Modelling the New South Wales Railways

[GW Jim]

Hello.

 

Wondering if there are any members on here who model the New South Wales Railways, 1950-1980’s. Have been reading up on the subject which is in itself is very, very interesting, but, as with most things in life the more one finds out the more questions one has!!!

 

I ask as I am about to start modelling this rail system and any pointers would be a help.

 

Many thanks.

 

James

[D6775]

Hi James,

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK and not NSW? There is Victorian layout (Broadford) that does  afew exhibitions a year which is based on the line between Sydney and Melbourne in the 80's so runs a mix of VIc & NSW stock on the Standard Gauge and Victorian stock on the broad Gauge (both lines run side by side). I think it has been in Continetal Modeller three times now, I'll try and dig out the issue numbers.

 

There are quite a few RTR stock manufacaturers now some of which below:

 

http://auscisionmodels.com.au/

 

http://ontrackmodels.com.au/

 

http://sdsmodels.com.au/

 

http://auscisionmodels.com.au/

 

http://www.powerline.com.au/

 

 

I know there are others but these might help to start with. Its not cheap to get into especially in the UK with Customs and shipping charges and most models are short runs so tend to sell out.

 

Hope some of this helps.

 

Al.

[GW Jim]

Al.

 

Many thanks for the info. I noted the fact that the manufacturers are doing, a bit like the rest of the world, short runs which will never encourage the growth of our wonderful hobby. I suppose it's all about balance! Every bit of info is of help when the real thing is so far away!!!

 

Are the track standards similar to the UK, talking 50/60 and a bit of the 70's? I take it most modellers use Peco trackwork?

 

I know the road to my questions will be full of interest!

 

Thanks again.

 

james

[D6775]

I'm not 100% sure on NSW as my interest is in Victoria, but as far as I am aware NSW is pretty much wholey 4' 8 1/2" so normal HO standards should be fine. I am pretty sure most NSW modellers just use standar peco track.

 

I was very much the same with my interest, lots of stuff in boxes and a grand plan, but its some way off yet.

[GW Jim]

Thanks Al.

 

Is there any further folk on here who share an interest in Australian modelling of any type?

 

Have to say just looking at it for the very short time I have, I reckon it's a very interesting subject.

 

James

[D6775]

There are a few threads kicking about James and quite a few Aussies who are modelling the UK scene, these are some of the Australian threads I know of.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126122-ross-creek-south-australian-railways-in-the-early-80s/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120355-skipton-station-victorian-railways-in-ho-scale/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/32450-australian-modelling/

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97916-the-great-australian-outdoors/

 

All worth a read if nothing else, some have been updated others a little dusty!

[GW Jim]

Al.

 

As you rightly said 'all worth a read'. But, as said before the more I find out the more questions I have!!

 

Does anyone subscribe to Australian Journal of Railway Modelling? Where can I order this from, anyone?

 

James.

[Ravenser]

Al.

 

Many thanks for the info. I noted the fact that the manufacturers are doing, a bit like the rest of the world, short runs which will never encourage the growth of our wonderful hobby. I suppose it's all about balance! Every bit of info is of help when the real thing is so far away!!!

 

Are the track standards similar to the UK, talking 50/60 and a bit of the 70's? I take it most modellers use Peco trackwork?

 

I know the road to my questions will be full of interest!

 

Thanks again.

 

james

 

 

I spent a few years in Sydney in my teens. From detailed observation of 1980s NSWGR trackwork (ie standing on the platform at N.Sydney waiting for my train) I would have thought Peco code 75 would be fine. NSWGR track was (and probably still is) flatbottom rail on wooden sleepers, though I believe steel sleepers were used in parts of the Outback (eg the Main Western near Broken Hill)

 

I'm not aware of any non-standard gauge lines in NSW, so there should be no scale/gauge issues (unlike most of the other states, where 5'3" or 3'6" gauges come into play)

 

[Apart from the tourist Zig Zag Railway using ex Queensland 3'6" equipment. But I don't think that's really what you mean]

Edited September 30, 2018 by Ravenser

[GW Jim]

Ravenser.

 

Many thanks for the conformation regarding the track work, I did, at one point wonder if Peco code 83 might be the better type to use but looking at various blogs note that almost all use code 75 or 100. I have a box of unopened track along with a number of turnouts saved from a layout years ago! Just wish there was someone in the UK selling Australian kit!

 

I would be very interested in hearing from anyone else about there buying issues.

 

Happy modelling.

James

[Allegheny1600]

Hello James/Jim,

A few years ago, I bought a lovely model of an NSW AD60 Garratt from Eureka Models! http://eurekamodels.blogspot.com/ - I think this is their "new" site.

It's a great model but I can't really say I'm an Aussie modeller, sorry.

However, I do know of another AUS outline modeller, I'll try and alert him to this thread.

[dullsteamer]

G'day James,

 

Even though I've worked for the railway in NSW since 1975 in its various incarnations, I've never modelled it. But I can still help you with your search for information. A useful source of information for modelling perway and structures is here:

 

http://grapevine.com.au/~datashet/set_ldscat.html

 

More general information about the NSWGR can be sourced from the Australian Railway Historical Society here:

 

https://arhsnsw.com.au/resource-centre/

 

And I might as well mention my own club's NSWGR layout, based on Waterfall. That happens to be where I live, and also my home depot. Apart from them being a friendly bunch of people and a short drive down the road from my place, I figured I'd join because I was already qualified for the road!

 

http://imra.org.au/waterfall_.html

 

As you'll see, we used Peco Code 83 track on Waterall as its a fairly close match to the appearance and geometry of NSWGR track of the period we modelled.

 

A lot of NSWGR stations and yards were on large, sprawling sites. If you're not of a mind to build something big, you might consider one of the suburban goods yards or industrial sidings for ideas or inspiration. Sydney had a network of segregated goods-only lines that were very busy in the period you're interested in. Many of these sidings were in fairly restricted locations, verging on cramped. They were served by what we called "trip trains", which would call at various locations to deliver or collect traffic as required.

 

The ARHS recently published a book by John Oakes that covers all the yards and sidings in the Metropolitan area, containing many photos and track diagrams.

 

https://arhsnsw.com.au/product/sydneys-forgotten-sidings/

 

I still have my 1989 edition of the Sydney Metropolitan sidings handbook, which contains track diagrams, shunting instructions and load tables for the various classes of locos in use then. I can scan pages from that for you if you're interested.

 

During the steam era Sydney suburban trip trains would typically be hauled by 50 or 53 class 2-8-0s, or 36 and 59 class locos towards the end of the era. Early diesel era working was with 41 class locos, later on replaced by 48, 49 or 73 class units. All of these loco types have been produced commercially in HO.

 

There was also a small parcel service provide by dedicated electric parcel vans. These were operated out of the former Mortuary station in Sydney Yard. Larger suburban stations had separate parcel offices, often with their own sidings. Sydney EMU trains have also been produced commercially in HO.

 

Anyway, there's a lot of information available, as well as a good selection of models to choose from. Good luck with your project, feel free to ask me for help if you need it.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

Edited October 18, 2018 by dullsteamer

[St Enodoc]

Al.

 

As you rightly said 'all worth a read'. But, as said before the more I find out the more questions I have!!

 

Does anyone subscribe to Australian Journal of Railway Modelling? Where can I order this from, anyone?

 

James.

That journal has ceased publication:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121636-australian-journal-of-railway-modelling/

 

However, there is a separate magazine called "Australian Model Railway Magazine" which comes out six times a year:

 

http://www.australianmodelrailways.com/amframe.html

 

There's also a whole forum here which covers modelling Australian railways among other things:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/166-down-under-railway-modellers/

[GW Jim]

Mark & St Enodoc.

 

Many thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

I have acquired a number of copies of ‘Byways of Steam’ by Eveleigh Press and joined the ARHS, now receiving copies of their magazines lots of useful information in these and today 3 back copies of Australian Journal of Railway Modelling arrived, these were ordered from AR Kits.

 

Very interesting railway system with so many connections with UK builders in my chosen time frame.

 

I now need to make a serious start to my NSWGR modelling after coming home to a pile of Australian mags and books on the door mat after spending 3 weeks cruising around the Med!!! Just pleased the wife never got to them all!!

 

Thanks again.

 

James

 

 

[Ravenser]

 

There was also a small parcel service provide by dedicated electric parcel vans. These were operated out of the former Mortuary station in Sydney Yard. Larger suburban stations had separate parcel offices, often with their own sidings. Sydney EMU trains have also been produced commercially in HO.

 

Anyway, there's a lot of information available, as well as a good selection of models to choose from. Good luck with your project, feel free to ask me for help if you need it.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

 

Hornsby, 1979

[Ross34]

Hello James/Jim,

A few years ago, I bought a lovely model of an NSW AD60 Garratt from Eureka Models! http://eurekamodels.blogspot.com/ - I think this is their "new" site.

It's a great model but I can't really say I'm an Aussie modeller, sorry.

 

You'll be looking for a buyer then??

[Ross34]

Hello.

 

Wondering if there are any members on here who model the New South Wales Railways, 1950-1980’s. Have been reading up on the subject which is in itself is very, very interesting, but, as with most things in life the more one finds out the more questions one has!!!

 

I ask as I am about to start modelling this rail system and any pointers would be a help.

 

Many thanks.

 

James

Hi Jim

 

I model South Australian Railways (1980s) in HO scale based in the UK.

I did build a large-ish continuous run layout and it attended one show last year. Unfortunately due to a number of circumstances I (rather reluctantly it has to be said) scrapped it.

Too big to put up at home was the deciding factor.

 

So now I'm half way to completing a smaller switching type layout based around Port Pirie in South Australia.

I'll start a layout thread when I get chance.

 

To obtain stock I deal direct with various model shops in Adelaide and I've been fortunate to have been to Australia twice in the last 10 years so made sure I did plenty of shopping!

Postage and import fees can unfortunately be expensive when buying from Australia though. (Thanks to HM Customs!!)

 

Occasionally I'll pick up some stuff from eBay.

 

There are some good forums in Australia similar to RMweb worth joining too.

 

This is a great film about shunting at Darling Harbour in Sydney that fits in with the end of your time period - plenty of inspiration.

 

 

Hope that helps.

[Dorkingian]

Some time ago I made this video which includes an NSWGR loco:

 

https://youtu.be/76Ch4yFGJeY

 

 

[GW Jim]

Ross34/Dorkingian.

 

What wonderful Videos, thanks. Sorry for the delay in responding, lot to do and very little time to do it!!!

 

I have been on a quest to find a time line on the NSWGR S Wagon's, without success!!! I am still looking for a small station & goods network to model, any suggestions on this one?

 

There does appear to be very few Australian layouts on the circuit, I have only seen a few. I don't think having 'limited runs' will help young/new modellers to get in on the action.

 

Now just waiting for the June's Australian Model Railway Magazine to hit the door mat. I have been able to buy a number of 'Byways of Steam' and some used PAL videos just wish there was more items on ebay!! How good is the Lima Class 44 and are there detailing kits for it out there?

 

Would welcome others to input on this as it all helps me and perhaps others!!!

 

Happy Railroading to all.

 

James.

Bristol, UK.

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi All,

I found a fascinating NSW modellers blog and thought you guys might like a look?

http://bylong.blogspot.com/

Check out his blog list too - there's lots more where he came from!

Cheers,

John.

[dullsteamer]

Gday James,

 

I can’t claim to be an expert on S trucks, but I can offer some suggestions. Use the search term “S truck”, as that’s how they were generally referred to here. They were built from 1907 until about 1956 from memory, and there are four distinct variants - all metal body with square corners, all metal body with round corners, all wooden body, and a composite wood/metal body. If you’re modelling the 1950s to the 1980s the last variant with the composite body is the one you’ll need most of. There was a two-part article in AMRM issues 191 and 192 by Craig Warton that covers them in great detail.

 

The last S trucks in revenue service were those used on the Morandoo-Ashfield wire train. They weren’t withdrawn until 1984. I worked this train a number of times, and it was always interesting. In those days the S truck was used as the standard measure of vehicle length, classified as one unit, and other wagons were defined by how long they were compared to an S truck. That’s why you see the marking “equivalent length” stencilled on freight stock. For example, a wagon marked as “equivalent length 2.2” was 2.2 times as long over coupling faces as a single S truck. When the guard was preparing the train they would calculate the load and the length by reference to the truck tickets and stencilled data, then record that information on their X2010 train consist form, their guard’s journal, and the driver’s timesheet. The length calculation was critical as in those days most crossing loops and refuge loops were fairly short, and so the maximum permitted length of a goods train that could be put away was 80 units long plus locos and van. 

 

The Morandoo-Ashfield wire train was always made up to 80 vehicles. The amount of slack action in that number of S trucks was considerable, which lead to rough riding for the guard. As a result it often ran with a JHG brakeman which had cushion drawgear. That made the ride at the back tolerable for the guard, but you still needed to hang on tight at times. Other times you’d run with an unrebuilt MHG, in which case you’d be hanging on to something solid all the time.

 

This blog has some useful info on modelling S trucks:

 

http://lambingflat.blogspot.com/search?q=S+trucks

 

When you ask about a small yard to model, are you thinking of a country or suburban location? Most yards in the country took up a lot of space, whereas many of the suburban yards were quite compact.

 

As for the Lima 44 class model, it’s alright for its age, but suffers from two major problems. The dimensions and shape of the cab and nose are wrong, and it’s powered by the old pancake motor on one bogie only. There are repowering and detail kits available, but for about the same price and less effort you can get a better model from Trainorama or Auscision.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

 

 

[dullsteamer]

Here’s a few track diagrams for small suburban yards and sidings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

[GW Jim]

Hiya Mark.

 

Many thanks for the info regarding the class 44, all very helpful for trying to make my mind up!!!!

 

There are some interesting track plans here but I still can't make up my mind about what to build!!!

 

Again thanks for your help and all the best.

 

James.

[Craigw]

Jim,

 

I was the person who wrote the S wagon article in AMRM in 1995. It covered as much as I could and ran to about twenty pages over two issues plus a modelling article as well. Rough timeline:

 

18' S wagon 

1907 - square corner steel body wagon entered service ~ 2500 built up to 1910

1910 - round cornered steel body wagon entered service  ~ 7500 built up to about 1918

 

1943 - wooden body 18' wagon built on steel underframe - two versions built, the second version had something close to the standard 18' underframe.

1945 - "renewals" of steel body wagons started. These are accounting rebuilds. New body - of composite construction with wooden door. Some were built with wooden ends.

 

Renewals continued to about 1956 a few new S wagons were built in 1958.

 

The SDS S wagon uses a post 1952 underframe and the type of hinges and ironwork used around this time. Pre 1952 the underframe had a different reinforcing above the spring hanger and the door had a centre ironwork strip.

 

I now model GWR to P4 standards but the S wagon stuff still jumps around in my head, if you have questions on them or other 4 wheel wagons just ask and I will do my bes to answer.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Wolseley]

I used to model the NSW railways in H0 back in the late 1970s when practically all the rolling stock available were crude resin cast kits, rather than the excellent models available today.  I was intending to construct a model of a Sydney suburban station complete with overhead wiring, but didn't get any further than building rolling stock, including a few suburban electric trains (although I never got around to fitting the running gear).  With what was available at the time, the whole process was rather disheartening and I eventually threw the assembled kits in the bin and sold my brass locos (although I still have a Berg's Brass C30 in a box in the garage somewhere).  These days I run vintage Hornby Dublo three rail, but that's another story....

 

I still think that a Sydney suburban station could make a good model, now that we have the excellent (but not cheap) productions from Minimodels https://www.bergshobbies.com.au/products/17

 

You could have your station (fictitious or otherwise) on one of the main lines, which would allow you to operate a wide variety of locomotives and rolling stock, or you could place it on the North Shore line (Chatswood or Lindfield before they lost their sidings would be good, relatively compact prototypes) and you wouldn't need any more than two electric trains, one parcel car and a C30 or 48 class with a few odds and ends of goods stock.

 

 

[GW Jim]

Craig W & Wolseley.

 

Many thanks for the information. After having a number of delivery of items from Australia, which appears to unresolvable, if the currant crop of emails are anything to go on!!! Also the cost of ship is also a concern after which there comes the VAT/Duty RMail surcharge for importing, not to say the anything about the limit runs of items now being offered it almost begs the question is it all worth it?

 

Think I will just keep my options open for now and carry on doing some research. It would be wonderful to pop into a model shop and come out with a bag of S Wagons, but I guess that is hard to do even in Australia.

 

Cheers for now.

 

James.