Modern Outline Kits Class 4F

[Hull Paragon]

Ray.

The picture look just fine on my computer. The chassis looks to be coming along very nicely.

What is the purpose of the three small, fold-out tabs (the upper one at about 45 degrees) between the front and centre driving axles?

Dave.

 

Dave

 

I have no idea! They don't seem to appear in the instructions but maybe I'll discover that they are used to route piping or something. The tabs above the axles are for the chassis overlays.

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

There are times when I sit down and wonder where the time has gone! For some reason I just haven't got round to much recently, but I have still made a little progress.

 

The chassis slots together easily enough providing you take it slowly...I did it from one end to the other and once I was happy, I twisted the tabs......not all of them though as some are needed to locate the frame overlays. This can then be soldered. When I bought the kit, Dave was quite proud of the fact that normally, the driving wheels are already lined up and no chassis construction jig is needed...or it shouldn't be. The instructions advise leaving any wheel adjustments until after the chassis is solid. I'm not so keen to take anyone's word for it though so I put some dummy axles through just to check. The alignment was almost perfect but there was some very slight tightness. However I found that if I gently squeezed the chassis with my fingers the rods dropped out. So I tweaked the construction like that before I soldered it. This worked perfectly.

 

 

Being the impatient type I wanted to set the drivers up and run it by hand though a test curve. The front set were quite tight and I had to rub the bearing surfaces down a little bit.....but they soon freed up.

 

 

 

The rocking beam arms and box are visible in the second picture.

 

I now need to fit the springs and set the suspension up....not particularly easy if my experience this afternoon is anything to go by!

 

Ray

Edited December 6, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

It has been a slow period. The workshop is quite cool as you might expect, and as a SAD sufferer, the lack of sunshine is really not good for me.

 

I have spent some time thinking about the compensation and how best to put it together. The instructions call for a gap of 0.25mm between the hornblock and the rocking arm on a level track. Unfortunately, in order to do this you need to put the wheels in. After that, there is no way the suspension can be adjusted. In fact, I couldn’t see any way of setting the gap accurately so I set the chassis up on blocks with dummy axles and guesstimated the correct location of the hornblocks which I marked on the frame. I then set the tie bar up so that the tang held the hornblock at the ‘correct’ height and measured the tang….I then set the tangs for the other three axles at the same length and wished myself luck. I didn’t get it right and I have about 1mm of movement so I’m a bit unhappy about that! At least having taken the time to tap holes and screw the assemblies together I can take it apart and tweak it if necessary. (Actually, there is a small amout of metal on the spring which could be removed to tighten up that 1mm a little.

 

The whole lot went together although I had to do a lot of enlarging of various holes to get the screws to locate in the hangers. A very tedious operation and for a short while, the total enjoyment of the kit went out of the window.

 

Now I need to think about the pick-ups before I go any further, as well the motor and gearbox before the coupling rods go on. And I can get back to tabs and slots!

 

Chassis with springs:

 

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I have had too much time off what with all the preparations for Christmas and guests needing to be hosted etc. As I was sort of confined indoors, I took a stroll down my Windows 10 learning curve and finally found a method to install my copy of Adobe Photoshop Elements 10 which is supposed to be incompatible with Win 10. Anyway, it loaded and it now works so I can edit my photos on this machine..........

 

I wanted to straighten up the spring assemblies as a couple of the positions of the bits were not quite right. After I broke off one of the hangers I wished I hadn't! It didn't take too long for it to be resoldered and the re-aligned system to be ready for re-assembly. I still have a small issue with the amount of movement on the rocker beams so I decided to add a 0.6mm shim to each spring tie bar to reduce the float on the axles.

 

In the meantime, I turned my attention to the wheels as I want to set up the coupling rods. As I said earlier I have chosen Walsall wheels having used them before. They have a metal chunkiness that I like and, especially for the Class 4, they do a V-Rim version. For those who don't know, Walsall insulate their wheels by casting them in metal, then cutting through the spokes (in a circle which separates teh central part from the outer) and inserting an adhesivel (epoxy maybe?) which bonds the two parts of the wheel back together. However, this batch has resulted in an almost total quality control failure. All 6 wheels have issues. I thought that the defects might be less obvious if I put a coat of primer on them....but it actually made them look worse as the contrast increased with the lighter colour on them.

 

Here are a couple of examples:

 

 

The gap where the bond is missing is quite clear....and it's not just one spoke.

 

 

The blobby bits on the spokes are where the bond has not been properly cleaned off and has been left to harden on the spoke. I tried to file it off but the profile of the spoke makes it slightly awkward, and the spce to get a file in is more limited as you move towards the centre.

 

 

This wheel is a mixture of the above problems. Another is slighlty buckled where the two parts haven't quite been lined up correctly before the bond was applied. It's not a lot, but is indicative of perhaps deeper quality issues. I suppose I could fill the gaps myself with Milliput or something, but I shouldn't have to do that. Apart from that, it would take ages to fill, clean up and file with the risk of damaging the spokes even more.

 

I really don't like knocking our suppliers. I think in the main they do a pretty good job so I have written to Lez Allen at Walsall and await his reply. Normally they are pretty good at responding to problems so I don't anticipate any issue with getting replacements, but I'm still quite annoyed that I am going to lose a lot of time getting it sorted out.

 

I had a quick look at JPL's wheels at Reading earlier this month when I caught site of their cast J94 wheels, but they don't have a web site so it is not easy to look more closely at their other options.

 

Paraphrasing the character on the Fast Show, 'Today I have mainly been knocking up a paint spraying area for a small portable booth with an extractor so I have a permanent place to spray bits and pieces. Thank you'.

 

Ray

Edited December 28, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[markjj]

Mark Wood does a nice set of wheels in 7mm for the Ivatt I have never used them myself but I have seen quite a few of them used on other people's loco's. If you get stuck it might be worth giving him a call. I think they are made to order though.

Mark J

[Marshall5]

There is nothing wrong with the insulating method used by Walsall per se.  JPL and, before them, CCW used the same method although JPL now use insulated rims. Sadly the only set I bought from Walsall had to be returned as the crankpin holes were drilled 'off-centre' in the webs and the last lot I had from JPL needed considerable work to make right.  I have actually used the cut spoke method to make insulated wheels.  First you cut through every alternate spoke with a piercing saw and fill the cut with epoxy, preferably the higher strength slow setting type.  Once set cut through the remaining spokes and fill with epoxy.  By doing it in two stages concentricity is maintained.   I must admit yours don't look well done and I'd have been tempted to return them rather than painting them but they should be recoverable. I would clean any paint from the cuts and refill with fresh epoxy.  When fully dry use various shapes of Swiss files to clean up the spokes.  It is a horrible boring job and will bu**er your files but will improve their appearance no end. I'm concerned that you say one wheel is buckled - it shouldn't be if the method I described had been followed correctly.   Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Ray.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marshall5

[Hull Paragon]

Mark Wood does a nice set of wheels in 7mm for the Ivatt I have never used them myself but I have seen quite a few of them used on other people's loco's. If you get stuck it might be worth giving him a call. I think they are made to order though.

Mark J

 

Thanks Mark

 

I had a brief look and they appear to be quite good. I will contact him and find out if he can machine them as well.......I am a bit apprehensive about ensuring accuracy drilling holes etc....

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

There is nothing wrong with the insulating method used by Walsall per se.  JPL and, before them, CCW used the same method although JPL now use insulated rims. Sadly the only set I bought from Walsall had to be returned as the crankpin holes were drilled 'off-centre' in the webs and the last lot I had from JPL needed considerable work to make right.  I have actually used the cut spoke method to make insulated wheels.  First you cut through every alternate spoke with a piercing saw and fill the cut with epoxy, preferably the higher strength slow setting type.  Once set cut through the remaining spokes and fill with epoxy.  By doing it in two stages concentricity is maintained.   I must admit yours don't look well done and I'd have been tempted to return them rather than painting them but they should be recoverable. I would clean any paint from the cuts and refill with fresh epoxy.  When fully dry use various shapes of Swiss files to clean up the spokes.  It is a horrible boring job and will bu**er your files but will improve their appearance no end. I'm concerned that you say one wheel is buckled - it shouldn't be if the method I described had been followed correctly.   Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Ray.

 

Ray

 

Thanks for this interesting comment.

 

I don't disagree with the method. If I had chosen to do it myself as you have outlined, I would be quite happy to take the time and effort to do it. My issue is that having paid a princely sum for the Walsall wheels I shouldn't expect to have to do it myself. It's seriously time consuming and relatively awkward. Perhaps I should have returned them straight away but they didn't look quite so bad before I put the primer on....even though they were not perfect by a long chalk. The buckled wheel is as a result of the two parts not being properly aligned before being bonded. It's not much but is tangible.

 

Unfortunately, this is not the first time I have had problems with Walsall. However, they have always responded quickly so I don't want to knock them without good reason. I will look at the JPL J94 pattern though. (I've got a J94 in the 'to do' box). Walsall don't do one and the Slaters pattern looks just awful.

 

Ray

Edited December 31, 2018 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

It's quite a while since I did anything tangible to the model but I have been sidetracked at first by the wheels issues and as a result, lathe matters.

 

Walsall responded very positively when I contacted them and I sent the wheels back. I have to say that I was very disappointed with their return. I'm not sure if I should have had a newly formed set but they returned them in a 'repaired' state. (They ignored the wheel on which the two halves didn't quite match). They had simply splashed some more resin on them and although the gaps in the spokesare more full, they are still dimpled enough to be visually defective. Also, the amount of resin on the spokes has produced more, bigger blobs which have to be cleaned off. I've sent them back again and to be honest I'm beginning to get a little bit annoyed at the delay and continued poor quality.

 

As this has developed I spoke to Mark Wood. After a short conversation I bought a form tool from him for future use. I also explained to him that I had not turned wheel castings before and he very kindly included 3 rejects for me to practice on. I read all the blurb about how to turn them (his site and Raymond Whalley's) and tried to set my mini lathe up. It was very quickly apparent that the 'right size' tool was too big and the cutting point was some 1.5mm above the centre line without any way to adjust it downwards. Warco immediately offered to change the tools for smaller shank ones but in the meantime, I was advised to get myself some quick change tool posts......which I did. This immediately cured the tool problem as the new quick change tool holder sits about 5mm lower than the one I exchanged.

 

I trained as an engineer many years ago but it is some considerable time since I used a lathe in anger so I am enjoying a lot of test pieces although within 5 seconds of trying to part a piece, I broke the tool! However, being impatient I did turn the face of one wheel and enjoyed the shiny result! I now intend to buy a full set of drivers from Mark and turn my own......I will buy an extra one though just in case.

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

Wheels: The Continuing Saga of:

 

I'm feeling a little bit guilty. I am a great supporter of model suppliers especially 7mm providers even though some of them can really get it wrong. I explained to the team at Walsall that I was very unhappy and that I would no longer be using their product, and Roger Crowe refunded my money. Although I was a bit harsh with my comments he took the time to write a short note to me suggesting that Mark Wood's wheels could be a possible substitute. I thought that under the circumstances, that was an excellent gesture and I intend to email him to say so.

 

Roger did say something in his note that I hadn't realised. Walsall wheels are shell mouldings....Mark's wheels are lost wax castings. That must explain why Walsall wheels have so much claggy material on the spokes and at the boss. Mark's wheels are certainly look to be better quality....but if you can't turn them yourself, you have to find someone who can, which obviously adds to the cost. (Oddly enough, Mark Wood suggests Walsall as a possible turner!)

 

In the meantime, I have now finished my very first wheel. The blanks that Mark gave me look like this (although the one I have done is a tender wheel and has no crank boss).

 

 

 

There is quite a lot of excess metal on them which is gradually removed. There are two useful guides which I studied in detail. Raymond Whalley of the Gauge O Guild has a method which is quite interesting and well presented on his website, and Mark himself shows his method on his product pages. They are pretty similar but Mark takes more care to ensure that the spokes don't get distorted in the final stages. I followed Mark's method almost to the letter. Eventually I reached this stage:

 

 

The only real mistake I made was to turn them slightly under the recommended 3.5mm width. However, in my defence I had a little bit of trouble measuring the tool cuts....(everything has to be divided by 0.025 to work out how many gradations to count when turning the cross slide screw....all part of the learning curve!)

 

After a series of other adventures on the same learning curve, I eventually reached this stage:

 

 

 

Bingo....one 4'3" Stanier tender wheel.

 

It's a long way from being perfect, the tyre especially isn't very good, but even though I say it myself, I am very happy with my first ever attempt. I have two more blanks to practice with but this time I need to find a foolproof method of setting up and repeat drilling 6 crankpin holes in the exact location.

 

With regard to the Class 4 wheels I will put them on hold for the moment. (And return to the main build for a while...it's been a while since I did any work on it). They are on order with Mark Wood (I ordered 7 just in case!). I have also ordered a DRO system from Warco and that won't be delivered for some time. The issues with measurements go out of the window with these systems (no backlash to worry about for instance), and I am not turning the real wheels until I have it all fitted and up and running.

 

I have not used a lathe for many years so it took some time to get back into it....... however, the processes if followed properly should be within the capabilty of many model engineers. I'm pleased I took the plunge.....perhaps these few posts might persuade you to have a go too?

 

Ray

Edited January 25, 2019 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

The weather continues to be cold enough to freeze antifreeze which affects my impetus......and my circulation, but eventually I got round to doing some kit work. I finally fitted the missing ribs for the coal space area of the tender, and after soldering the overlays to the side frames I added the brake hanger brackets.

 

I have had a lot of trouble with the spring hangers. I used my RSU to solder them on but more than one broke or fell off. I am not sure what the problem has been but putting them back is a real pain. One left a wet surface behind and it appeared that the flux I was using hadn't fully evaporated or burned off.....so the solder didn't take. Clearly, the brass wasn't getting hot enough which is strange as the RSU was on full power and I left it in contact for quite a while. At present, all seems to be well but I'm not sure what I will do if the problem persists.

 

The next step is to make up the coupling rods but as I have no wheels I will start either the front end sub assembly, or I might skip forward to the body section and make the cab up. The instructions suggest that doing the cab at this stage (chassis part finished and before the front and rear sub assemblies are attached)  is advisable to ensure squareness when the sub assemblies are fitted....so I will follow their advice I think.

 

I have ordered my wheels from Mark Wood and look forward to receiving them in the near future. In the meantime, my lathe learning curve continues as I struggle through parting tool issues....most of which are now resolved. However, it all takes time........and the woodwork for my layout is being delivered on Tuesday!

 

Ray

 

 

[Hull Paragon]

The cold weather is still irritating me....I'm very much a SAD person.....but I have still made a little progress. I have added some methfix transfers to a van I painted last year, and I have built the baseboards for my layout and fixed a temporary track with passing loop so that I have something to run my stuff on as I park the plans for the final layout and get on with the loco.

 

The latest sub assembly is the chassis front. A number of etches to join together and as I discovered, the order of build is quite important. As is the location and fitting of small plates with rivet detail which I realised have to be located and fixed in position by pegs on the front plate piece. I had to undo everything twice before I got it right.

 

 

 

 

Top and lower views of the assembly before all the ribs on the buffer beam are fitted. (Sorry for the quality of photo which must be due to the flash going off before the focus was right)

 

Ray

Edited February 19, 2019 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

This has been a 'Read the instructions properly before you do anything' sort of experience.  After doing the main part of the sub assembly three times,  I turned my attention to the webs. The components are shown here:

 

 

I have said previously that marking the part numbers on the small etches helps a lot when getting the parts together........ it does! The webs are located in the angle between the side and the rear of the buffer beam shown on the right here:

 

 

After some slightly fiddly alignment I realised that the buffer beam had to come off or the triangular shapes would not engage in the location holes......off it came and the installation was successfully completed......or was it? Spot the mistake time!

 

 

 

Anyone who has done one of these before will see that the overlays are missing. I thought they would slide on after I had filed off some of the soldered tabs.........they didn't! The webs had to locate through them so I had to take it all apart, fit the overlays and then re-assemble. Eventually, with the addition of the brass lifting lugs, it was finished!

 

 

Tomorrow, I will be reading the instructions!

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I finished off the front end without any difficulty and test fitted to the chassis.

 

 

The instructions suggest that the builder stops the chassis build at this point and starts the body construction. The reason is to ensure squareness as the cab is used as a guide for the rear chassis assembly.

 

So, on to the cab! First, the sliding windows. The very small cross section guides must be square and it took a couple of goes before I got it right.

 

 

Yes....they are on there!

 

 

The seats followed with pieces which are described in the instructions as 'Little'.......they are. I thought for a while that I was working in N gauge.......

 

Some plates on the cab overlay.........

 

 

...........and the cab can be folded up. I'll post a picture of that later.

 

Ray

 

 

[Hull Paragon]

Here is the cab photo......folding seat at the back

 

 

And the other side showing the 'little' pieces under the seat!

 

 

One small point that might be of interest is the amount of detail that is in the kit that has to be installed with very basic instructions. For example, the chassis oilers that locate on the front assembly overlays. The instructions say 'Pipe up Chassis Oiler and solder pins to these holes (pointed arrow).....Both sides'. I have no idea what the piping for these looks like and there is no information in the instructions.  Before I started to build this kit, I went to the NYMR and took dozens of pictures......even then I missed areas but luckily the engine came down to the MHR and I was able to take more pictures.

 

The chassis oiler is fitted and is piped thus:

 

 

Proof:

 

 

I promise it is there.....just under the makers plate. I was lucky that I had it in a global picture. Without it, I wouldn't even have known which way up it went!

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Hull Paragon

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Ray,

 

These will be useful when I get toi building mine.

[Hull Paragon]

20 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

Thanks Ray,

 

These will be useful when I get toi building mine.

 

Rob

 

If you wanted them you can have copies of my pictures of 43106....I've got about 150 of them showing all sorts of views from external and cab, to under the boiler for pipe runs etc. They are not totally complete but are a very good archive to start with!

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I had some reservations about bending the firebox wrapper to shape and being a bit of a coward, I decided to do something else instead. So I started to put the boiler together. First the formers which are easily found on the fret:

 

 

All the bits inside the rings needs to be removed and kept safe for later. The two pieces with the etched squares are joined together with a folded box and  form the link between the two halves of the boiler tube. (Shown here before soldering....you can also just see the marking telling you which end is which).

 

 

I put the formers into the tubes and tightened up with copper wire. Even though the boiler tubes have been rolled by MOK there were still a couple of minor problems. Firstly, the extreme edges wouldn't quite wrap around smoothly...tack soldering sort of solved that but you must be careful not to allow anything nearby to melt as the tube springs out again...it's probably less than 1mm but looks like 1 foot! I also had trouble getting the longer tube seam to close fully. There is a gap of about 0.5mm which I just couldn't reduce so in the end I decided to press on as closing such a small gap would make next to no difference with the boiler diameter. I soldered everything together. The formers look a bit like this when everything is in place. (Sorry about the over exposure of the metal surface reflecting light)

 

 

Next, the smokebox wrapper which was simple enough although there is a tiny element of misalignment of the holes for handrail knobs etc.....nothing critical I hope. I then tried to put the smokebox door on after fitting the hinge rod and handrail. It didn't fit properly. It located for most of the boiler circumference but one side slipped inside the boiler casing. After some thought I decided not to strip the whole lot down again, so I packed the boiler former with a circle of plasticard and sat the door on that.  The next problem was to get the door square. This was quite difficult and I still don't know if I have been successful. I did it by eye in the end by inserting 4 handrail knobs into the smokebox casing to give me balanced reference points, then sitting the boiler upright on my cutting mat which has a 1cm grid printed on it. I lined up the knobs horizontally and the hinge of the door vertically. After some considerable time I felt that it was close enough so I epoxied it in. Soldering might have disturbed the alignment.....and I thought it would be easier to melt that with a torch if it looks wrong later.......

 

 

I then offered it up to the saddle to see how it sat.......it didn't!!! It was immediately apparent that the curvature of the saddle was much too shallow for the boiler. The middle section on the lower support assembly was fine but the ends didn't curl up enough by quite a long way. This was nothing short of a disaster, (it looked absolutely awful) and for a moment I didn't know what to do. I decide to try to bend the ends of the saddle upwards (towards the boiler) by being a bit brutal. I inserted the whole edge into my Bend-it tool and forced the metal round....pretty crude and I fully expected something to explode out of position....but it didn't and the gap closed up even though I had to resolder the overlay on one side. It's not perfect but it is not far off. I just wish I had known this in advance as I would have done the boiler assembly first and the saddle second.

 

 

The boiler is not parallel to the saddle here so the gap looks worse than it is.

 

I also realised that the locating tabs on the saddle which I had filed off when I soldered it all up, were probably meant to locate in the boiler underside. Aaaargh! I don't have any tabs to help me set the boiler exactly right with the funnel normal to the horizontal. I only hope that the smokebox assembly will be accurate enough for me not to worry about this.

 

Having got to this stage, I was finally forced to face the firebox wrapper. The instructions call for light lines to be drawn on the surface of the etch to mark the top, tight, bends zone, and recommends different size rods to roll the various bends. The etch didn't have the stated guide lines for drawing the light lines so I drew my own guided by the drawing in the instructions. These are the relevant bits:

 

 

The wrapper must be bent to shape to fit the outline on the cab overlay and the brass transition ring. Right! There's a lot to go wrong here and the critical measurement is the width of the box at the top. If this is out, it will never fit. So heart in mouth I rolled a few lower reverse curves before I set a 6mm rod aligned centrally to my marks and bent it up on both sides....(45 degrees) to form the bends at 90 degrees or thereabouts. Dave at MOK recommended that I start from the bottom of one side and progress around to the bottom of the other. I would (like everyone else I assume) have started from the top centre and done each side after the top was fitted, but I took his advice and some time later reached halfway.

 

 

The cab end has tabs which locate the firebox wrapper into the cab which really helps. Some more time later I finally ended up with the finished product. Not precisely right but very close and slight pressure when I solder will ensure everything is hard up to the recesses.

 

 

The transition ring also fitted reasonably well.

 

So, after a period of not much happening, the body is slowly assuming some shape.

 

 

Ray

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Hull Paragon
Grammar!

[Hull Paragon]

The assembly of the boiler and firebox is nothing short of difficult.....at least it was for me. The chassis with the saddle forms a jig to help line everything up but even so, I had several problems. The first was of my own making in that after soldering the saddle up, I filed all the tabs off but it became apparent that two of them located the boiler. That wasn't a great problem except that the tabs would have kept the boiler axis through the chimney vertical. I had to line everything up with the tab at the firebox end lined up by eye to give a vertical, and then make sure the bottom of the boiler was parallel to the chassis for the alignment along the length. I then discovered that the boiler didn't sit properly in the saddle which, after my bending it to shape (see above), had developed a slight twist. There then followed a series of short and measured bending tweaks to get it straight......after all that I finally soldered the whole lot together.

 

 

The saddle was OK too..........

 

 

I also added the brass strengtheners which go at the bottom of the firebox wrapper. This was another head scratcher as the pieces had to be aligned with the wrapper and also sit properly in the chassis. (This is one of those kits where everything leads to Rome!). The bolt head is a 6BA bolt that I used to help tighten the assembly up before soldering.

 

 

 

 

Washout plugs have been installed leaving the way clear for some top fittings. First the safety valves.........

 

 

......so on to the funnel and dome. The castings need a fair bit of brass filed off and are a difficult shape to file.

 

 

The next problem was making sure that the funnel and dome were located centrally and upright. There are holes in the boiler to line up with but no spigots on the pieces. The funnel has a 9mm hole and the locating hole is 6mm (or so) so I decided to turn a small plug for the funnel.............

 

 

This ensured that the funnel was located perfectly.

 

 

The dome has no spigot and no hole so lining up is not easy. In the end I put it in the lathe and drilled a 2.5mm hole in it, then inserted a rod into the dome and through the boiler to help line it up. I'll fill and file the hole later. Here is the end result.

 

 

I was going to do some of the associated pipework but one piece was not formed propery and I tried to solder a piece on to make it useable. In doing so I burned my finger and in a reactive high speed withdrawal, the piece I was holding flew into the air and landed I know not where.....I went for a G&T! (Dave at MOK is looking to see if they have a spare)

 

Ray

Edited April 1, 2019 by Hull Paragon

[Hull Paragon]

Some may wonder where I have been..........maybe some haven't! The last time I tried to log in I couldn't for some reason and I decided to do it 'later'. 'Later' turned out to be 'much later'.

 

I have built and installed the cab doors. No issues there although they are slightly awkward if you want them to work. A few hinges have to be soldered on before construction. Here are the pieces including the overlays. I have to confess that I didn't fit the 'hinges' that are about 0.00005mm long and appear to add no value whatsoever.

 

 

And fitted to the cab....... they look slightly awry but it's a trick of the light.

 

 

I then added the boiler bands and conduit . Again pretty straightforward. At this point I would say that the advantages of an RSU are limitless. The unit simplifies any load of soldering operations. (Hinges as above; boiler bands here; etc etc etc..........)

 

I moved on to the footplates; more of which, later. It was at this point that a problem I knew I had became a problem that I could no longer tolerate. Those following the thread might recall that I said earlier that I had some difficulty lining the boiler up during the body construction, primarily because I had inadvertently filed off two locating tabs on the smokebox saddle. Despite taking my time and (I thought) a lot of care, I later discovered that the boiler top centre line was about 1mm off line. The funnel and dome were lined up to the actual centre line and so were also a tiny amount out. Similarly, the smokebox door which I took a lot of time getting right, wasn't! It too was slightly off as evidenced by the horizontal handrail. The error was very small but it looked like a mile to me. I showed the model to a large cross section of people, all of whom thought it looked OK.......but after several days of prevaricating, I finally decided that I couldn't put up with it any longer. So I have removed the smokebox door, funnel, collector and dome to refift after I have adjusted the centre holes as well as the mounting holes for the footplates and handrails.....pretty minor stuff really, but necessary. I am still in two minds about taking the boiler off the smokebox altogether, but this will be quite difficult as I will have to get enough heat all round the seam at the same time as preventing the smokebox joint plate falling out..........

 

 

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else has discovered this but it is quite obvious that the design of the German Wehrmacht helmet worn during WWII is a direct copy of the Ivatt Class 4F Dome!! Well who would have thought it?.........

 

Ray

[Dave Holt]

Ray,

I'm really enjoying reading this build, so I'm sorry to read of your trial and tribulations with the boiler/smoke box assembly. Unfortunately, once one has spotted a misalignment or something slightly out of square, however slight, it becomes the thing you notice straight away, each time, and it just has to be sorted out. As you mention, unsoldering stuff without moving parts you don't want to is much harder than attaching bits in the first place.

I've experienced these issues myself, so I have loads of sympathy for you. I bet you'll get it sorted to your satisfaction, though.

Dave.

[Hull Paragon]

On 29/04/2019 at 16:39, Dave Holt said:

Ray,

I'm really enjoying reading this build, so I'm sorry to read of your trial and tribulations with the boiler/smoke box assembly. Unfortunately, once one has spotted a misalignment or something slightly out of square, however slight, it becomes the thing you notice straight away, each time, and it just has to be sorted out. As you mention, unsoldering stuff without moving parts you don't want to is much harder than attaching bits in the first place.

I've experienced these issues myself, so I have loads of sympathy for you. I bet you'll get it sorted to your satisfaction, though.

Dave.

 

Thanks Dave.....very encouraging. I note in a book I have about James Beeson, that he never let himself do anything that wasn't absolutely right.....doing things multiple times if necessary.....I won't go that far I think, but I will get it as right as I can.

 

Ray

[dibateg]

I had a similar problem with mine Ray, so my sympathy. I didn’t take enough care and assembling two locos at the same time checked the same one twice. The other was well out of line, the cab didn’t line up with the front platform and after mulling over it for a day or so, got the gas torch out and heated the cast firebox front until it came apart. Tidied it up, made new bands Andyou wouldn’t know!

 

Regards

Tony

[Hull Paragon]

On 05/05/2019 at 09:01, dibateg said:

I had a similar problem with mine Ray, so my sympathy. I didn’t take enough care and assembling two locos at the same time checked the same one twice. The other was well out of line, the cab didn’t line up with the front platform and after mulling over it for a day or so, got the gas torch out and heated the cast firebox front until it came apart. Tidied it up, made new bands Andyou wouldn’t know!

 

Regards

Tony

 

Tony

 

Thanks for sharing that with me......I'm sure it will all be OK once I have separated the boiler. I epoxied the saddle and it is that which I am prevaricating over. I wanted to buy some Nitomors but it has been Health and Safetied and is no longer as powerful as it was. I am about to order some neat Methylene Chloride and soak the joint in that. I don't want to use heat as I am worried the plates on the saddle might spring apart.......

 

Ray

[Hull Paragon]

I finally got round to unsoldering (desoldering?) the boiler. I have to admit that I've been putting it off and putting it off for much too long, so much so that in the meantime I have constructed the body of a WEP Fruit Van 'D',  glued up 36 parts to make up an Ian Kirk Thompson Brake 3rd Composite coach sides, followed by the floor and underframe, painted and applied transfers to a Slaters Tank Wagon and paid a visit to Digitrains in Lincoln! But the boiler problem has always been niggling away and so this morning I removed the pipe conduit frame and the footplates and prepared for action.

 

I have been really worried that when heating the firebox transition ring, the firebox wrapper could break away with the implication of quite difficult problems ensuing. To try to alleviate this I sort of wrapped the firebox in kitchen towel and taped the ends before soaking the towel in water.  I also filled the washout plugs with a small piece of towel again soaked in water to prevent the plugs dropping out. Then with heart in mouth I applied a gas torch to the join. Within a short time the boiler came off.....completely intact apart from the boiler bands.

 

The next problem was the saddle which is/was epoxied on. There is a lot of soldered metal on the saddle which could break apart so again I packed what I could with soaked towel and applied heat to the very small opening on the underside. Thankfully, the joint failed quite quickly and the saddle came away without any soldered joints failing.

 

Now I need to clean it up and put it back together again.........properly this time!

 

Ray