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Hornby Discount Limits


melmerby
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I think this all goes a lot further, and is more complex, than we are tending to see it.  

 

Firstly Hornby (and others) will obviously have some concern about the spread of commissioning and other new entrants to the overall model railway business especially if the overall size of the market cake is little changed but is being cut into smaller slices for each 'manufacturer'.  This is working in two ways and one of those is that many retailers are getting much shrewder about the number of models they pre-order.  This is partly because of Hornby's history over the past few years but also because of the impact discounters are still having on potential sales, and because there are lots of commissions/new entrants in the marketplace who are inevitably taking market share, almost wholly via direct sales.  Thus if Hornby can exercise some influence over retail price discounts they are probably seeing it as protecting pre-ordering which in turn means protecting the size of their orders from the factories.  

 

I suspect it also means, to Hornby at any rate, that they might think they have found a way of adversely affecting the business model of those who do still try to sharply discount - some might regard that as a rather Machiavellian idea but you never know.  In other words although Hornby might not like the idea of retailers who offer rock bottom prices on their models while selling their own commissions at top level prices there isn't much they can do about it because ceasing to supply such retailers would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.  So instead they reduce the initial margin on sales of their models (not just model railways I presume?) to that which some smaller retailers can probably already afford so they won't suffer but the big discounters might.

 

The second area takes us back to my earlier point that Hornby no doubt hope it will encourage the 'ordinary' retailers to order more because they would now be more likely to sell it compared with a discounter who is prepared to knock off the full 15%.  However I seriously wonder if that will work because many smaller retailers tend, I believe, to restrict their pre-ordering for other reasons, such as the way the overall market is now working with the various commissioners and new entrants taking a share of the existing cake as well as the treat posed by the deeper discounters.  Indeed numerous posts on RMweb would suggest that is a sensible policy because it is quite common to see comments along the lines of 'I'll wait until the price comes down and won't pre-order' often accompanied by 'I won't be bothered if I miss out anyway'.

 

Which obviously takes us a stage further because in all likelihood there seems a good chance that the 10% approach might not deliver what Hornby want it to deliver.  Pre-orders from smaller retailers might not improve because a 'sophisticated' (posh word for skinflint) section of the market will continue to look for a pricing race to the bottom and won't necessarily care if it doesn't buy a particular model or item.  The worse aspect of this is however that if pre-orders to Hornby don't change models or future proposals (especially the latter) will be up against much stricter financial criteria within the business and consequently might never appear.   This is where Hornby's lack of innovation in UK model railway marketing, in particular, could create further problems for the business overall as simply fiddling with retail discounts as a perceived tool for hopefully changing how the market works doesn't strike me as recognising how the current model railway market actually works.

 

Coming on from that it seems obvious to me that Hornby needs to take a much more radical and better thought through approach to the rapidly changing UK model railway market.  Bachmann is already showing - notwithstanding its horrendous supply problems - that innovation can work but we see none of that from  Hornby and we have actually seen regression in its approach to marketing over the past year with some previously good ideas knocked on the head or dropped and a return to some rather old fashioned ways of doing things which sit uneasily in the age of rapid communication and a rapidly changing market.  The first step is obviously to select and make things in the higher price ranges which people want to buy - Hornby can produce the goods as several examples over the past few years have shown but that takes us to the second part of the equation which is making those things in the correct number which will result in a sell out from the warehouse and which will achieve the right return.  After some past gaffs it has been a little surprising to me to see Year 2/3 models appearing where Year 1 output still lurks on the shelves or (under the previous regime) was sold off cheap to achieve cash flow and sales totals.  LCD has, very sensibly in my view, put a block on that 'fire sale' approach but that does increasingly mean getting it right first time on picking the right things and selling them

with sufficient profit on the investment.

 

Hornby's development team do seem to have been very astute in picking out things which would sell and be 'highly rated' by an appreciative market and we simply don't yet know what is going to follow their ability to pick up the sort of things the market wanted.  Here of course lies a huge advantage for the commissioners because they are generally close to the market, often have an excellent knowledge of the prototype railway and some of its history and pick up from their customers what amounts to 'market intelligence'.   Something incidentally which Hornby's development folk were rather good at as well when given free rein to meet and interact with customers etc.   So closeness to the market and an ability to innovate in a rapidly moving market seem to be essential in order to get the right products - that means a lot more than a man in a nice suit saying to somebody 'oh and that's another steam train we make'.  And wish lists aren't everything as some others have very successfully shown.

 

That's a starting point for the high end but also have what in theory is a lower end market - it's got a brand but in reality not much else and it has a confusing pricing structure in relation to the overall market.   It's been said many times before but Railroad needs a darned good sort out and re-marketing, I'll say no more.

 

Then we come to how marketing and selling interacts with the overall market, the retailers, and us - the end customers.  time to leave fortress Sandwich and get out there actually building relationships with all of those market areas and not ignoring them or trying to fob them off.  Just look at how some of the innovators do it - there's a lot more to market interaction than farcebook and an annual model launch/catalogue.  The market, certainly the end market, craves news and novelty and and significant parts of it wants to interact with real people in the supply end.  Is that a waste of time for folk in the supply end - not if it boosts your bottom line it isn't.  Much more to it of course because selling also involves pricing as well as product and it involves retailer discounts.  So how's this for a radical approach - offer a larger trade discount or better payment terms on higher price range products to smaller retailers than the usual across the board trade discount;  that would really help them compete with the bigger discounters - really prove that Hornby supports the smaller retailers, then they might increase their orders.

 

However you cannot get away from the fact that Bachmann have had a similar policy in place for years now - and it doesn't seem to have harmed them financially as a result.

 

I agree that with the constant changes in selling policy over the past few years there might be concerns over Hornby's implementation of the policy - but if the principle works for Bachmann (and HJeljan see merit in it) then it can work for Hornby too.

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Sad that yet another manufacturer going down this route . I know it’s supposed to protect smaller shops but does it really . The only issue is things that are likely to be in short supply eg Blue Merchant Navy , perhaps where you might want to pre order to make sure you get one . I don’t desperately need anything, it’s only Model Railways after all , so I’ll just wait it out and see if there’s anything I fancy in the bargain bins.

Pretty sure the Blue one will come round again once it sells out, Maybe different number or so. I would not worry about it too much unless you want it immediately.

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However you cannot get away from the fact that Bachmann have had a similar policy in place for years now - and it doesn't seem to have harmed them financially as a result.

 

I agree that with the constant changes in selling policy over the past few years there might be concerns over Hornby's implementation of the policy - but if the principle works for Bachmann (and HJeljan see merit in it) then it can work for Hornby too.

 

Bachmann's policy worked well when things were cheaper and the difference was at a max of £20. Going back a few years, a Bachmann Deltic or class 40 being between £60 and £90 vs Heljan's £100+.

 

Today the situation has reversed. Bachmann continue to have big year or year increases, but Heljan's increases have been marginal in that time. We find Bachmann's diesels going from £130 at the start of the year to £150 now and set for £170 by the start of next year, while Heljan sits at the £120 or £130 max.

 

Barwell have reported small losses over the last couple of years. This is put down to supply. But then Maclaren said last year their car unperformed due to the engine. So we could well find that once supply is back, Bachmann might find the items hard to shift anyway which is the same as Maclaren suddenly getting better engines but their car still fails to perform anyway. The first issue may be hiding the second.

Bachmann have compounded the problem by not announcing the price until the year before, and then often revising it upwards.

 

I got fed up of ordering and cancelling and I'm sure shops have too. So I don't pre-order under these conditions anymore.

 

The R&D costs of these models are such that a manufacturer needs to have a heathly pre-order book. And you need strategies that help support that. I gave a good example of Kernow's Bulleid diesel and other new entrants are being very creative here. There are plenty of other pre-order strategies which can be used that benefit the manufacturers, shops and end customers alike. So far it seems the big manufacturers strategy is "we'll limit the discount for 6 weeks and they will be forced to buy it from the local model store whom art the source of fresh blood... hehehehehe".

 

Remember I don't need model trains but Hornby et al do need end customers. But the question at the base is one of keeping local stores. Now while its rare to find a model shop in a shopping centre these days, most do have geek centres (comic book fans) which suggests this is the up and coming generation of collectors. The train market probably is dieing and maybe all this discount limiting will have zero influence in the end for the spikes we see now are just just the start of the death throes. The hobby needs new blood to survive and trains was the geek item of yesteryear, how to create a new fashion again is the real challenge manufacturers face......

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The price label doesn’t have to match the amount rung in on the cash register.

 

There’s ways around it.

 

I wonder if we will see more discount schemes, loyalty credits and discount vouchers ? Free post is one increasingly common approach.

Edited by adb968008
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Barwell have reported small losses over the last couple of years.

 

I understood that its Bachmann's parent company (Kadder) that has made a loss - not Bachmann itself. They have said that profits have been affected by a lack of models, but that some of their other brands like Woodland senics and Proses tooling range have performed strongly making up some of the shortfall.

 

 

 

Remember I don't need model trains but Hornby et al do need end customers. .

 

True, but Hornby do not exist to pander to your wants - they exist to make money for shareholders. The fact that this now does not align with your views (but at one time did) doesn't make any difference

 

If Hornby's financial performance isn't to the liking of the shareholders / banks (99.999999999999% of whom could give a toss about model railways) Hornby will change its strategy to do so, or alternatively be sold / bought out / wound up as appropriate.

 

Hornby have significant debits and are only still trading because the banks / city share traders are content to keep it that way. If Hornby does not dance to their tune it will quickly end up like all those high street chains that have gone into administration and been rapidly closed down.

 

I would also dispute your assertion that the model railway market is "dying". It is in fact undergoing a slow transformation into the preserve of the wealthy, and as with manufacturers of luxury motor cars, boats, jewellery its perfectly possible for a company to lake a decent profit from a small number of consumers.

 

If you don't like it - tough, its called capitalism and the power of the free market.

Edited by phil-b259
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The other concern here is that the Derails' email mentioned additional price increases on those items yet to appear from Hornby's 2018 range - which based on previous year's increases is usually around 10%. I must say that I cannot think of another sector where price increases are so relentlessly high year-on-year - a big tender loco from Hornby for instance, about 5 years ago came in at around £120 RRP, and thus around £90 - £100 discount, whilst now you won't get any change from around £180 RRP, and about £160 discount. Just how many locos are people buying at that price? White goods and electrical items invariably reduce in cost over time for example, yet seemingly models don't. 

 

Telling that you can still buy many 2016 Hornby releases through their website (such as the first GWR liveried re-tooled King). Price resistance will shrink sales volume and in turn will shrink production runs which will in turn push up prices which will in turn generate more price resistance - a vicious circle. 

 

I don't know that the answer is, but I don't think models will still be made in China by 2030, that's for sure. 

 

CoY

Edited by County of Yorkshire
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I understood that its Bachmann's parent company (Kadder) that has made a loss - not Bachmann itself. They have said that profits have been affected by a lack of models, but that some of their other brands like Woodland senics and Proses tooling range have performed strongly making up some of the shortfall.

 

 

 

 

 

Not correct Phil.  Over the past two of their financial years Bachmann Europe have made a loss.  On the other hand in their last annual report Kader had at last managed to get their model railway manufacturing into profit - this was achieved by various means but one small element of it has clearly been the way the profit on Bachmann Europe's UK outline models has effectively been moved from Bachmann Europe to Kader by increasing the ex-factory price charged to Bachmann Europe by Kader.  This was in reality a long overdue change as a widespread view among many in the hobby and at the retail level was that Bachmann models were underpriced, albeit many potential customers now see them as overpriced.

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True, but Hornby do not exist to pander to your wants - they exist to make money for shareholders. The fact that this now does not align with your views (but at one time did) doesn't make any difference

 

If Hornby's financial performance isn't to the liking of the shareholders / banks (99.999999999999% of whom could give a toss about model railways) Hornby will change its strategy to do so, or alternatively be sold / bought out / wound up as appropriate.

 

Hornby have significant debits and are only still trading because the banks / city share traders are content to keep it that way. If Hornby does not dance to their tune it will quickly end up like all those high street chains that have gone into administration and been rapidly closed down.

 

I would also dispute your assertion that the model railway market is "dying". It is in fact undergoing a slow transformation into the preserve of the wealthy, and as with manufacturers of luxury motor cars, boats, jewellery its perfectly possible for a company to lake a decent profit from a small number of consumers.

 

If you don't like it - tough, its called capitalism and the power of the free market.

 

I agree Hornby et al have to make a profit for the business owners. This is not in dispute. My argument is they may have sabotaged the pre-ordering system by making pre-ordering UN-attractive/pointless to end buyers whom seem to be well informed these days. The problem is compounded if QC has been poor in some cases.

 

This will make it hard for businesses to build up a pre-order book.

 

The hobby always was for the wealthy, that has not really changed only the wealthy people whom are interested are getting older. The young wealthy today are into other hobbys. The geek is interested in other things today to collect.

If we take our hobby, Wrenn prices might still be holding on e-bay, but its a safe bet that there are no new Wrenn collectors coming on line and I suspect the value is getting to the point where it will collapse as currently collectors leave this world and their collections are disposed of.

Canary breeding used to be very popular. My father was a champion breeder in the 80s and part of the last big generation to be interested in breeding birds. I'm now his age and have no interest.

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Perhaps we need a thread where people can give their opinion, with reasons, whether any given model in the pipeline is likely to sell out. within six weeks.

 

I just checked my last 12 new purchase locos bought at the usual discount, 15% or whatever.

 

Surprisingly:

Four sold out immediately and went on to command large premiums.

Four remained in stock for many months and prices remained fairly constant

Four crashed to big discounts from the price I paid within a few months (variously from three to twelve months).

 

What to conclude from this?

Well there is a nice symmetry here so I suppose the manufacturers did a reasonable job of pricing overall.

I did predict three of the four winners but obviously got the four losers wrong, or I would have held off purchasing.

 

On the basis of this, I conclude that I'm not particularly good at predicting the winners and losers.

 

So back to Line One...

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Perhaps we need a

 

Surprisingly:

Four sold out immediately and went on to command large premiums.

Four remained in stock for many months and prices remained fairly constant

Four crashed to big discounts from the price I paid within a few months (variously from three to twelve months).

 

What to conclude from this?

Well there is a nice symmetry here so I suppose the manufacturers did a reasonable job of pricing overall.

I did predict three of the four winners but obviously got the four losers wrong, or I would have held off purchasing.

 

One...

It is not surprising at all. One of Hornby's bug bears is that either produced too much (which then sits in an outsourced warehouse) or too little like Sir William Stanier and Pecketts requiring reruns.

 

While I agree small model shops need to be part of the overall strategy, my point is they could have addressed the above suppy demands better with a well thought out pre-order strategy attractive small shops and end customers alike. Instead they copied an obsolescenct Bachmann model as a knee jerk reaction making any pre order look unattractive to end buyers which in turn will make judging demand even harder.

The 10% discount in Hornbys case is much different to their own online sales so maybe it is also intended to help there too.

 

Certain New entrants facing the same manufacturer constraints have been much more creative making pre orders attractive. I,m assured a quality and a price with often the knowledge late comers could pay more.

Edited by JSpencer
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For a household name this is a pretty risky strategy. The legality of this, as explained above, is unclear, but it never looks good for a brand to be seen to be attempting to fix the price of their products.

 

Bachmann are under the radar so selective distribution agreements will not cause much of a stir.

 

The Competition and Markets Authority would certainly be eager to have a good look at a high profile target like Hornby.

 

 

The newspapers love to knock a brand and just one call to The Sun or The Daily Mail could see them in a PR nightmare. It was clear from their handling of the Airfix Afghan House brouhaha that the team at Hornby Towers are lacking in PR nous. "Hornby Grinches try make Christmas toys more expensive" is not a great advert regardless of its accuracy.

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For the sake of clarity, it's worth reading the CMA open letter to suppliers and resellers in relation to the action of setting reseller prices including minimum price setting, which this policy is. The sample cases indicate the CMA is willing to take a proactive stance, not just against 'big names'. The CMA in particular warns resellers (retailers) about their liability if they agree to terms with suppliers that are found to be in breach of the regulations.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/620454/resale-price-maintenance-open-letter.pdf

 

Previously, the Hornby management team, two teams ago. when introducing their new reseller terms at that time, introduced a new discount that only applied to smaller retailers, it was periodically assessed and was given when the value of supplies made was below a certain figure IIRC as advised by the owner of my local shop. I was told by a retail contact that these terms led to a disagreement with Hs probable largest retail customer, with orders being reduced to meet only pre orders. This was obvious at the time as that retailer did not show new H releases received by other retailers as in stock, for several weeks.

I don't know who blinked in the end, but could H afford to have a similar disagreement/action now with it being in a less favourable financial position.

Edited by rembrow
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One other thing this does for Hornby is return value to their product. When Lyndon announced no more mass discounts to clear stock he stated this as one of the reasons. This is another step to restore this to the brand.

It also starts the process of rebuilding the relationship with the retail trade which many smaller shops lost when Hornby dumped lots of stock at silly prices with a few big retailers selling stock for less than they were buying it for.

This to me would look like another step in the rebuilding of Hornby as suggested by Lyndon when he took over.

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.

The Competition and Markets Authority would certainly be eager to have a good look at a high profile target like Hornby.

The newspapers love to knock a brand and just one call to The Sun or The Daily Mail could see them in a PR nightmare. It was clear from their handling of the Airfix Afghan House brouhaha that the team at Hornby Towers are lacking in PR nous. "Hornby Grinches try make Christmas toys more expensive" is not a great advert regardless of its accuracy.

What are you seeking to achieve?

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You are rather missing the point.

 

Nowhere in UK legislation does it say manufacturers HAVE to supply any retailer with their products - if it did then most franchised car dealers would disappear overnight!

 

It is perfectly legal for a manufacturer to refuse to supply a retailer should they discount the manufacturers product lines to heavily in order to protect the value of the product being sold.

 

What is not allowed is for manufacturers to insist that a product must be sold at a given price by the retailers it supplies - and it is only that aspect which trading standards etc can enforce.

 

So Bachmann, Heljan and Hornby are acting perfectly legally by saying that they will not supply retailers with their products if the retailer offers discounts grater than 15% / 10% for the first 6 weeks after the manufacturer starts shipping the product to retailers.

 

 

More widely railway modellers need to get real - why should they routinely expect / demand discounts in the first place? In my view discounting should be left until it is needed for a genuine reason - say shifting stuff that has been hanging around on retailers shelves for ages or as part of a one off special promotion.

 

The car retailer example is not a good one.

 

There are rules for general sale, which demand that fixing the retail price is not allowed.  There are different rules for distributors (as in car sales rooms), who can have a price minimum fixed and can have regional limits on where they sell to.  A distributor is seen as an arm of the company for which it is doing the distribution even though legally it will be a separate concern.  

 

I am equally unsure if a company can legally refuse to supply if a retailer (not distributor even if that distributor acts like a retailer)  discounts.  The company is supposed to treat all companies on an "equal footing" - although that equality can be tailored.  So for example restricted to bricks and mortar establishments would be allowed if that process was applied equally.  Similarly bulk discounts are legal if applied equally - which clearly has the possibility to benefit some retailers over others, but is still regarded as equal treatment.

 

On what exact basis firms have decided that they can limit the size of discount applied at point of sale for a limited period has been deemed to be within the rules, I am unsure.  I think it unlikely however that such limitations have not been tested with the various legal departments of each of the model rail producers.  

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I understood that its Bachmann's parent company (Kadder) that has made a loss - not Bachmann itself. They have said that profits have been affected by a lack of models, but that some of their other brands like Woodland senics and Proses tooling range have performed strongly making up some of the shortfall.

 

 

 

 

True, but Hornby do not exist to pander to your wants - they exist to make money for shareholders. The fact that this now does not align with your views (but at one time did) doesn't make any difference

 

If Hornby's financial performance isn't to the liking of the shareholders / banks (99.999999999999% of whom could give a toss about model railways) Hornby will change its strategy to do so, or alternatively be sold / bought out / wound up as appropriate.

 

Hornby have significant debits and are only still trading because the banks / city share traders are content to keep it that way. If Hornby does not dance to their tune it will quickly end up like all those high street chains that have gone into administration and been rapidly closed down.

 

I would also dispute your assertion that the model railway market is "dying". It is in fact undergoing a slow transformation into the preserve of the wealthy, and as with manufacturers of luxury motor cars, boats, jewellery its perfectly possible for a company to lake a decent profit from a small number of consumers.

 

If you don't like it - tough, its called capitalism and the power of the free market.

Yes but they make money for shareholders by pandering to our wants . A company that loses sight of the requirements of its end customer will fail, and that includes his price expectations .

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It is not surprising at all. One of Hornby's bug bears is that either produced too much (which then sits in an outsourced warehouse) or too little like Sir William Stanier and Pecketts requiring reruns.

While I agree small model shops need to be part of the overall strategy, my point is they could have addressed the above suppy demands better with a well thought out pre-order strategy attractive small shops and end customers alike. Instead they copied an obsolescenct Bachmann model as a knee jerk reaction making any pre order look unattractive to end buyers which in turn will make judging demand even harder.

The 10% discount in Hornbys case is much different to their own online sales so maybe it is also intended to help there too.

Certain New entrants facing the same manufacturer constraints have been much more creative making pre orders attractive. I,m assured a quality and a price with often the knowledge late comers could pay more.

A very good point . If the level of discount is restricted to 10% might some people be tempted to order direct instead to ensure supply rather than relying on a shop receiving their full order instead of allocations that have happened in past. Comes back to Hornby sorting out its manufacturing/supply chain.

 

What happens with preorders already in existence . I’ve got a J36 on preorder with Rails on the basis it’s a reputable supplier and it was the cheapest price. Will Rails/Hornby still honour these prices . I might just cancel otherwise and see what happens

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One little thing which seems to be overlooked, is the question of warranty repairs, as far as I can make out ( and could be wrong here ) is that for Hornby to repair under warranty

the item in question has to be returned from the dealer from which the item was purchased , for which Hornby will have a record of such item being supplied to the retailer.

Where does that leave the bargain hunters who buy off traders without overheads who source from the wholesaler? 

Bachmann have the same system in hand, if it's not purchased from an official dealer then it has no warranty.

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...

I'm just sharing 30 year's experience in brand marketing.

 

As a consumer, not very keen on manufacturers attempting to keep prices artificially high.

Well, now I’m curious. Hornby and Bachmann have for some years been making huge losses. That would suggest their prices have been too low, yes?

 

So why do you think their prices are “artificially high” - especially since the recent signals were that Hornby’s apparently interminable “recovery” is going even less well than planned?

 

I have almost no experience in brand management, so I’m keen to learn from you why I’m wrong, and what their pricing should correctly be.

 

Paul

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Well, now I’m curious. Hornby and Bachmann have for some years been making huge losses. That would suggest their prices have been too low, yes?

 

So why do you think their prices are “artificially high” - especially since the recent signals were that Hornby’s apparently interminable “recovery” is going even less well than planned?

 

I have almost no experience in brand management, so I’m keen to learn from you why I’m wrong, and what their pricing should correctly be.

 

Paul

Huge losses aren't necessarily due to low prices - it's more likely that the prices are too high and therefore they can't sell in sufficient quantities to make a profit.

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Huge losses aren't necessarily due to low prices - it's more likely that the prices are too high and therefore they can't sell in sufficient quantities to make a profit.

There are other factors too. Bachmann and Hornbys limited supplies , Hornbys large company overheads for something that’s really quite small now .

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Id say your right and wrong!

 

Yes, prices have been way to low. It’s a specialist/collectors maket and they should be levering the “pricing power” (the maximum that is sustainable for their products). Clearly, products have been undersold for a period of time.

 

“Artificially high” is in relation to the MRRP, i.e. I look for the greatest discount from the list price, the most competitive deal I can find.

 

The core value to the consumer relates to the perceived quality/desirability of an item, which determines is “pricing point” in the Market.

Well, now I’m curious. Hornby and Bachmann have for some years been making huge losses. That would suggest their prices have been too low, yes?

 

So why do you think their prices are “artificially high” - especially since the recent signals were that Hornby’s apparently interminable “recovery” is going even less well than planned?

 

I have almost no experience in brand management, so I’m keen to learn from you why I’m wrong, and what their pricing should correctly be.

 

Paul

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One little thing which seems to be overlooked, is the question of warranty repairs, as far as I can make out ( and could be wrong here ) is that for Hornby to repair under warranty

the item in question has to be returned from the dealer from which the item was purchased , for which Hornby will have a record of such item being supplied to the retailer.

Where does that leave the bargain hunters who buy off traders without overheads who source from the wholesaler?

Bachmann have the same system in hand, if it's not purchased from an official dealer then it has no warranty.

The wholesaler is a legitimate route to Market, they have had an exclusive distributor agreement in place with Hornby for over 30 years, they don’t retail (you can’t walk in as a high street customer), you need trade references, just not a bricks and mortar reference, nor is it industry specific.., so it’s not hard to open an account, but easier than going direct.

 

Back when I did swap meet trading (in a personal role as a side income when I was a university, if you ever attended swap meets in the midlands and remember a 20 year old kid with long hair dragging his girlfriend around in an A reg VWPolo.. well that was me), any way...I was told to return it to the wholesaler, or defer to an authorised Hornby service dealer.

I can’t imagine that advice is different now, but there’s just not many spares and there not very standard anymore.

 

However I was separately a Hornby service dealer specialist, from a different position elsewhere, and Lima (Riko) too at the time, so in my case it was a moot point.., I did it myself.

 

Just some anecdotes from this time..

(I still have my service dealer notes / service sheets, official authorisation letter at home, I didn’t ever cancel it.. I wonder if somewhere in some filing cabinet i’m still listed, 27 years later ?) ;-)

I’ve also still got a Lima Spare parts tray at home, issued to their retailers at the time, it had everything you needed in it, cogs, pickups the lot, only thing I have left is armatures, brushes and coupling hooks.. about 100 of them.

Spare parts used to be fun, and easily accessible, every part was catalogued, priced and usually available on demand.

 

Similarly that same wholesaler offered stationary goods, which I thought might be a good idea, as I was at uni still, quite what I was thinking I do t know, but today, 25 years later I still have dozens of boxes of drawing pins, glue pens and string from that 1993 purchase.., and made in England too.. my daughters good for school homework for eons to come... if someone wants rare new unused Made In England Drawing pins let me know.. we can do a deal.

 

One final thought, the whole thing about manufacturers advising prices isn’t new... look through old mags at Replica Railways prices... you’ll not find a single advert deviating from RRP on any of there rtr locos, coaches and wagons..from any shop in the early 1990s... Godfrey used to stalk me at BR open days with a price list in his hand to remind me what to charge, whilst i’d do a runner with my camera and leave someone else on the stall :-)

Edited by adb968008
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On the question of whether or not this is legal I think that can only be definitively answered in the event that it is tested in court (the favourite answer of the European Commission to any questions about the legality or otherwise of things subject to directives and regulations). Certainly, I think there are enough indicators that the policy of limiting discounting may constitute illegal price management that I wouldn't like to be the person told to deal with it in a company if we got a legal letter on the matter.

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