Yff Continued: Card baseboard, transversers and three link couplings in 4mm

[JIJ]

Continued from: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134882-yff-a-cheapo-cardboard-baseboard-micro-00-layout/

 

A quick introduction: Some of you may have been following Jim Read's thread regarding his OO gauge experiment, with a shellaced card baseboard. Jim is an O gauge modeller at heart though, and decided to give away his in progress layout, and I took it off his hands. Since then I have moved to Germany for work, and finally managed to bring over my modelling equipment (including Yff) this morning.

This will be the thread showing my work on Yff as well as some other adventures in 4mm.

Edited March 1, 2019 by JIJ
Title changed OO to 4mm to represent investigation into EM gauge

[JIJ]

The trackplan will be unchanged from Jim's original, shown here:

 

Here is a poor picture of the board. Apologies for the picture quality, I've never been any good at taking photos

 

Next, the infamous airfix 14xx tank

With the plunger pickups thoroughly binned, wiper pickups were installed.

This drawing approximately shows what I've done. A piece of bent phosphor bronze strip, an interference fit in the hole for the plunger pickups, wiping on the rears off the tyres. The standard circuit, is used.

.

It does run, but needs some adjustments to the rear axle suspension.

 

That's all for now, next will be something for the 14xx to haul, and then I'll have a go at track building, then scenery hopefully.

 

Joseph

[luke the train spotter]

Sounds like a good plan. I like the track plan. Any ideas what stock you'll build?

[JIJ]

Update time!

Over the past few months I've been slowly experimenting with materials and methods and improving my skills, mainly marking and cutting accurately. I have built and rebuild several times a simple open wagon that I'm still not happy with but I'm getting close to having something.

 

Most of the wagon chassis have been converted to three links, which look much better than tension locks, and aren't that much more fiddley to uncouple manually. Here is a converted wagon chassis with another project, a Hornby railroad 08 body on a Lima 09 chassis:

This evening though, I had my first crack at track building. Using cardstock sleepers and rails from peco n gauge Flexi track, I built a quick 150mm section just to get a feel for it. 

Here is the result next to a piece of Hornby code 100 track for reference:

One thing was immediately apparent; it just looks so narrow! I'm sure I don't need to explain the perculiarities of OO gauge here, but it made me want to try building another test section to EM gauge. Here it is compared to the earlier attempt:

 

To my eyes a massive improvement! The advantage of EM compared to P4, as I understand it, is that the flange profiles are similar to OO so that most things can be regauged with by simply pushing the wheels out on the axles. I'm looking at my stock and trying to see how easy it is to convert. Some wagons are very easy, whereas others require a visit from a file to remove material that is otherwise interfering with the wheel movement.

 

For now, I don't expect this layout to run with more than the 14xx, the 08 and a handful of four wheeled stock, so I can leave the rest of my stock untouched unless/until I decide to go EM on my next, larger layout.

 

 

[retiredoperator]

Hi Yff   The Track that you built does look very good , but, beside the Hornby track looks a different gauge, must be an optical illusion? Happy Modelling Kev 

[marc smith]

9 minutes ago, retiredoperator said:

Hi Yff   The Track that you built does look very good , but, beside the Hornby track looks a different gauge, must be an optical illusion? Happy Modelling Kev 

Yes indeed. It's the old problem that "better" sleeper spacing and sleeper dimensions, make OO track look narrower gauge (which of course, it is, slightly)
However, when you view OO track from the side (a more usual viewpoint) it's less obvious. Personally, I would be tempted to slightly reduce the size of sleepers - but that's just my opinion, of course

Hope the new pickups work well on the Airfix 14xx. When converting my old one to EM gauge, I used a brass chasis kit
(it was a "Rod Neep design" chassis kit, I think?). Let us know how it goes

[JIJ]

Hi Retiredoperator and Marc,

 

The scale sleepers definitely add to the illusion, but I think the main thing is the Hornby track is code 100 where the rails I am using are n gauge code 80 (because it's cheap, and looks better imho), so the distance to the outside of the rails is smaller.

 

Surprisingly, all of the stock I have checked will run across my test pieces without fouling the sleepers (my triang dock shunter with original gnurled wheels not regauged will even run on the 18.2 mm plain track ). I have started to place sleepers on the baseboard but I ideally need to get some more rails.

 

The pickups on the 14xx have proved unreliable in EM as there is too much space between the chassis and the wheels, so I am planning to replace them with wipers soldered to PCB board mounted to the bottom of the chassis. I personally don't currently see a need for replacing the chassis as it seems to do a good job with a bit of fettling of the rear axle spring, and I'm not expecting it to haul much.

 

In other news I am currently no expert when it comes to making rolling stock out of card, I find the edges tend to feather, and I struggle to achieve good joints, but I have been practicing cutting and glueing square with plastic, and have currently built an RCH 7 plank wagon (Shown at the top, not sure how to change image position on mobile)

[Marly51]

I’m glad you’ve taken on this little layout, Joshua. I haven’t scratch built any locomotives or wagons yet, but hope to have a go using Jim Read’s card techniques.

[Gordon A]

You will need to make some jigs to centre the rails on the sleepers and for any point work to set a rail a fixed distance from the sleeper edge.

 

Gordon A

[JIJ]

Almost two years, three house moves, a change of country and (almost) a whole global pandemic later, what has happened?

 

In my last post I had started to fit sleepers to the baseboard, however I quickly found myself out of my depth when I got to the first curve. Clearly I needed more practice in trackbuilding, but I had ran out of rails.

 

I was also experiencing problems using card as a modelling media and was beginning to understand Jim's use of shellac, as it stops the card from feathering at the edges, and in theory should let blades stay sharp for longer. I needed some shellac.

 

I was due to return to the UK from Germany at the end of August 2019, so planned to wait until I had returned before buying what I needed as I did not want to have to bring it all back. The date kept moving back and eventually in December I moved back to the UK.

 

Until May of this year I haven't been living anywhere with room to get any proper modelling done, but now things are starting to happen!

 

First I have been practicing track building. To start with let's see, "Yff" I can build "pretty" track, then "Yff" I can build a functional turnout.

So, first pretty track:

This is code 80 rail from peco n gauge Flexi track, on card sleepers. It is OO gauge with shortened sleepers, and I am happy with it, so I will stick to 16.5mm.

 

Next was the big "Yff", the turnout. For this I wanted as few things as possible to be able to go wrong, so I kept the n gauge sleepers  but cut them in half down the middle. After filing the rails, these were glued to a thick piece of stiff card. The tie bar was soldered to a scrap of pcb. 

It certainly isn't pretty, but it worked first time!

 

Next "Yff", "Yff" I can build wagon bodies. Card has shown it's benefits as a material to practice with. I have made several attempts at wagon bodies, and so far, all have been learning experiences and have ended up in the bin  I think I'm getting close to something I'm happy with, and will post when I am.

 

I recently had the opportunity to purchase an inexpensive second hand laser cutter, so this might improve things. So far I have used it to cut some frames for a replacement chassis for a mainline manor class in which the intermediate gear shafts had snapped due to mazac rot.

I'm currently on version 4, and there are still some issues, but I think I am close to 4mm scale model running with card frames. Speaking of...

 

The Airfix 14xx chassis must be replaced. There are no proper bearings around the drive wheels, the universal joint between the motor and worm are hard to lubricate, the weight distribution is terrible, the spring under the undriven axle requires constant adjustment and the cab is full of motor.

When I have finished the Manor chassis next on the list is a shellacked card chassis for the 14xx.

 

Finally, "Yff" 3 links are possible. I'm still working on that one. For some stock there are no problems. I briefly had a 2nd radius test track set up on the dining table to see what would and wouldn't work. It seems like on most locomotives, propelling with the smokebox end is possible but not from the bunker end. Also, the 14xx has the magnet for the motor right up against the bunker wall, so the iron wire I have been using for 3

links has caused problems. More investigation needed here I think

[Andrew D]

Having built Jim’s controller I’m a fan of his work, and it’s fantastic to see what you are doing with this. The ‘pretty’ track looks terrific! If you do go on to make Jim’s controller, you’ll be very glad of the old motors in the locos. These old motors work amazingly well with the controller, unlike modern motors which stutter. I only use old Mainline split chassis locos on my boxfile layout now, and they’re the cheapest locos to buy as they don’t run so well with out-of-the-box controllers. So that’s a win! Following your build with interest. 

[Thunderforge]

I’ve managed to level up my skill in card rolling stock, but not yet got track laying or controller ability! 

I use thin superglue to strengthen the edges of the card, and I use mount board for the body and cereal box for details. There are a few tricks I’ve figured out along the way; use a little block of wood to keep everything square, and a glass mirror to get the wheels level (glue three first then the final one afterwards).

My buffers are clout nails set into brass eyelets, the couplings are card swamped in superglue and the three links are from some cheap jewellery chain I found on eBay. But I work in O gauge.

 

 I’ve started a Jim style traverser but not finished yet. I’m looking forward to seeing Yff progress!

 

I was thinking of using your method to make an O gauge turnout from a OO one, but I couldn’t figure out if it would work in my head. But I think I’ll give it a go having seen your one!

Edited July 13, 2021 by Thunderforge

[norfolknun]

19 hours ago, Thunderforge said:

I’ve managed to level up my skill in card rolling stock, but not yet got track laying or controller ability! 

I use thin superglue to strengthen the edges of the card, and I use mount board for the body and cereal box for details. There are a few tricks I’ve figured out along the way; use a little block of wood to keep everything square, and a glass mirror to get the wheels level (glue three first then the final one afterwards).

My buffers are clout nails set into brass eyelets, the couplings are card swamped in superglue and the three links are from some cheap jewellery chain I found on eBay. But I work in O gauge.

 

 I’ve started a Jim style traverser but not finished yet. I’m looking forward to seeing Yff progress!

 

I was thinking of using your method to make an O gauge turnout from a OO one, but I couldn’t figure out if it would work in my head. But I think I’ll give it a go having seen your one!

Thank you for the tip about three axle boxes first!...and the buffers.

I am attempting to make couplings from can lids....thin enough to cut with scissors.....we shall see.
My attempt at Jim's traverser was successful.

 

My only ''struggle'' at the moment with rolling stock is producing springs that i find acceptable.

 

Mr Read has become a total source of inspiration to me.

[Gordon A]

You could use black florists wire for the last link of the three which is magnetic.

 

[Thunderforge]

Leaf springs are a pain to make, I had made one for some Gn15 wagons and then made moulded copies using ‘blue stuff’ and milliput. But for O scale I’ve been gluing strips of card around a plastic tube then cutting to length.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Thunderforge

[JIJ]

Hi Jim,

 

Great to hear from you! Please feel free to share your progress here, it's always interesting to see it. 

 

I think I will stick to iron wire for the 3 links and relocate the motor to be further forwards and lower down when I redo the chassis, I have several other locos, none of which suffer from this problem, and I quite like working with the iron. It bends nice and cleanly, and has a nice weight to it, giving the couplings a prototypical sag.

 

For the next step, there are a couple of things I'd like to try to help lay track a bit faster. I have an idea of trying to produce something resembling Flexi track for the plain sections, but I need to sort out the ventilation on the laser cutter before I can have a proper go. 

 

I also need need to work on my soldering a bit to have a go at the controller, as it's still probably not good enough.