Actual Track Gauge

[Pint of Adnams]

Why all the waffling above when the 'official' explanation (actually written by a guy who produces brilliantly crafted models in S7), is on the Guild website for all to read: http://www.gauge0guild.com/general/whatisg0.aspx

 

The change to Finescale referred to above is the acceptance and specification of OMF (O Medium Fine) for standard gauge models.

[Nearholmer]

One man’s waffling is another man’s conversation.

 

Thanks, understood.k

[Simond]

I didn’t think I was waffling, I thought I, and others, gave an explanation in response to someone who asked. That the explanations given are pretty much consistent with Ian Middleditch’s is a bonus.

 

Wouldn’t it have been nicer to write, “There’s a comprehensive treatise on the subject at...”, rather than being rude?

 

Kevin,

 

I don’t know, I do know that Jim Snowdon had proposed an updated & revised standard, but whether it has been adopted, in whole or in part, I’m not aware.

 

Best

Simon

Edited September 26, 2018 by Simond

[Simond]

But I went and looked.

 

The G0G standards, section 1 was released in September 2017 and does give dimensions for true scale, 0F, 0MF, 0SF, Coarse and S7. Table 1.3.1 on page 10.

 

The technical manual is a members only area of the site, so I won’t link here. As discussed, the gauge is 31.5 and the flangeways are 1.5.

 

Best

Simon

[martin_wynne]

it always confuses me that the finescale people chose to go down to 31.5 instead of up to 33 which more correct to scale such as the EM/P4 versus OO. surely you can just pack out the back of slaters wheels with washers to put the back-to-back to 30.5mm

 

If you want to use an exact-scale track gauge you also need to use an exact-scale wheel profile. Otherwise the wheels will not fit behind axleboxes, inside splashers, behind valve gear, bogie sideframes, etc. Especially in models which need extra sideplay to traverse sharp curves. Simply widening standard wheels back-to-back doesn't work in a scale model.

 

This is where H0 gets it wrong, and all H0 models are over scale width in the running gear as a result.

 

With wheels which are wider than scale profile, it makes sense to reduce the track gauge accordingly, so that they can fit within the model.

 

Exact-scale wheel profiles are available, e.g. S7, but then you need to build track with finer flangeways to prevent wheel drop in the crossings. And you are restricted to much easier curves. And you have a layout on which the vast majority of 0 gauge models won't run.

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Why all the waffling above when the 'official' explanation (actually written by a guy who produces brilliantly crafted models in S7), is on the Guild website for all to read: http://www.gauge0guild.com/general/whatisg0.aspx

 

The change to Finescale referred to above is the acceptance and specification of OMF (O Medium Fine) for standard gauge models.

 

0-MF is Modified Fine not medium fine. With 1.5mm flangeways instead of 1.75mm, it is actually finer than 0 Fine. So "medium" doesn't make sense. The GOG has got this wrong (after taking 20 years to catch up with what the majority of track builders are actually doing).

 

Martin.

[jim.snowdon]

0-MF is Modified Fine not medium fine. With 1.5mm flangeways instead of 1.75mm, it is actually finer than 0 Fine. So "medium" doesn't make sense. The GOG has got this wrong (after taking 20 years to catch up with what the majority of track builders are actually doing).

 

Martin.

Martin,

 

O Medium Fine is the correct term, as it complements O Super Fine (0-SF), which uses a 31.25mm gauge and 1.25mm flangeways. Both are compatible with standard off the shelf wheelsets complying with the Guild Fine standards (in practice, virtually everything).

 

Jim

(who was responsible for creating the whole idea in the first place (MRJ 99), and was largely responsible for the updated Guild standards.)

[martin_wynne]

O Medium Fine is the correct term

 

If you say so Jim. To me it makes no sense at all when the starting point was 0-Coarse and 0-FIne. "Medium Fine" sounds as if it fits between the two, which is not the case.

 

For about 20 years in Templot it has been 0-MF MODIFIED FINE and 0-SF SPECIAL FINE (and for Brian Lewis 0-XF EXTREME FINE, although I have now removed that because it doesn't work).

 

I'm not minded to confuse folks by changing them now.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[jim.snowdon]

If you say so Jim. To me it makes no sense at all when the starting point was 0-Coarse and 0-FIne. "Medium Fine" sounds as if it fits between the two, which is not the case.

 

For about 20 years in Templot it has been 0-MF MODIFIED FINE and 0-SF SPECIAL FINE (and for Brian Lewis 0-XF EXTREME FINE, although I have now removed that because it doesn't work).

 

I'm not minded to confuse folks by changing them now.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

I'll agree to that. When I wrote the original article in MRJ 20 years ago, 0-MF and 0-SF hadn't been coined as terms - at that stage it was still plain 31.25 or 31.5 gauge, and these terms came along later, coined by others. Your terminology may precede even that so it may well be a case of different people coming up with the same idea independently.

 

Jim

[Art Dent]

Thanks for all of the replies.

 

Hadn't realised that what I thought was a simple question would cause so much discussion!

 

Truly a ...

 

 

 

Art

[Happy Hippo]

Thanks for all of the replies.

 

Hadn't realised that what I thought was a simple question would cause so much discussion!

 

Truly a ...

 

 

 

Art

My post #13 illustrated!!

[John K]

Hi Art

The previous 25 posts are all interesting, but the simple answer to your question is that the vast majority of O gauge modellers in the UK use 32mm gauge track in combination with wheelsets that conform to (or are close to) to the GOG Fine standard.

The other standards (and not-so-standards) are of minority interest, and are the subject of more discussion than they are of actual modelling.

John K

[Simond]

I’m not at all convinced that it’s “vast”, John, though I’ve no decent data to back that up.

 

I’m sure there are a significant number who answered “yes”to my first question,and a similar, perhaps larger, number who answered “yes” to the second. The remainder is likely over 52%, but as we know, that’s not a vast majority . I’d venture to suggest, it’s somewhere south of 75%, if the population of 7mm modellers on here and WT are anything to go by.

 

I am aware of at least two commercial sources of track gauges (Debs & Roxey) but in the final analysis, it’ll be those of us who choose to build our own P&C, or have them made to order, though of course there are some who still build to 32mm.

 

I’m loathe to believe that better running and better appearance are “minority interest”!

 

 

Best

Simon

[John K]

I’m loathe to believe that better running and better appearance are “minority interest”!

Best

Simon

Hi Simon,

You know that's not what I said.

ATB

John

I think some of us are in a bit of a bubble where we see S7 and OMF over represemted

[Simond]

I guess we tend to congregate with, and read about people doing stuff we are doing/like/wish to emulate, so the coarse boys, the S7 mob and the 0MF gang will tend to find one another, and they may therefore tend to think they are less of a minority that they actually are.

 

Equally, the same will be true of those who decide to stick with ready-to-lay pointwork, and there are plenty of them, as Peco’s results testify!

 

In a bubble? Don’t think so, simply saying that there are options, that they have pros and cons, and everyone can choose, but only if they have the information, and the facts on which to base their judgement.

 

And if we don’t tell people what the options are, they won’t know!

 

Best

Simon

[Nearholmer]

That last point is very important.

 

Coarse-scale is very much a minority choice, and if a newcomer was to be guided only by Peco publications, the vast majority of magazines, and even G0G introductory material they might easily miss its existence altogether - most do.

 

Yet, like the finer than G0G ‘fine’ versions, it has its own particular merits, advantages over ‘the normal’.

 

So, provided that things are explained clearly, and ideally objectively, laying out the options is a jolly good idea.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Nearholmer

[F-UnitMad]

31.5mm... 32mm... 33mm...

Yeah, I've probably got all of 'em in here somewhere

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by F-UnitMad

[martin_wynne]

The previous 25 posts are all interesting, but the simple answer to your question is that the vast majority of O gauge modellers in the UK use 32mm gauge track in combination with wheelsets that conform to (or are close to) to the GOG Fine standard.

 

Hi John,

 

I suspect that the vast majority of 0 gauge modellers nowadays use Slaters wheels or similar -- which don't actually comply with the GOG Fine Standard.

 

The fact that these wheels don't comply with the GOG standard was the reason for the introduction and popularity of the finer track standards.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[brack]

I'd agree that the majority must use 32mm as it is what you can buy and the accepted standard, but I disagree with

"The other standards (and not-so-standards) are of minority interest, and are the subject of more discussion than they are of actual modelling."

 

This strikes me as unfair and slightly insulting, in my experience they're generally discussed by those producing work to those standards, and those people are more likely to actually model things rather than just collect stuff or run it up and down a test track.

[Simond]

I don’t know when I went 0MF.

 

I suspect I’d made the decision years ago, but I think the major bit of homemade P&C on the old Greater Windowledge was 32mm, it was a tandem & crossover in copper-clad, and served well for many years. I built that back in 2000, more or less. I suppose I could measure it, it’s on top of a cupboard, I think. The rest was Peco, which had one major advantage, as I used it as a test track and, if you want your homemade stock to work on others’ layouts, a Peco crossover is a very good test.

 

MrsD kindly bought me Templot for Christmas - I can’t remember when, but maybe 2004 - I was a subscriber to MRJ in those days, so I suspect that I saw the light around that time. I certainly had no doubt that the new (current) layout would be built to 31.5, and I started that some 4 years back.

 

It seems to me so blindingly obvious, that if you’re going to build your own track, and your stock is 0F, then there’s no reason whatsoever not to use 31.5. I do recognise that there are many modellers who do not wish to build track, so unless they pay someone to make P&C, will be stuck with commercial offerings, and that will certainly work. But there is an alternative, it’s satisfying, and it offers advantages.

 

Best

Simon

[RichardBenn]

Hi,

 

I'm new to 0 and about to build a first trial turnout using 31.5mm. I have the Roxey gauges but are there any roller gauges available?

 

Thanks.

 

Richard

[Simond]

Richard,

 

Debs of this parish produced some lovely gauges, but I've not heard from her for a while;  I hope she still does.  Try a PM

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/user/13493-debs/

 

Otherwise, you're looking for someone with a lathe and a bit of 25mm ally or brass (or plastic, I suppose).  If you need a drawing, shout up.

 

best

Simon

Edited October 8, 2018 by Simond

[RichardBenn]

Thanks.

 

I've sent a PM so fingers crossed....

 

Richard

[martin_wynne]

Debs has had health issues, in and out of hospital. She sometimes posts in this topic: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/229-early-risers/page-7193&do=findComment&comment=3309610

 

Martin.

[Simond]

Martin,

 

I’m sorry to hear that, please pass my best wishes if you have the opportunity.

 

Best

Simon