Dapol Announce N gauge Mk.3 Sleepers

[John M Upton]

Work has started. Erroneous markings and CDL lights are off:

 

[Kaolin2FS]

Firstly, a big thanks to Dapol for finally producing this model - I, for one, have been pestering them for a few years so it’s great it’s finally arrived. Yes, there are a few compromises, some a little frustrating, but at least we have, in my opinion, a halfway-decent body shell to build upon. 
 

For colour comparison, I've just taken the photo below in artificial light, showing in descending order:

Mk1 Farish BG

Mk2C BFK (converted from Farish Mk2A using standard Phoenix Precision paints P146/7)

Dapol Mk3 sleeper

Dapol Mk3 TS

Mk2F FO Farish

As I’ll need to run Mk1s and 2s together with the Mk3s - as most of us will - my sleepers will be getting a trip to the paint shop. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Kaolin2FS

[njee20]

Proves the point well though. The mk3 TSO looks so much better, correct colours, correct font, silver window frames. Ok the white band is still wrong, but even so... I'm sure the sleepers will sell, but I personally think we need to be careful of being 'thankful' for substandard models. There should be literally zero reason for any of those errors.

[woodenhead]

Jolly good respray of the Mk2a @Kaolin2FS

[37058]

3 hours ago, Kaolin2FS said:

Firstly, a big thanks to Dapol for finally producing this model - I, for one, have been pestering them for a few years so it’s great it’s finally arrived. Yes, there are a few compromises, some a little frustrating, but at least we have, in my opinion, a halfway-decent body shell to build upon. 
 

For colour comparison, I've just taken the photo below in artificial light, showing in descending order:

Mk1 Farish BG

Mk2C BFK (converted from Farish Mk2A using standard Phoenix Precision paints P146/7)

Dapol Mk3 sleeper

Dapol Mk3 TS

Mk2F FO Farish

As I’ll need to run Mk1s and 2s together with the Mk3s - as most of us will - my sleepers will be getting a trip to the paint shop. 

 

Thank you for this, really good comparison, however be careful as the BG 'should' be falcon grey, but the 2 Mk2s would have been executive dark grey, which is slightly darker than falcon grey, but I note on your BFK you have used the correct paints. Farish is neither here or there to be honest, but certainly very close and passable in my opinion, however you can tell the difference on the new Mk2F's as these are all executive dark grey except for the RFB which is correctly falcon grey. The RFB conversions all came out in falcon grey with italic (Gill Sans Bold) IC lettering circa late 1991/92.     

Now the last batch of Dapol Mk3s in IC swallow were actually quite good, better than the black we had originally! The falcon grey and executive light grey was pretty decent, orange cantrails and silver window surrounds, sadly I can't say the same for the sleepers. This really, really annoys me! I have 12 on order and I was a fool to think that Dapol would make a good job on these. So for now, I'm looking at masking up and respraying the executive light grey, adding new INTERCITY lettering and 10xxx running numbers. Sleeper should also be on all 4 ends, not just 2 as modelled, but in a slightly higher position. Add the silver window surrounds oh, and the orange cantrails! How have they missed these off?? I only assume that Dapol have either looked at the photo that's on Flickr of 10701 which was / is stored at Long Marston and noticed there is no cantrail, but this is basically because it has faded away after such a long time in storage. Now this is what I originally thought, but after a little further research, I note that in Nick Meskell's Scottish Class 37s Vol 3 - The 1990s, some had painted orange cantrails and some not circa 1994. I know the INTERCITY land cruise sets with white roofs do not have orange cantrails.

Photo of the real 10701 (SLE) as stored below for reference...
 

 

 

How they should look, but these 2 have orange cantrails... Taken in 1998. 

 

 

Anyway, for me I'm happy that we finally have Mk3 sleepers in N that can be easily stripped and worked on, but sadly (again) another Dapol product perfect for my modelling era that will need a little further money spent on and a partial respray etc to make right... The big question here though is, if Farish were to produce these, yes they would be near as damn spot on, but at what cost? £40 / £50 a pop? I'm looking at just over £300 for a rake of 12 Mk3s, then once the 2 Farish RFBs and 2 BGs are added, your up to around £420 ish depending on where you shop? So if Farish were to release these you could probably add another couple of hundred quid onto the rake, but I would be 99% certain that I could take them straight from the box and run them happily. So for me, spending a few evenings prepping, masking, spraying, sending a few quid over to Railtec for transfers (I actually have them all in stock as I knew something like this was going to happen) https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1275 are what you want - then add the paint and varnish on, your going to get a pretty impressive load 16 sleeper rake after all the alterations are done. Sadly for me, another pain and another pile added to the project list, but once complete, I'll be a happy chappie I reckon.

A few more SLE and SLEP stored photos... 

10558 (SLEP)

 

10731 (SLE) 
 

10606 (SLEP)
 

Cheers
Anthony 

Edited October 8, 2021 by 37058
Spelling mistake

[Chris M]

I won't be running any of these simply because they don't fit my needs. If I was going to I think the biggest problem for me would be the colour difference. Out of the box the lower panels will look wrong compared to other coaches in the same livery. I think many of us would forgive the other mistakes as they don't shout out to those of us that have never seen a mk3 sleeper but a colour difference like that is hard to ignore in a rake of coaches. I do like Dapol products but new coaches should be made to match current ones unless the current ones are hopelessly wrong. You would expect that to be picked up and fixed before sign off as I can't imagine a change in colour shade would cost anything.

 

I know of at least one howler on the O gauge 14xx relating to an impossible combination of smoke box number plate and livery, can't remember the exact details now but my 7mm friend was not a happy bunny.

[njee20]

7 hours ago, 37058 said:

 

The big question here though is, if Farish were to produce these, yes they would be near as damn spot on, but at what cost? £40 / £50 a pop? I'm looking at just over £300 for a rake of 12 Mk3s, then once the 2 Farish RFBs and 2 BGs are added, your up to around £420 ish depending on where you shop? So if Farish were to release these you could probably add another couple of hundred quid onto the rake, but I would be 99% certain that I could take them straight from the box and run them happily. 

For me this is the problem though, that shouldn’t be the big question. These aren’t cost cutting measures. They’re just screw ups. I’m sure you’re right that if Farish released a mk3 it would be £40+, but that shouldn’t absolve Dapol of the responsibility of getting basic livery elements, which they’ve done before, right!

 

I look forward to seeing your reworked ones though!

[John M Upton]

Executive dark grey now repainted:

 

Not my best effort but starting to look better already. 

[Steadfast]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

starting to look better already

Isn't it! What a transformation already.

 

Jo

[bmthtrains - David]

A great improvement, but this is of course ridiculous that people are having to repaint brand new models to correct the errors…

 

David 

[John M Upton]

I was going to repaint the stripe anyway, always been planned but yes, repainting the rest of it was most definitely not in the original plan.  One evenings work has become three or four days potentially.

 

I just hope the blue/grey one is not so badly cocked up...

[Rob Hayes]

Sorry but I think this is the first time in a long time the colours actually look closer to how they was in service. The recent models of the last 15 years have had overly dark beige. The colours varied on the originals and where much lighter to start with. 
I agree it’s slightly to pale for some. But comparing to photos and memories this is much closer to what it should look like. 
people have just got used to looking at overly saturated shades. 
 

[JBM37404]

7 hours ago, Rob Hayes said:

Sorry but I think this is the first time in a long time the colours actually look closer to how they was in service. The recent models of the last 15 years have had overly dark beige. The colours varied on the originals and where much lighter to start with. 
I agree it’s slightly to pale for some. But comparing to photos and memories this is much closer to what it should look like. 
people have just got used to looking at overly saturated shades. 
 

Yes  I agree. Though the InterCity font is wrong and other markings missing or wrong plus no silver window surrounds gives me the impression they phoned this one in. Frustrating as I have 7 of them to get up to scratch for my 1993 Inverness Sleeper train.

 

J

Edited October 10, 2021 by JBM37404
Spelling

[John M Upton]

Rail Blue stripe applied to one side now, doing the other one later:

 

I have had to order in some Executive Light Grey, first time I have done a mail order for paint in ten years, nearly fell off my chair when I saw the cost of the postage....

[Kaolin2FS]

Looking good John! I’m also inclined to agree with comments about previous RTR colour saturation levels being too high, but I’m just after something that matches. Here’s my first one (top), after the window surrounds have been picked out and first wash of paint applied to the lower body. Bottom model is straight out of the box for comparison.

[Rob Hayes]

31 minutes ago, Kaolin2FS said:

Looking good John! I’m also inclined to agree with comments about previous RTR colour saturation levels being too high, but I’m just after something that matches. Here’s my first one (top), after the window surrounds have been picked out and first wash of paint applied to the lower body. Bottom model is straight out of the box for comparison.

That looks great. To me both those look more like the real thing. They did vary over the years and the 4 main intercity style liveries. But some of the Dapol models look more like cotswolds stone yellow than fawn colour beige.
fantastic work looks just the job
 

I made these comparisons too. 
 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Rob Hayes

[Rob Hayes]

1 minute ago, The 158 Man said:

 

I agree. I said similar a few posts ago. The beige area (or Executive Light Grey) has been too 'warm' from Farish and Bachmann for years, but then Precision Paints' colour is nearly identical so...

Yes I think that. I don’t mind it looks ok but Hornby also around the early 2000s seems to sometimes do it this biscuit sort of colour.  
but old farish poole, 80s Hornby and Lima got it right. 
if Dapol did an APT with the colour they used before it would look like it had been in a smokers house for years.

I think it’s possibly due to when weathered they did appear to look more that shade when a think layer of brown dust is over them. 
but you can watch loads of footage and see they where I fact much paler cold grey with a faint greenish cast to the paint.

It’s just a shame they didn’t get it right.

I have a 15 year old tub of railmatch here and it’s lighter than the recent farish or Dapol colour by a large degree. 
the font is definitely wrong however. 

[John M Upton]

Of course you can also have the issue where you need to repaint part of a new coach just so it matches the (potentially inaccurate but a bit better) shade used on the stock it is to run with!  Otherwise it could stick out like a sore thumb...

[Calnefoxile]

A quick question on these??

 

Could it just be a simple Livery error by Dapol?? In that they suggested that they should be Executive Livery, when in fact they've produced Swallow livery??

 

Reason why I ask this simple question is that in the photos that've have been posted, I was under the impression that in Executive Livery the Font used was 'blocky' (Best way to describe it  ) whereas in Swallow livery the font used was Italicised with a white background, which is what they seem to be.

 

I know I'm giving Dapol the benefit of the doubt here and possibly a way out, but there are other errors with it as well.

 

Regards

 

Neal.

[tiger]

On 09/10/2021 at 06:06, John M Upton said:

Work has started. Erroneous markings and CDL lights are off:

 

 

How easy was it to get the INTERCITY logo and numbers off? What method did you use?

[Steven B]

Missing tail lamps I can of understand as I'm presuming they've made new sides for the existing ends.

I'm guessing many did get the later OHLE sign whilst still in Intercity, so I can understand that decision (although it's not the one I'd haven taken).

 

I can't understand why the font for the Intercity branding wasn't spotted. Dapol got it right (or at least less wrong) on the other Mk3s, DVT, HST Power cars and class 86.

 

"Dear Dapol, we want to love you. We want to fill out stock boxes with your products. We just want models without these basic mistakes. We're sorry, it's not us - it's you! "

 

Steven B

[John M Upton]

3 hours ago, tiger said:

 

How easy was it to get the INTERCITY logo and numbers off? What method did you use?

 

Gentle rubbing with a fibreglass pen.  Left some very slight marks which would be easily covered with new transfers if not repainting. 

 

Apparently an artists erasing pencil works well on Dapol markings too. 

[Kaolin2FS]

Careful scraping with the end of a cocktail stick also worked for me. 
Graham

[Rob Hayes]

11 hours ago, Steven B said:

Missing tail lamps I can of understand as I'm presuming they've made new sides for the existing ends.

I'm guessing many did get the later OHLE sign whilst still in Intercity, so I can understand that decision (although it's not the one I'd haven taken).

 

I can't understand why the font for the Intercity branding wasn't spotted. Dapol got it right (or at least less wrong) on the other Mk3s, DVT, HST Power cars and class 86.

 

"Dear Dapol, we want to love you. We want to fill out stock boxes with your products. We just want models without these basic mistakes. We're sorry, it's not us - it's you! "

 

Steven B

Speaking of which Dapol please please do more MK3 DVT in Swallow livery ! 

[John M Upton]

Getting there...

 

The silver edging to the bodyside window edges is essential.