InnoTrans 2018

[4630]

I'm fortunate to be attending the InnoTrans event held at the Messe Berlin exhibition centre, which starts on 18th September and runs until 21st September.  

 

InnoTrans is an International trade fair which the organisers divide into five segments; 

 

Railway Technology,

Railway Infrastructure,

Public Transport,

Interiors,

Tunnel Construction.

 

There is also an outdoor track display area where assorted rolling stock can be displayed on 3,500 metres of track.

 

In total the event occupies all 41 halls available at the Berlin Exhibition Grounds.

 

Although primarily a trade show, once that has finished there is a two day public exhibition.

 

As and when I can I'll upload a few photographs of some of the exhibits for general interest.

 

To kick off here are a couple of exterior shots of a new Class 755/4 destined for Greater Anglia, constructed by Stadler.  I'm guessing it will eventually carry the number 755405.

 

 

 

Rock Rail is sourcing the funding for these units.

 

Siemens brought along 3 coaches of Desiro City 717017 destined for Great Northern services to Moorgate.

 

 

More photos as and when I get the chance.

 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

Here goes with a few more posts featuring Greater Anglia's class 755 bi-mode multiple unit.

 

 

Articulation seems be in vogue...

 

 

And for the interior...

 

 

 

 

I sense there might be the odd disagreement or two about access to the available sockets...

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how passengers cope with the following feature of these units.   The bi-mode part of the unit has what can best be described as an access corridor through which passengers can pass to move from one end of the unit to the other.  There's nothing to suggest that access through this space will be prohibited to passengers.

 

A couple of observations - there don't appear to be any 'hand holds' to aid mobility and also the lack of any doors at either end might mean that the passenger space at each side could be noisy.

 

 

Oh yes - It's also a tad narrow...

 

More to follow, including a few cab photos so any Greater Anglia drivers on the forum can see what they'll be getting in the not too distant future.

Edited September 18, 2018 by 4630

[flapland]

I assume the corridor is for the relief driver and fireman to walk through on those long non stop express runs it will do.

 

Then again perhaps not. :-) 

[4630]

Here are some cab photos of the Greater Anglia class 755.

 

A curiosity to start with - this is a four car unit which should make it a class 755/4 and not the 3 car variant which is a 755/3.  The full unit number is not displayed on the front end of the unit, only '405', but the interior of one cab displays 755325.  The cab at the other end was locked.

 

I've not seen a full list of coach numbers published yet so it's difficult to be definitive about what is right.  I suspect that Stadler have brought along a hybrid ( in more senses than one probably!) to display at InnoTrans.

 

Any way these are some cab photos of 755325 or 755405.  Apologies in advance for some apparent lens flare.  The cab was directly facing the sun and was a bit crowded so getting an optimum position wasn't easy.

 

 

We clearly weren't at Attleborough and neither were we attached to another unit, so I suspect Stadler had some demo software running in the cab.

 

 

 

 

 

The driver's seat was comfortable, as one would hope, and the cab air conditioning was very effective - it was sunny all day in Berlin with a temperature around 26C (78F in old money).

 

That's just about it for the Greater Anglia class 755.  IMHO I think customers passengers will like them.  They're certainly a 'step change' over the units currently used.

 

The next lot of photos will feature Siemens 'Desiro City' class 717 destined for use on Great Northern's Moorgate services. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by 4630

[NXEA!]

These look lovely and a potential winner for best new unit in this country since the 175’s and 444’s. Can’t wait to sample them!

[Zomboid]

I'd certainly be pleased if it transpired that my line was going to get some of those.

They'll be a big improvement on the 153s and 156s which currently run the Anglia branches.

[4630]

Having sampled the delights of the Stadler built Greater Anglia class 755, we arrive at the latest build from Siemens for the UK market.

 

The class 717 is a six car unit, although only 3 cars were on display at InnoTrans, from Siemens 'Desiro City' range of units.  They will shortly replace the 1970s vintage class 313 electric-multiple units (EMU) on Govia Thameslink Railway's Great Northern branded Moorgate services.

 

The exterior is familiar enough as it's based on the class 700 EMUs introduced over the past couple of years or so.

 

The one significant external difference is the door and steps built into the front of the unit to facilitate emergency evacuation in the narrow confines of the Moorgate tunnels.

 

And as a result of that feature the drivers cab is some what constrained.

 

Now, without wanting to compare apples with oranges, I know the class 717 is designed to operate a different type of service to the Greater Anglia 755, and will have been budgeted for and specified accordingly.  The comparison between the two in passenger terms is rather stark though IMHO.  So here's the interior, again modelled on the class 700 EMUs.

 

 

It's probably a good idea to emphasise 'priority seating' but I'm not sure that this feature will stand up to the everyday rigours of life on the Moorgate line. 

 

And the now standard passenger information display.

 

It's a functional unit.

 

It'll move passengers from A to B.

 

But I'm left with the overwhelming impression that there's actually little progress here for passengers.

 

That's it for the Class 717.   The next photos will be of the new Stadler built cars for Glasgow Subway - that's the Glasgow Underground, not a branch of the take away outlet! 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

Before we get to the Glasgow Subway cars, just a very quick interlude.

 

If you want to buy the horn system for your latest piece of rolling stock, this could be the gear to go for. 

 

Great company name too.

Edited September 19, 2018 by 4630

[Covkid]

Thanks for the piccies and info "4630"

[Steadfast]

I know there's been no official announcement as yet, but any murmurs going round on the class 93s?

 

Jo

[4630]

I know there's been no official announcement as yet, but any murmurs going round on the class 93s?

 

Jo

 

 

That's a very good question.  I wish I knew the answer to that one.

 

This is the obvious event for the deal to be announced, but there's nothing that I'm aware of after Day 2.  Of course InnoTrans still has 2 more days to run, but I'm not here for those, mores the pity.

 

Stadler do have a Eurodual locomotive on display here and the DRS class 68s and 88s were based on those, albeit in what was called the 'UKLight' version to fit the loading gauge.

 

If they do base the class 93 on this locomotive it will be a real beast.  It's a CoCo wheel arrangement so I guess that's more testing, safety cases and paperwork to be approved if they do develop another 'UKLight' equivalent.

 

It wasn't in an ideal location to photograph but here's the 'full fat' Eurodual locomotive, 10 of which are being constructed for German operator Havelländische Eisenbahn (HVLE).  It can operate on OHL at 25kV and 15kV, and also has an installed 2.800kW diesel engine.

 

 

 

If the deal does get signed soon I guess that the first locomotive will just about be ready for handover at InnoTrans 2020.  There's certainly a precedent - 88003 at InnoTrans 2016. 

 

 

Edited to add a further photograph.

Edited September 19, 2018 by 4630

[FelixM]

Hi all,

 

my photos from today are here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91875255@N05/albums/72157699934853211

[4630]

As promised, here's a look at the new cars for Glasgow's Subway, built by Stadler.

 

The exterior looks smart in the white livery.  It'll be interesting to see how that holds up in a dusty metro environment.

 

 

 

 

 

The interior is bright and despite the restricted size of the vehicle doesn't seem too claustrophobic.  I guess peak loading at 'rush hour' could be a different matter.

 

 

 

 

There was certainly no shortage of information displays as they were on virtually every bulkhead and by some doors.

 

 

 

I understand that although they will initially operate with a driver on board, the eventual aim is for these trains to be driverless.  Here's the cab.

 

 

 

 

A quick look at one of the bogies fitted with shoe gear.

 

 

 

So that's it for the new Glasgow Subway cars.

 

Although InnoTrans is all about showcasing the latest developments across transport technology, it still manages to include a little bit of nostalgia.  With that in mind the next post will include a few pictures of Emma doing her stuff. 

 

[nightstar.train]

I believe the idea with the Glasgow subway trains is for them to have drivers initially whilst being introduced and tested. Then once the whole fleet has been introduced and the old ones taken away they’ll install platform doors. These are sorely needed as most of the platforms are very narrow and somewhat terrifying to stand on. The new trains have different door spacing to the old trains so it can only be done once the new trains are fully in service. Then once we have platform doors they intend to go over to driverless trains and remove the cabs from the units.

[4630]

Amongst all the shiny metal and glitzy new rolling stock at InnoTrans this little gem was lurking.

 

Ok, she's not a pacific or some other mega locomotive, she's a humble tank engine.   But Emma is obviously a survivor, is well cared for by her volunteers, and was happily engaged giving cab rides up and down the Messe Berlin access spur that leads to the rail network.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and a link to short video that I took on my 'phone.

 

https://twitter.com/RussWPhoto/status/1042366383944871937/video/1

 

Next up will be a look at some of the electric locomotives on display at InnoTrans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

Now for some electric locomotives that were on display.  I've already posted photos of Stadler's latest EuroDual locomotive in post #11, so now to look at some of the others.

 

Newag displayed the latest version of their 'Dragon 2' family.  Freightliner operate earlier versions of this locomotive in Poland.

 

 

 

DB Regio are receiving new class 102 locomotives built by Skoda to operate in push-pull mode with new double-deck coaches on Munich-Nuremburg services.

 

 

 

ÖBB (Austrian Federal Railways) are obviously loyal Siemens customers as newly built Vectron class 1293 018-8 is the 500th locomotive delivered to the operator.

 

 

 

 

In line with current trends, both Stadler's EuroDual and Newag's locomotives are available as 'electro-diesels'.

 

That's it for electric locomotives.

 

As Hitachi are in the process of building assorted flavours of class 800s for various UK TOCs, I thought for the next batch of photos it would be interesting to show what Hitachi are delivering to Trenitalia, the main operator in Italy.  

Edited September 21, 2018 by 4630

[4630]

On to look at one of Hitachi's offering at InnoTrans.

 

Hitachi Italy are constructing four, five and six car double deck electric-multiple units for Trenitalia to be used on various regional routes.  The trains have been branded 'Rock' by Trenitalia and are due to enter service during 2019.

 

The livery doesn't make the most of the body shape and design, but that's purely my opinion.  No doubt it will have its supporters, hopefully in Italy. 

 

 

 

Although a regional and not primarily an inter-city EMU, I was interested to look at the interior, particularly the seating, to compare with Hitachi's flavours of class 800.

 

Upper deck

 

This seat arrangement looked odd and felt uncomfortable as the seat base is set closer to the floor than the rest of the seating on this deck.  Head room wasn't great either.  

 

Not an awful lot of space in the overhead racks but there's plenty of space underneath those seats.

 

Lower deck

 

 

 

 

I've had one journey so far in a class 800 between Reading and Paddington.  With the exception of those seats on the upper deck mentioned above, I sense that the seats fitted in the Trenitalia Rock would provide a more comfortable experience.  Especially so for longer journeys.  They felt well padded and provided good legroom.  

 

Having experienced what the Italians are getting from Hitachi, I thought it would be useful to see what Skoda are building for the Germans - so that will be up next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

These double deck push-pull sets are being built by Skoda for the DB Regio route from Munich to Nuremberg via Ingolstadt, with motive power provided by a single Skoda class 102 electric locomotive as shown in post #16 above.

 

 

The route distance from Munich to Nuremberg is a little over 100 miles.  In UK terms that's a touch less than the distance from Brighton to Bedford served by Govia Thameslink Railway's class 700 electric-multiple units.  So what does the German traveller get?

 

Second class as the Germans call it, rather than Standard class;

 

The majority of the interior, on both upper and lower decks was laid out in bays with tables.

 

 

But there was also some airline style seating, with seat back tables.

 

 

 

From what I could see, virtually all seating in Second class had access to electric sockets - one per seat.

 

In my view the Second class seats were good for a journey of 100 miles.  

 

Fully accessible toilet.

 

 

There was very little First class provision, but this wasn't a full length set.  But what there was was arranged as 2 + 1 and was very comfortable.

 

 

 

It's interesting to look at how the different European operators specify their train interiors.  So the next batch will look at new trains for ÖBB, the Austrian Federal Railways.

Edited September 22, 2018 by 4630

[4630]

The Bombardier Talent 3 electric-multiple unit built for ÖBB Austrian Federal Railways is, for me, an excellent example of what operators in the UK should be free to specify commercially if they so wish without the 'dead hand' of DfT interference.

 

A railway vehicle that IMHO is comfortable, stylish, modern and includes well thought out features for passengers.  This is the first of 46 on order that will be introduced from 2019.

 

 

 

I like the interior colour scheme.  The seats really are fabulous.  In my view there's nothing comparable in the UK currently.

 

 

 

 

 

The passenger information display is good and clear, with the ability to display information in different languages...

 

 

...as were some of the safety notices.

 

 

An interesting feature was this in built wheelchair ramp by one pair of doors.  An identical ramp was fitted by the doors on the opposite side of the vehicle.

 

 

 

Next up will be a three car electric-multiple unit from Newag that has a couple of features that I've not seen before in a passenger railway vehicle.

 

  

[dvdlcs]

Something that stood out for me in the Austrian unit (post #19) is the depth of the seat cushions. Admittedly there is more to comfort than the depth of the cushion, but the seats in some of the other units looks rather thin in comparison.

[4630]

I found this three-car electric-multiple unit built by Newag of Poland particularly interesting in terms of being just the kind of unit that would be great around major UK cities if OHL electrification had been allowed to progress further.  A basic no/few frills urban electric unit, available in two, three, four and six car configurations, designed for short distances.

 

This Newag Impuls 2 is part of an order for 14 units being built for ŁKA, a suburban operator in Łódź, a city in central Poland.

 

 

 

 

The interior looked smart, with comfortable seats.  The unit was second class only.

 

 

 

 

 

There were two features that particularly caught my attention;

 

 

Apologies for the 'schoolboy error' of capturing my reflection in the photo.

 

I'm unsure if any trains operating in the UK today carry defibrillators for emergency use.  I know they're available at some major stations.  It struck me as a good idea and worth considering the practicalities of fitting in trains in the UK.

 

 

Having a ticket machine on the train was also, to me at least, a novel feature.  It was obviously specified by the operator ŁKA to fit their mode of operations, but struck me as an idea that UK TOCs might want to consider.  

 

 

The final batch of InnoTrans photos will look at a new train being built for Südostbahn (SOB), Swiss South Eastern Railway.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by 4630

[jjb1970]

The biggest improvement I'd like to see on modern UK trains is for a manufacturer to sort out the dire ride quality that ruins so many of our modern trains. I find it rather sad that despite so many great advances in many other aspects of modern train design that ride quality has gotten much worse. The class 350's are dreadful on the WCML and I took an Electrostar from Gatwick to London a few weeks ago which was just as bad.

[4630]

The biggest improvement I'd like to see on modern UK trains is for a manufacturer to sort out the dire ride quality that ruins so many of our modern trains.

 

 

That's an interesting observation.

 

I wonder if the answer to this one is a little more holistic though?

 

In no particular order; British Rail Research was a world leader in the dynamics of the wheel-rail interface.  Who's doing this valuable primary research and development work these days?  Do the manufacturers, or is down to Network Rail or TOC fleet engineers?  If it's the manufacturers I'd be sure they're not sharing their insights with competitors. 

 

Trains today are heavier - the phrase 'Siemens lard butt electric-multiple units' first coined by Roger Ford, Technical Editor at Modern Railways springs to mind.  If I recall their class 450 and 444 EMUs required suspension modifications as it was too stiff and affecting both ride and track wear.

 

How is the track standing up to more frequent and heavier trains?  I frequently see Network Rail test trains whizzing up and down the lines local to me in West Yorkshire.  I'd be reasonably confident that the output of that testing is the analysis and urgent rectification of major track issues.  But how about the general gradual natural decline over time in track performance that doesn't warrant immediate attention?  Particularly as it's expensive in time and hence money to arrange an engineering blockade to rectify.  Especially when the maintenance budget is under constant pressure and scrutiny.

 

How easy is it for drivers to report 'rough riding' and how quickly does action get taken, either by Network Rail or TOC fleet engineers if it's a train issue?

 

Maintenance, as I know that you know, is after all, a form of insurance.  If you don't do enough of the right sort at the right intervals, there's a risk that it'll come back and bite you on the ar*e.

 

This is just an observation, but in my few days in Berlin riding around a reasonable amount on the S-Bahn for some lengthy journeys, the ride quality on what was a fast and frequent service was exemplary.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by 4630

[4630]

The final batch of photos of the rolling stock on show at InnoTrans is the newly built Stadler electric-multiple unit for Swiss operator Södostbahn (SOB).

 

Six sets of eight-car units are being built for the operator's St. Gallen to Lucerne service and five four-car units for the St. Gallen to Rapperswil service.  Introduction to service is planned for 2019.  It was an eight-car set that was on show.  

 

When looking at these photos it's worth bearing in mind that the distance from St. Gallen to Lucerne is around 100 miles-ish - so less than say London Waterloo to Exeter, or Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

 

 

 

The second class interior is light, modern and stylish with comfortable and supportive seating arranged in a mix of bay and airline style.  

 

 

 

The passenger seating in first class was the most comfortable of any train that I sat in at InnoTrans.

 

 

 

If the standard and first class seating and coach layout in UK trains that operate on similar length journeys matched those fitted to this Stadler unit, I think that the majority of passengers would be happy - and certainly more comfortable. 

 

 

There were other notable features - a couple of second class coaches included a refreshment area and a separate snack dispenser...

 

 

 

...and in keeping with environmental considerations, separate containers for different grades of recyclable and non-recyclable waste.

 

 

And inside one of the driver's cabs.

 

 

 

The quality of the interior and features included on this train is where I think UK train operating companies should be aiming for new rolling stock (and refurbishments too for that matter) - DfT permitting of course under the current structure that constrains the industry.

 

It contains all the elements that most passengers need on a journey and combines them in a comfortable train that would make rail travel pleasant - assuming, of course, that the actual service delivered matched the experience on the train.

 

That wraps up the look at the rolling stock at InnoTrans.

 

For the final post I'll add some miscellaneous photos from the event, plus some quick snaps that I took in a spare 30 minutes at Berlin Hauptbahnhof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

That's an interesting observation.

 

I wonder if the answer to this one is a little more holistic though?

 

In no particular order; British Rail Research was a world leader in the dynamics of the wheel-rail interface.  Who's doing this valuable primary research and development work these days?  Do the manufacturers, or is down to Network Rail or TOC fleet engineers?  If it's the manufacturers I'd be sure they're not sharing their insights with competitors. 

 

Trains today are heavier - the phrase 'Siemens lard butt electric-multiple units' first coined by Roger Ford, Technical Editor at Modern Railways springs to mind.  If I recall their class 450 and 444 EMUs required suspension modifications as it was too stiff and affecting both ride and track wear.

 

How is the track standing up to more frequent and heavier trains?  I frequently see Network Rail test trains whizzing up and down the lines local to me in West Yorkshire.  I'd be reasonably confident that the output of that testing is the analysis and urgent rectification of major track issues.  But how about the general gradual natural decline over time in track performance that doesn't warrant immediate attention?  Particularly as it's expensive in time and hence money to arrange an engineering blockade to rectify.  Especially when the maintenance budget is under constant pressure and scrutiny.

 

How easy is it for drivers to report 'rough riding' and how quickly does action get taken, either by Network Rail or TOC fleet engineers if it's a train issue?

 

Maintenance, as I know that you know, is after all, a form of insurance.  If you don't do enough of the right sort at the right intervals, there's a risk that it'll come back and bite you on the ar*e.

 

This is just an observation, but in my few days in Berlin riding around a reasonable amount on the S-Bahn for some lengthy journeys, the ride quality on what was a fast and frequent service was exemplary.  

 

I've found that trains from the same basic families that have an abysmal ride quality over here have a magic carpet ride quality in Germany, yet in other parts of Europe the ride quality is unsettled and with the same sort of lateral movement problems that bedevil the trains on our track. Which indicates that it is either a track issue, or a bogie design issue in so far as they've been designed for track of a certain standard and not adapted for different regimes. I sometimes travel in the LNWR class 319's, now in every other way they're just not in the same class as the 350's (at times it feels like they're about to start disintegrating or the motors are at deaths door) but in terms of ride comfort they have a much nicer ride as they are mercifully free of the very violent lateral movement of the 350's. I find the vertical ride of the 350's is fine, it is the lateral/yaw movement which is dreadful. I guess it might well indicate a need for some more joined up thinking between NR, the TOCs and ROSCOs.