Modelling the New South Wales Railways

[GW Jim]

Mark.

 

I have been looking at the track plan of Mulgrave that you kindly posted back in July. Reckon this could look good on a set of baseboards 12 foot long and perhaps 2ft wide. Maybe add 2 further sidings in the form of an oil depot, using a made up station name.

 

Do you think this could be a station plan from around the mid to late 1950's? I have to get out of my GWR mode that I've worked in for the past 50 years!!!!

 

Thanks again for your suggestions. All I need to do now is find a UK model shop who sell NSWGR stock. Think I may have more chance of winning the lottery without buying tickets!!!

 

Cheers.

 

James.

Bristol, UK.

[Ravenser]

On 16/07/2019 at 09:21, Wolseley said:

 

 

I still think that a Sydney suburban station could make a good model, now that we have the excellent (but not cheap) productions from Minimodels https://www.bergshobbies.com.au/products/17

 

You could have your station (fictitious or otherwise) on one of the main lines, which would allow you to operate a wide variety of locomotives and rolling stock, or you could place it on the North Shore line (Chatswood or Lindfield before they lost their sidings would be good, relatively compact prototypes) and you wouldn't need any more than two electric trains, one parcel car and a C30 or 48 class with a few odds and ends of goods stock.

 

 

 

Gordon is another candidate, with a third platform to terminate short-workings 

 

And if you have more room North Sydney has serious potential on a continuous run, though I've never come up with a sensible way of handling the Coathanger as part of a layout (I am guilty of perpetrating a cross between N Sydney and the bays at Leeds City on one occasion)

 

Any terminating points on the Illawarra line?

 

(And if anyone is feeling really ambitious, Cowan when the Main Northern suburban service terminated there.....)

 

But AUD 625 for a 4 car set... ?

[Wolseley]

On 27/09/2019 at 07:10, Ravenser said:

But AUD 625 for a 4 car set... ?

 

At those prices it might be a better idea to model the Carlingford line.....

[Ravenser]

36 minutes ago, Wolseley said:

 

At those prices it might be a better idea to model the Carlingford line.....

 

The track plan is certainly simple enough

[Wolseley]

11 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

The track plan is certainly simple enough

 

I was thinking more of the restricted train length and lack of passing loops on the line, which means that you could operate it prototypically with only one four car set (or even a two car set if you were running an off-peak service).  A little bit too simple maybe for sustained operating interest but it did at one stage in its existence have a couple of goods sidings.  I'm not sure when it lost them though (I seem to remember that they were still there in the early 1970s but out of use, but I could stand to be corrected on that).

[GW Jim]

Good morning all.

 

Not sure if I should be telling this to 'anyone' but...oh what the neck. I've just paid for, on ebay a copy of Byways of Steam 2. It's coming to me here in the UK from Australia. Now I remembered I had a few copies already but was unable to find them all, and yes you've guessed it, which when I did find them I already had a copy of BoS 2, At this point I can say I feel very silly indeed as I'm sure no one else has ever done this!!! All this said, tongue-in-check I'm wondering if anyone may be interested in buying a copy of 'number 2' from me, please get in touch james dot lucas at blueyonder dot co dot uk

 

Many thanks for not laughing at me, well not that I could hear anyway!!! 

 

James.

Edited October 9, 2019 by GW Jim

[GW Jim]

Just been wondering how many modellers of any Australian railway system there are here in the UK?

 

I know not all of them will be members of RMweb but it would be interesting see just how much interest there is on the top half of the planet!! As I may have already said I find the New South Wales Government Railway so utterly mesmerizing, I guess its what comes from living so far from it!!

 

It would be interesting to see your locations as well. I live just West of Bristol and I know of another modeller into the NSWGR, he lives in Clevedon.

 

Thanks for any responses.

 

James.

Edited October 11, 2019 by GW Jim

[GW Jim]

Ai.

 

In an earlier post you said your interests are the Victoria Railways. I have a question regarding it's interchange with the NSWGR and if so was this standard gauge? Would have been freight and passenger service this happened on?

 

Many thanks for any help/info offered as I find it all very interesting. 

 

It would be fun to have an Australian Railway's Day meet somewhere in the UK?

 

Cheers.

[dullsteamer]

On 27/09/2019 at 06:26, GW Jim said:

I have been looking at the track plan of Mulgrave that you kindly posted back in July. Reckon this could look good on a set of baseboards 12 foot long and perhaps 2ft wide. Maybe add 2 further sidings in the form of an oil depot, using a made up station name. Do you think this could be a station plan from around the mid to late 1950's? I have to get out of my GWR mode that I've worked in for the past 50 years!!!!

 
James,

 

Sorry I have replied sooner, I've been on a road trip through southern NSW with my son while he's on holidays from school.

 

The layout at Mulgrave didn't change between 1939 and the complete electrification of the Richmond branch in 1991, so it would be entirely appropriate for a 1950s era model. I wouldn't include an oil depot though, as they weren't typically a feature of suburban stations or smaller country stations. You might consider a small flour mill or meatworks instead, as there were a number of these on the suburban network that had rail service until the 1990s.

 

This website has a few useful photos showing how Mulgrave looked in the 70s and 80s.

https://www.nswrail.net/locations/show.php?name=NSW:Mulgrave&line=NSW:richmond:0#

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

[dullsteamer]

On 27/09/2019 at 07:10, Ravenser said:

Any terminating points on the Illawarra line?

Yes, a lot. Sydenham, Tempe, Rockdale, Hurstville, Oatley, Sutherland, Heathcote and Waterfall.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[dullsteamer]

On 28/09/2019 at 23:56, Wolseley said:

A little bit too simple maybe for sustained operating interest but it did at one stage in its existence have a couple of goods sidings.  I'm not sure when it lost them though (I seem to remember that they were still there in the early 1970s but out of use, but I could stand to be corrected on that).

The Shell Bitumen sidings at Rosehill were still in use at least until the mid 1980s. I shunted them many times on the trip trains T87/T88 when I was at Enfield. Both the station sidings and Rheem siding at Rydalmere were also still in use then. The last time I can recall shunting the Co-Op siding at Carlingford was on T88 sometime in 1986.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, dullsteamer said:

The Shell Bitumen sidings at Rosehill were still in use at least until the mid 1980s. I shunted them many times on the trip trains T87/T88 when I was at Enfield. Both the station sidings and Rheem siding at Rydalmere were also still in use then. The last time I can recall shunting the Co-Op siding at Carlingford was on T88 sometime in 1986.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

As you will already know but our UK friends might not, the Carlingford branch will close on 5/1/20 for conversion to the Parramatta Light Rail.

[dullsteamer]

On 11/10/2019 at 19:10, GW Jim said:

In an earlier post you said your interests are the Victoria Railways. I have a question regarding it's interchange with the NSWGR and if so was this standard gauge? Would have been freight and passenger service this happened on?

Prior to 1962, the main interchange between VR and NSWGR took place at Albury on the border between the two states. For interchange of passengers there was as very long platform with standard gauge on one side, broad gauge on the other. Passengers left one train and walked across the platform to their next train. 
 

Interchange of freight took two forms. Until 1962 Albury had transshipment sidings where loads were exchanged between SG and BG wagons. Once the standard gauge line from Albury to Melbourne was opened in that year, the other method was to exchange the bogies of wagons at a new facility at South Dynon yard in Melbourne. Wagons equipped for bogie exchange were identified by a black "X" on a white square, and the letter X as the last letter of the wagon code.

 

 

 

Two other break-of-gauge stations were at Oaklands and Tocumwal, where VR broad gauge lines crossed the border into NSW.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

 

[Ravenser]

On 12/10/2019 at 06:09, dullsteamer said:

 
James,

 

Sorry I have replied sooner, I've been on a road trip through southern NSW with my son while he's on holidays from school.

 

The layout at Mulgrave didn't change between 1939 and the complete electrification of the Richmond branch in 1991, so it would be entirely appropriate for a 1950s era model. I wouldn't include an oil depot though, as they weren't typically a feature of suburban stations or smaller country stations. You might consider a small flour mill or meatworks instead, as there were a number of these on the suburban network that had rail service until the 1990s.

 

This website has a few useful photos showing how Mulgrave looked in the 70s and 80s.

https://www.nswrail.net/locations/show.php?name=NSW:Mulgrave&line=NSW:richmond:0#

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

Just a thought, but would Richmond itself be a candidate?

 

No overhead, but the nearest thing to a traditional branchline terminus I've ever visited on a service train

 

Unfortunately the railmotor that someone did RTR in HO was - as they proudly proclaimed - correct for the Hunter Valley, not Richmond. At which point I decided that I wasn't paying that much money for something that wasn't quite right and for which I had no layout to run it on nor was likely to in the foreseeable future...

 

[GW Jim]

Mark.

 

Many thanks for your information. I think I will stick with my plan of using Mulgrave as a sort of scheme for my NSWGR layout.

 

But guys, please don't stop adding stuff to this post as no info is wasted. I would like to think other UK based modellers of Australian railways are reading this. 

 

Thanks again and keep up the good work.

 

James.

[D6775]

On 11/10/2019 at 09:10, GW Jim said:

Ai.

 

In an earlier post you said your interests are the Victoria Railways. I have a question regarding it's interchange with the NSWGR and if so was this standard gauge? Would have been freight and passenger service this happened on?

 

Many thanks for any help/info offered as I find it all very interesting. 

 

It would be fun to have an Australian Railway's Day meet somewhere in the UK?

 

Cheers.

 

HI James,

 

Apologies I hadn't noticed this thread had been updated! As others have said the transfer point between standard gauge & broad gauge was Albury until the through standard gauge was installed. Albury nowadays all being standard gauge.

 

I'm currently messing with UK O gauge so the Aussie stuff is taking a back seat (but there may be some progress over Xmas), keep an eye out for Broadford as its still doing the rounds, 80's/90's with both Standard and Broad gauge so there are lots of NSWR & Vic trains running, I'll ask Iain what dates he has lined up for it and pop them in here. I was fortunate enough to be helping Iain with it at Wigan the other week so one of my trains got a run out.

 

 

Regards,

 

Al.

[MarcD]

I'm hoping someone can answer this question. How uncommon is the use of bullhead rail in NSW railways? 99% of photos i have seen show flat bottom rail.

 

Marc

[Craigw]

2 hours ago, Furness Wagon said:

I'm hoping someone can answer this question. How uncommon is the use of bullhead rail in NSW railways? 99% of photos i have seen show flat bottom rail.

 

Marc

 

Double headed rail was used on the main lines built in the 1860s-1870s and then flat bottom was introduced. Bullhead was used in the 1890s on some lines, mainly around Sydney and Newcastle areas. 

 

Regards,

 

Craig Warton

[Ross34]

On 19/10/2019 at 10:07, D6775 said:

 

HI James,

 

Apologies I hadn't noticed this thread had been updated! As others have said the transfer point between standard gauge & broad gauge was Albury until the through standard gauge was installed. Albury nowadays all being standard gauge.

 

I'm currently messing with UK O gauge so the Aussie stuff is taking a back seat (but there may be some progress over Xmas), keep an eye out for Broadford as its still doing the rounds, 80's/90's with both Standard and Broad gauge so there are lots of NSWR & Vic trains running, I'll ask Iain what dates he has lined up for it and pop them in here. I was fortunate enough to be helping Iain with it at Wigan the other week so one of my trains got a run out.

 

 

Regards,

 

Al.

 

Do you think he would mind some SAR interlopers ?.. although my 44's wouldn't look out of place.

[Ross34]

Incidentally, Contikits has some NSW stock for sale..

 

http://www.contikits.com/index.html

 

They are at the Wakefield show this weekend.

[dullsteamer]

On 14/10/2019 at 06:07, Ravenser said:

Just a thought, but would Richmond itself be a candidate?

It certainly could be. But the downside is that a model of Richmond as it was would need a lot of space, as it was a typical sprawling NSWGR terminus. Compact it wasn't!  
 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Vinedusk]

On 26/10/2018 at 06:55, Ravenser said:

 

 

Hornsby, 1979

 

 

A bit earlier in time, these were labelled 'Fast Electric Parcel Van'.  It's weird livery.  The yellow emblem on the front used to be on diesel rail cars, I think.

 

I used to travel red rattlers regularly from Blacktown to Granville, then onto Yennora, until I got my first car.  Didn't catch a Sydney train until 2007, after that.

 

Gone are the days of standing next to the open (because it couldn't be closed) door. Of course, once you came into a station it would close from the momentum of braking and then wouldn't open.

 

Have done trips in the early 1970's from Strathfield to Cootamundra on the old Intercapital Daylight; Southern Aurora; and Spirit of Progress. Also from Liverpool to Coota on the Riverina Express.  Once went from Cootamundra to West Wyalong on the Temora Mail.  This was a regular train service to Temora; then a rail motor to West Wyalong.  With the chickens.

 

Sorry, I was too young to notice much outside of the carriage that we were in to add anything else.  The current batch of models done here should cover most of those trains mentioned.

 

"Please Stand Close" was the only sign that didn't have a 20 Pound penalty notice.

[dullsteamer]

5 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

A bit earlier in time, these were labelled 'Fast Electric Parcel Van'.  It's weird livery.  The yellow emblem on the front used to be on diesel rail cars, I think.

The vans were labelled like that until they were reliveried for the Blue Spot parcel service. That's when they got the railmotor stripes. Somewhere I have a photo of a van and 400 class railmotor No.402 side by side in the same livery.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[GW Jim]

I have in the last week or so issue 13 of the Australian Journal of Railway Modelling and a very interesting read it is. Copies can be ordered from

 

 https://stephenjohnsonmodels.com.au/shop/ajrm/magazine/australian-journal-of-railway-modelling-issue-13/

 

Cheers.

 

James. 

[MarcD]

As I have started to develop 7mm kits for NSWGR wagons I'm thinking of doing something small and simple in S7 normally I would use 124 bullhead rail and chairs, for a uk prototype, but I'm looking at using flat bottom rail. what would people suggest for the correct rail profile?  The prototype I have been looking at is Holt's Flat.

 

Marc