Understanding point rodding

[theblack5]

 

Hi everyone,

 

I need some help understanding how the point rodding would have looked/worked at Fawley in Hampshire.

 

I am modelling Fawley and for the most part I understand how things would have worked, however,  I don't understand how the point rodding would have worked for the points numbered '4' in the attached picture...  there is only a single run of point rodding to the 2 sets of points numbered '4' looking at the picture attached...  would the loop point have been clipped and the rodding operate only the platform road point?  Or would the single length of rodding operate both points on one pull of lever '4'?

 

Also is the symbol like a cross on the points labelled '6' a facing point lock??

 

Hopefully I have explained this clearly..  as you can see I am no signalman but I do want to get this right.

 

many thanks in advance!

 

Richard. 

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Safety is paramount. A short crossover would almost certainly be operated by one lever to prevent a train being directed via a properly set point onto an incorrectly set one. 

 

I am also fairly sure that facing point locks were used where there was the slightest chance of a train taking a point when the blades were facing the oncoming train. I think there was a speed limit on points not fitted with operational locks so slow shunting moves on such unfitted points were Ok. I think there was also a prohibition if any passenger servies were involved.

 

The best bit is that all modelling of point rodding is purely cosmetic anyway and is small enough to be purely an addition in any event. 

[Ian Morgan]

Both points 4 would have been connected to the same point rodding, and would throw together. The same for both points 6 and both points 14. A connection to the rod would have joined to an angle crank with a short rod across to the point on the run round loop, while the main rod continued to the second point and another angle crank.

 

The + signs by the points 6 and 14 on the main line denotes facing point locks (FPL) operated by levers 7 and 15. There is also a fouling bar by point 6 (denoted by the short parallel line) which would have stopped lever 7 unlocking point 6 if a train was stood on it..

Edited September 16, 2018 by Ian Morgan

[t-b-g]

If both points are labelled as "4" then they would have been worked from the one lever.

 

Points 6 and 14 would need facing point lock as they would be run over in a facing direction by passenger trains.

 

Levers 7 and 15 are the point locks.

 

There is a brand new booklet written by Laurie Adams on the subject of prototype point rodding available. It is published and sold to members via the 2mm Association (P 110 on their lists) but is not scale specific and can be purchased by non members from the 2mm "Roadshow" stands at exhibitions.

 

It does cover things like facing point locks and working two points from one lever.

 

Snap! Two posts at the same time. Sorry for duplication!

Edited September 16, 2018 by t-b-g

[theblack5]

Thanks for this info..  I sort of assumed this must have been the case..  I need to find a picture now of how the rodding would have been set up to enable 1 lever doing both points at the same time!

Safety is paramount. A short crossover would almost certainly be operated by one lever to prevent a train being directed via a properly set point onto an incorrectly set one. 

 

I am also fairly sure that facing point locks were used where there was the slightest chance of a train taking a point when the blades were facing the oncoming train. I think there was a speed limit on points not fitted with operational locks so slow shunting moves on such unfitted points were Ok. I think there was also a prohibition if any passenger servies were involved.

 

The best bit is that all modelling of point rodding is purely cosmetic anyway and is small enough to be purely an addition in any event. 

[theblack5]

many thanks Ian..  this is exactly how I needed it explaining..  this is why i love RM Web!!

Both points 4 would have been connected to the same point rodding, and would throw together. The same for both points 6 and both points 14. A connection to the rod would have joined to an angle crank with a short rod across to the point on the run round loop, while the main rod continued to the second point and another angle crank.

 

The + signs by the points 6 and 14 on the main line denotes facing point locks (FPL) operated by levers 7 and 15. There is also a fouling bar by point 6 (denoted by the short parallel line) which would have stopped lever 7 unlocking point 6 if a train was stood on it..

[tomparryharry]

The point rodding would have a mechanical connection to the point rodding run. The crank would be set to be underneath the rodding. Pulling the lever for one point (in this case No 4, would move both points. On some regions, this might be 4A, & 4B. 

 

A 'fouling bar' is just that; a device set to foul, or thwart movement of a point, whilst a train is travelling over the point in question. These 'fouling bars' had immense length; some being 75' long in places. If you tried to move the locking lever whilst the train was passing over, the motion would throw the lever back into the signal box frame. In later years, the fouling bar was replaced by an electrical lock, disallowing the use of unlocking the point whilst the train was approaching the facing point.

 

HTH,

 

Ian.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The sketch in this post shows the rodding layout for some double ended points including the directions of travel of the rods and compensation for temperature changes.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127305-midland-railway-crank-connection-to-stretcher-bars/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2943589

[Ian Morgan]

See photos 18, 19 and 20 here:

 

http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/rodding.htm

[graeme3300]

There is also a vast reserve of knowledge and information available through the auspices of the Signalling Record Society UK - https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/home.php

 

Beware - you can get lost in this site for hours!!!

 

Graeme

[31A]

This one might be useful a well:

 

http://www.irse.org/minorrailways/publicdocuments/PA01%20-%20Mechanically%20Operated%20Points%20v2.pdf

[Ian Morgan]

Another detail on signalling diagrams you might not realise is the dot and line inside the square denoting the signal box. The line shows the position of the lever frame within the signalbox. In this case, it is on the back wall of the box, so the signalman would have his back to the railway when pulling levers.

 

(back in those days, the job was 'signalman' regardless of gender)

[theblack5]

many thanks..  really useful diagram on the link you posted!

The sketch in this post shows the rodding layout for some double ended points including the directions of travel of the rods and compensation for temperature changes.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127305-midland-railway-crank-connection-to-stretcher-bars/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2943589

[The Johnster]

Another detail on signalling diagrams you might not realise is the dot and line inside the square denoting the signal box. The line shows the position of the lever frame within the signalbox. In this case, it is on the back wall of the box, so the signalman would have his back to the railway when pulling levers.

 

(back in those days, the job was 'signalman' regardless of gender)

 

The dot is, of course, the signalman.

[73c]

The dot is, of course, the signalman.

Nah, can't be. He'd be over in the corner by the tea pot.  

[57xx]

I need some help understanding how the point rodding would have looked/worked at Fawley in Hampshire.

 

I am modelling Fawley 

 

Will you starting a layout thread for this?   I used to be able to see Fawley refinery (and smell it with the right wind direction...) from my bedroom window and saw many a 33 on oil trains passing through Hythe (passenger services had stopped just before I was born). I'd love to follow your build on this.