Booking on points pre 1990

[18B]

would anyone happen to know of any booking on points that weren’t “proper depots” as in didn’t have locos stables there etc, for example I was surprised to find out Berwick upon tweed had a BOP until 1987! I’m sure there are other such surprising places not usually thought of?

[russ p]

Lowestoft stayed open until mid 90s

[18B]

Lowestoft stayed open until mid 90s

That’s exactly the kind of place I’m wondering about,

 

Did goole possibly have a BOP for all its sickyard Shunters

[russ p]

Scarborough still has a signing on point

Thinking of others that immediately spring to mind

Boston

Leicester

Darlington

Cleethorpes

Skipton

I'm sure there are plenty more

[russ p]

Forgotten to mention a very surprising one which is my home depot!, Stowmarket

[31A]

Scarborough still has a signing on point

Thinking of others that immediately spring to mind

Boston

Leicester

Darlington

Cleethorpes

Skipton

I'm sure there are plenty more

 

Harrogate

Huddersfield

Workington

 

Loads really!

[18B]

Harrogate

Huddersfield

Workington

 

Loads really!

 

Indeed,but while there are books on stabling points, those places with a BOP are seemingly going unrecorded

 

Tibshelf (for a very short period)

Seymour junction after closure of barrow hill (although details are scetchy on this one)

Bestwood park

[31A]

It depends what you mean, really - for example Leeds station has a very large booking on point for Drivers and Guards but has never been a depot with sidings and sheds.  Or are you only thinking of locomotives, not multiple units?

[18B]

It depends what you mean, really - for example Leeds station has a very large booking on point for Drivers and Guards but has never been a depot with sidings and sheds.  Or are you only thinking of locomotives, not multiple units?

True but Holbeck was a depot and like many large stations, local sheds shut and the train crew moved to the station like at Carlisle after kingmoor shut

[caradoc]

Well into the 1980s Booking on Points continued steam era practice; For example, until the Ayrshire electrification of 1986, Drivers were based at Ardrossan (presumably because there had once been a locoshed there) whereas the Guards were based at Largs, the end of the line. 

[31A]

Well into the 1980s Booking on Points continued steam era practice; For example, until the Ayrshire electrification of 1986, Drivers were based at Ardrossan (presumably because there had once been a locoshed there) whereas the Guards were based at Largs, the end of the line. 

 

That situation still applies with Northern train crew on Teesside - Drivers based at Darlington and Guards at Middlesbrough.

[18B]

The splitting of guards and train crew I never understood. Although to be fair re passenger I guess you don’t always need a guard for an ECS from depot etc, (mind the way things are going you they won’t be needing/wanting one full stop)

[31A]

The splitting of guards and train crew I never understood. Although to be fair re passenger I guess you don’t always need a guard for an ECS from depot etc, (mind the way things are going you they won’t be needing/wanting one full stop)

 

 

I think it's a historical thing.  In the 'old days' Drivers worked for the Loco Department and booked on at Loco Sheds and Guards worked for the Traffic Department and booked on at Stations (or yards in the case of Goods Guards), but in most cases they have been merged over the years with just a few exceptions as per Darlington / Middlesbrough where for some reason or other that hasn't happened.  When I joined the railway at Cambridge, Drivers still used the old steam loco depot offices, although the steam shed itself had been knocked down years before.  Diesel locos were still stabled in some sidings nearby, but although a new DMU maintenance depot had been built in the late '50s up at Coldham's Lane, the Drivers weren't transferred to it.  I think Guards signed on in some rooms above the end of platforms 5 & 6.  In the 1980s a new signing on point was built at the end of platform 6, which was known as the 'Joint Signing On Point', all the train crews used it, and the old steam loco offices were knocked down.

[russ p]

I believe there is still guards at Darlington

The situation you describe is an historic one.

Going back to the start of diesels the work was split between Darlington and thornaby for drivers.

Prior to thornaby opening some of the drivers for the saltburn line were based at Middlesbrough along wirh guards .

The drivers moved to thornaby but the guards stayed at Middlesbrough.

Thornaby carried on working about half of the areas passenger work until 1992.

Incidentally both drivers and guards were still based at saltburn until 1982

[31A]

I believe there is still guards at Darlington

The situation you describe is an historic one.

Going back to the start of diesels the work was split between Darlington and thornaby for drivers.

Prior to thornaby opening some of the drivers for the saltburn line were based at Middlesbrough along wirh guards .

The drivers moved to thornaby but the guards stayed at Middlesbrough.

Thornaby carried on working about half of the areas passenger work until 1992.

Incidentally both drivers and guards were still based at saltburn until 1982

 

 

Not any Northern guards at Darlington, or at least there weren't when I retired 4 years ago, unless things have changed since.

 

Yes, I understood it was so for historical reasons but wasn't aware of the details, thanks for explaining..

 

There were also guards based at Bridlington until some time in the 1980s - I worked with a couple of them.  Presumably there were drivers as well although not certain.

[russ p]

I didn't realise there were no Darlington guards now.

There used to be loads twenty years ago.

Were you at Darlington as a driver?

[31A]

I didn't realise there were no Darlington guards now.

There used to be loads twenty years ago.

Were you at Darlington as a driver?

 

 

No, York guard and then office job with Northern in Leeds :-)

[Rugd1022]

Peak Forest and Leamington Spa spring to mind.   

[Dagworth]

Forgotten to mention a very surprising one which is my home depot!, Stowmarket

Stow wasn't a booking on point pre 1990 as per the topic though.

 

Andi (Ex Stowmarketarian)

[Hippel]

Grimsby Dock station (for drivers) - I know 'cos I've paid out wages there many years ago as a relief clerk!

 

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

The splitting of guards and train crew I never understood. Although to be fair re passenger I guess you don’t always need a guard for an ECS from depot etc, (mind the way things are going you they won’t be needing/wanting one full stop)

 

Several reasons - some of which have already been explained.  The big problem when we came to traincrew synchronisation in diagrams was the different time allowances.  For example if a Driver had to prep a loco he required more time than a Guard prep'ing a passenger train so they had different booking on times even if they were based at exactly the same place.  It worked far better when both Driver and Guard were taking to a fully prepared train or simply relieving enroute but even then there were different time allowances for booking on and reading notices and of course they still had different Conditions with a single-manned Driver allowed a PN Break and Guards having no break - which could mean they parted onto different trains partway through a turn.

 

Over the years synchronisation has got a lot simpler but there can still be obvious differences where a Driver has to prepare a loco/train or dispose one.

[Oldddudders]

I'm not sure whether it really meets the OP's case, but the Southern was riddled with little hole-in-the-wall sets of EMU sidings, often with a booking on point. These were typically unsupervised, with a simple trust that staff booking on duty would be in fit condition and equipped with all necessary books and bits. In the wake of Eltham Well Hall, where alcohol was a key cause of the loss of life, these places began to be closed and main depots became the focus. 

[18B]

Peak Forest and Leamington Spa spring to mind.   

 

Peak Forest wasn't a BOP pre 1990, and when it was created in 1994 it was also the stabling point for the locos used there.

[Covkid]

Peak Forest and Leamington Spa spring to mind.   

And Coventry too, which was in BR days of course, as was Pwllheli. You can argue whether Aberystwyth and Machynlleth were and when they weren't as the former was technically still a traction depot albeit for narrow gauge steam.

 

Going back to the OP though it should be remembered that footplate crew either signed on at the required place, or were able to claim walking time / lodging time, and this also applied to signalling people too,  Some footplate crew booked on at Wednesbury and Wolverhampton steel terminal in the West Midlands whilst the banking engine based at Great Bridge was mostly a Bescot book on I believe, with appropriate walking time.    

 

There is a further muddying of the waters with latter day traincrew agreements.  The TOC I work for allows drivers to book on at the location they start working a train from 20 minutes prior. For example if a Bournemouth driver is diagrammed to travel to Southampton to work the 1017 from there, they can book on at Soton at 0957 provided they have all the appropriate kit and "paperwork".That "paperwork" is all tablet based so Late Notices are no longer an issue.    

[ForestPines]

Grimsby Dock station (for drivers) - I know 'cos I've paid out wages there many years ago as a relief clerk!

 

Paul.

Presumably as it was the nearest station to the site of the long-gone Grimsby loco shed. I can't imagine anyone books on there now!

 

I was surprised to discover recently that a friend of mine who is a West Coast driver nowadays normally books on at Wolverhampton station, not at Oxley.