Ben C]

Thanks for the PM. Seems to be a lot of track on it but certainly interesting. I've got a copy of CJF/ Peco '60 plans for small locations so will spend some time flicking through that later today when I've got some free time.

 

Main thing for the moment is I'd like to finish off the boards and get a couple of loops down in the next month. Baby no. 2 is due mid October and chances of getting out to the garage for a good building session will be next to zero. If I've got first loops down then the odd hour for a play or laying a bit more track is more realistic.

 

Big decision for now is whether to make the 4x2 section across the back thats going to join the 2 existing boards flat, or make a dropped section to give the option of a bridge/ viaduct.

[Ben C]

This was the sort of thing I was thinking about when I only had an 8x6 area to play with. Blue bits for platforms with the branchline running round the outside and up and over the storage sidings.  

 

 

With 8x8 the idea would be similar but stretching it all out a bit. The blue splodge in the top right would be the main station area. (trying to use paint with a laptop mouse pad isn't going well), the red line at the bottom is where the door is situated (opening outwards) so will need a hinged section here. Ideally the points would want to be moved from that section.

Anyone any ideas on how I could maximise the hidden storage roads and also round it all off a bit? It seems very much a square with rounded corners at the minute.

 

 

 

[Chimer]

One option you might like to try is to turn your main lines 120^o - 135^o in the left hand corners using set-track curves, then base the station area around a gentler curve completing the circuits on the right hand side - maybe as much as 5' radius through the platforms.  Sorting the pointwork out off the curve can be a bit tricky, but curved streamline points can help.  You might also need access "manholes" in the right hand corners as the baseboards will be quite wide there.  The attached plan shows my use of the same idea in a rather smaller area … the curves shown as tunnels are 45^o of third radius setrack (~20") and the radius through the platform varies from 30" - 36".  8' x 8' would give more scope for easing things.

 

 

P.S.  If you want to "fiddle" in your storage sidings, probably best not to cover them up with a branch terminus ……

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[TheSignalEngineer]

This is a pre-build sketch of the layout I currently have under construction.

To maximise the main line space I put my branch on the inside and used a lot of curved points and slips to get rid of as much straight track as possible..  The overall size is approximately 100 inches square 

 

 

The optimum train length on the main lines is 5-6 passenger vehicles or about 15 wagons. It can also be used as a roundy if I just want to let something run whilst I am doing other things in the room.

 

The Up Main and Down Main have loops on the hidden section. That end of the branch has two hidden sidings. The industrial sidings will eventually have a sausage factory loading dock on the front road and the back road will be hidden for swapping stock.

[imt]

This is a pre-build sketch of the layout I currently have under construction.

To maximise the main line space I put my branch on the inside and used a lot of curved points and slips to get rid of as much straight track as possible..  The overall size is approximately 100 inches square 

 

post-9767-0-00223700-1476048866.jpg

 

The optimum train length on the main lines is 5-6 passenger vehicles or about 15 wagons. It can also be used as a roundy if I just want to let something run whilst I am doing other things in the room.

 

The Up Main and Down Main have loops on the hidden section. That end of the branch has two hidden sidings. The industrial sidings will eventually have a sausage factory loading dock on the front road and the back road will be hidden for swapping stock.

 

Magic! Really, really good for the space available and with a railwayman's eye as to how things work.  Excellent example - wish I had the space!

[Ben C]

Thanks for the replies, some very nice examples and good things to think about.

I think I'm going to have to splash out tonight and buy the full version of Anyrail, 50 parts on the free version just isn't cutting it. Will have a playbaround tonight and see if I can come up with something. Thanks again.

[Satan's Goldfish]

My thoughts below, not draw to scale as I don't have any planning software to hand at work. it's very rough and more sidings etc could be moved or added as your requirement allows.

 

Keep hidden loops as simple as possible (derailments will happen where they are hardest to reach). Set-track curves used hidden at the end to squeeze as much in as possible, scenic lines on a big sweeping curve around the rest of the room. You might even be able to fit 3 loops in each direction in the hidden area if you play around with the geometry.

 

Minimum amount of track on lifting section (although it should be long enough to accommodate a trailing crossover), less rail ends to line up when it's lowered into place and less electrical connections.

 

All points are trailing on the mainline as per preference on prototype, plus it makes shunting the goods yard and freight onto the branch more interesting than just driving things straight in (same as branch being on opposite side to the goods facilities)

 

There should be enough running length to raise the branch above the storage loops, especially as you only envisage short trains on the branch.

 

I do like your idea of having the branch platform run straight into the corner of the room, helps break up all the tracks from being parallel with each other.

 

 

Possible operations:

Branch passenger shuttle

Mainline through passengers (not all stopping)

Trip freights on mainline, wagons for 'through' goods yard and exchange others to be taken up/down the branch.

Morning newspapers/mail can be detached from passing through trains and tripped up to the bay platform in the BLT.

 

 

HTH

[PatB]

Thanks for the replies, some very nice examples and good things to think about.

I think I'm going to have to splash out tonight and buy the full version of Anyrail, 50 parts on the free version just isn't cutting it. Will have a playbaround tonight and see if I can come up with something. Thanks again.

You could give SCARM a go. Reasonably intuitive to work, with comprehensive track libraries and free.

[Ben C]

Ah, fair point. Should have tried that 1st. As it is I now have a paid up copy of Anyrail. Started working on something last night, will see if I can make it presentable this evening.

[Ben C]

Had a bit of a play this evening. Starting to look a bit better buta bit disappointed with only managing to get quite small goods sidings once the head shunt's in. Would also mean backing out of the head shunt on to the main line or doing a bit of engine swapping, but I've got nowhere to put spare engines. Maybe bring a goods loop round the inside of the platforms to act as headshunt and run around?

 

[Ben C]

Didn't have much time this evening but have had a quick tweak. There's now a goods loop in front of the platforms to be used as the head shunt and also means the down platform road can be used to run around to propel trucks into the sidings. Sidings are short but about right (ish) for an inglenook. Still doen't look quite right though and theres no loco facilities at present. If anyone could make any suggestions it would be appreciated.

 

Might have a go at alternative tomorrow with the branch on the inside running round in front of the storage sidings then goods and loco facilities on the outside of the main loop on the right.

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Ben,

 

If you decoupled the branch line junction from the station (imagine that the junction is further along the line, off-scene somewhere) that would do various good things:

1. The branch line gradient would be longer and thus either less steep or reaching a greater height.
2. The through station could be simpler (easier to fit into the space).
3. The through station wouldn't have to be pushed into the corner so you could ease the platform curves.

One way to do this would be to flip the current track design on the lifting section vertically so that it becomes a facing crossover and right-hand turnout, taking the branch line off the outer circuit, where it could start to climb as soon as it's on the fixed baseboards.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Harlequin

[Ben C]

Thanks for the input Harlequin. It would certainly give a better gradient or better branch terminus height.

Only bit I'm a bit lost on though, would the idea be to just not have a platform at the main station, or have it at a slightly different height on the incline?

[Chimer]

[snip]

 

One way to do this would be to flip the current track design on the lifting section vertically so that it becomes a facing crossover and right-hand turnout, taking the branch line off the outer circuit, where it could start to climb as soon as it's on the fixed baseboards.

 

Right-hand point on the inner circuit and a single slip on the outer would save space and avoid creating a facing crossover …… but either way solves one problem on the previous plan, a lack of any access to the branch from the inner circuit.  But on the other hand, the trailing crossover offers a legitimate reversal into the goods yard area from the outer circuit …….... and if the goods loop was also a platform road, the facing point into it from the inner circuit would also be more legitimate, I think ….

[Harlequin]

Thanks for the input Harlequin. It would certainly give a better gradient or better branch terminus height.

Only bit I'm a bit lost on though, would the idea be to just not have a platform at the main station, or have it at a slightly different height on the incline?

I was thinking the branch line would just run behind the station without any association with the station - maybe partially obscured.

 

Operationally there doesn't need to be a platform in the through station dedicated to branch line traffic. Instead you'd imagine branchline trains joining the mainline further down the line and running along the mainline (around the outer circuit) before stopping at the through station. 

 

If you had a high-level platform you'd have to level off the branchline while it's alongside and that would probably seriously reduce the overall height it could climb to (or make the gradients steep again).

Edited September 6, 2018 by Harlequin

[Ben C]

Operationally there doesn't need to be a platform in the through station dedicated to branch line traffic. Instead you'd imagine branchline trains joining the mainline further down the line and running along the mainline (around the outer circuit) before stopping at the through station. 

Ah OK, understood. The idea of having a much longer drag up to the high level terminus is definitely something for me to consider. Ideally I'd like to have a platform for the branch at the main station so will see if I can make it work. If not though I'll definitely go with your idea to gain some extra height/ ease the incline.

Another thought is to bring the storage roads forward a little so the branch could rUn round the outside of them, rather than crossing over on the top edge.

[Ben C]

Right-hand point on the inner circuit and a single slip on the outer would save space and avoid creating a facing crossover …… but either way solves one problem on the previous plan, a lack of any access to the branch from the inner circuit.  But on the other hand, the trailing crossover offers a legitimate reversal into the goods yard area from the outer circuit …….... and if the goods loop was also a platform road, the facing point into it from the inner circuit would also be more legitimate, I think ….

Sounds good. If I get time tonight I'll make that change so the branch platform becomes a loop with access/ exit in both directions.

Will lose the goods loop on the inside and have station building there. Then try to move the goods loop towards the top of the plan. Will see what I can come up with.

[Ben C]

Well, here's this evenings update. I feel that I've improved a couple of things, branch road now has better access in both directions and I've got a small inglenook yard with a headshunt, but i've lost the flowing main curve of earlier efforts. Try again tomorrow I think...

 

[Zomboid]

The branch platform doesn't have to be on the same "lap". You could have a spiral kind of thing where branch trains go round the room 1.5 times through your storage sidings (might need more routes through there though) and then approach the station on the main lines from the top. You'd need to imagine that the branch train running through the station scene was not the same one that terminated there.

[Harlequin]

Hi Ben,

 

Here's a rough sketch of the sort of thing I was thinking of:

• Station less compressed, curves opened up
• No facing crossovers in scenic areas
• Goods loop running around the outside of the platform withs good yard outside that (but road access is tricky...)
• Goods loop can be used as relief for passing expresses
• Goods loop extends as long as possible before rejoining to allow for shunting
• Branch line gradient probably about 1:40 to reach 100mm elevation before it crosses the main lines.
• Min radius 610mm (2ft)

Lots of details are missing. I haven't used proper point templates and I haven't really thought it through in depth so there might be some horrible gotcha in it!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Harlequin

[Ben C]

Thanks for that Harlequin. I really like that. If I brought the storage roads forward a few inches I could potentially combine with Zomboids idea of going twice around to really get some height gain for the upper terminus. Means I could have slightly more complex storage as I would have good access. Also gives a really long branch line run so the trains not arriving seconds after it leaves the lower station as would have happened originally.

 

Will have a play later and see what fits. My only concern is it's a long reach in to the top right corner!

[DCB]

Hi Ben,

 

Here's a rough sketch of the sort of thing I was thinking of:

BenC1.png

• Station less compressed, curves opened up
• No facing crossovers in scenic areas
• Goods loop running around the outside of the platform withs good yard outside that (but road access is tricky...)
• Goods loop can be used as relief for passing expresses
• Goods loop extends as long as possible before rejoining to allow for shunting
• Branch line gradient probably about 1:40 to reach 100mm elevation before it crosses the main lines.
• Min radius 610mm (2ft)

Lots of details are missing. I haven't used proper point templates and I haven't really thought it through in depth so there might be some horrible gotcha in it!

 

The plan didn't look right to me so I doodled on it and the top of the station single slip comes out at around 1ft radius.  Also there is nowhere for the traverser to traverse to so it would be 3 road max.   

I re doodled the  top end of the traverser for 4 / 5 roads or so but the bottom can't work without curves on the lift out and the traverser is only a loco and 3 coaches long.  My incomplete 76" X 54" bed layout takes a loco plus 5 coaches 6 at a pinch.

My doodles stopped short of the bottom of the layout.   There won't be much room below the Branch if you stick with a reasonable height passing the station, and you have to reverse every branch train in the hidden area/ traverser, to me it simply doesn't work.  The elements don't jell.

Some of the earlier layouts look much better  SatansGoldfish #9 in particular and the Stationmasters looks brill though I can't see that fitting in 8X8.

Edited September 8, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Harlequin]

The plan didn't look right to me so I doodled on it and the top of the station single slip comes out at around 1ft radius.  Also there is nowhere for the traverser to traverse to so it would be 3 road max.   

I re doodled the  top end of the traverser for 4 / 5 roads or so but the bottom can't work without curves on the lift out and the traverser is only a loco and 3 coaches long.  My 76" X 54" bed layout takes a loco plus 5 coaches 6 at a pinch.

My doodles stopped short of the bottom of the layout.   There won't be much room below the Branch if you stick with a reasonable height passing the station, and you have to reverse every branch train in the hidden area/ traverser, to me it simply doesn't work.  The elements don't jell.

Some of the earlier layouts look much better

Hi David,

 

Yes, the slip at the top would probably work much more how you've drawn it and consequently push the island platform south a bit. That's a bit of a shame because the platform then has to stand against the much tighter radius curve but it might be OK.

 

I wasn't suggesting a traverser - the dashed lines are just the rough paths of the through lines and some possible storage loops or sidings. I think that by using curved points carefully the storage loops could diverge from the through lines on the curve and so could be fairly long (although the wisdom of using curved points is debatable).

 

Having curves on the lift-out section should not be a problem.

 

I don't understand your point about reversing branch trains in the hidden area. I think branch operations would be very similar to those in Ben's previous designs...?

Edited September 8, 2018 by Harlequin