Unknown Hornby Decoder

[Peter Beckett]

Hi,

I have "inherited" a small Hornby non-sound decoder and having trouble identifying it using JMRI

 

CV8 = 48  (Hornby)

CV7 = 131  (????)

 

Any ideas, please?

 

Peter

[NIK]

Hi,

I have "inherited" a small Hornby non-sound decoder and having trouble identifying it using JMRI

 

CV8 = 48  (Hornby)

CV7 = 131  (????)

 

Any ideas, please?

 

Peter

 

Hi,

 

A clear photo of both sides would be useful.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Peter Beckett]

I will post pics tomorrow

 

Peter

[shibushe]

According to the NMRA Listing. 131 is.  Trix Modelleisenbahn. Who ever they are.

Sounds Germanic to me.

[newbryford]

According to the NMRA Listing. 131 is.  Trix Modelleisenbahn. Who ever they are.

Sounds Germanic to me.

 

CV7 is the software version, CV8 is the manufacturer. 48 is, as the OP says, Hornby

 

And Trix have been making model trains longer than most of us have been living. (The first Trix trains were made in 1935...…………)

Edited September 20, 2018 by newbryford

[beejack]

Peter

 

It depends on the number of pins.

 

The 21 pin is the R8245 Sapphire decoder.

The 8 pin would be either the R8249 or it's predecessor R8215. The R8249 has a blue spot on the chip and has a purple lead connected to the decoder but not the plug.

The 6 Pin is the X9719 (eg dcc fitted pendolino)

The 4 pin is the X9659

 

Brian

Edited September 20, 2018 by beejack

[Pete the Elaner]

Hi,

 

A clear photo of both sides would be useful.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

I thought the purpose of the Manufacturer & decoder codes was so you didn't need to take a photo of it?

 

 

I have just placed an R8249 on my programming track:

 

Manufacturer 48

Decoder ver  131

 

I have also noticed recently that JMRI does not recognise this decoder & reads it as unknown. I don't remember it always being like that.

[NIK]

I thought the purpose of the Manufacturer & decoder codes was so you didn't need to take a photo of it?

 

 

I have just placed an R8249 on my programming track:

 

Manufacturer 48

Decoder ver  131

 

I have also noticed recently that JMRI does not recognise this decoder & reads it as unknown. I don't remember it always being like that.

 

Hi,

 

I don't know of a table that will identify a specific decoder based on the values in CVs 7 and 8. Could you send me a link to a table please.

For example Zimo have dozens of decoders and they are on software version 27 or later so its not clear how they could identify an individual decoder using the eight bits of CV7 alone.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi,

 

I don't know of a table that will identify a specific decoder based on the values in CVs 7 and 8. Could you send me a link to a table please.

For example Zimo have dozens of decoders and they are on software version 27 or later so its not clear how they could identify an individual decoder using the eight bits of CV7 alone.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Once you know the maker (CV8), and the version number, then you need maker specific stuff.  Some makers have very little to nothing, and you can't get anywhere from CV values. Others have lots of information.   Zimo uses a variety of CV's around CV250 which will give you hardware type (ie. decoder model) and firmware release numbers down to decimal points of release (all Zimo decoders are firmware upgradeable by the end user).  JMRI uses those for identification, or you can do it manually.  Its documented in the Zimo manuals.

[Pete the Elaner]

Owing to a bout of insomnia, I spent a few minutes in the layout room reading Hornby decoders.

I don't have any R8215s & only the 1 TTS

 

10  Sapphire

13  R8249

131 R8249

132 TTS Class 60

 

So it appears that the R8249 has 2 codes. The one I removed from my 60 prior to installing the TTS looked smaller than I remember & it was the one coded 131 which JMRI did not identify.

I also don't remember noticing JMRI failing to identify a Hornby decoder before.

 

I suspect they have updated it & given it a new version number in CV7.

[Peter Beckett]

Thanks All,

Its the R8249 with a blue spot on the chip and has a purple lead connected to the decoder but not the plug.(Purple Lead removed but there is a blank connection on the decoder)

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[RAF96]

R8249 comes in several variants (not including the plug pin numbers).

Large blue spot in the centre of the mcu. V1.3 slight glitch with direction change on DC running.

Small blue spot in corner of mcu. DC running glitch fixed V1.31.

Ditto small blue spot. V1.32. Not known what change was for.

No spot. V1.33. Improved readback capability for many controllers. Roco, ESU, NCE, Digitrax, GM PA, Lenz.

This would possibly account for the CV code differences.

 

R8215 had red, yellow or white or no spot.

 

Rob

Edited September 21, 2018 by RAFHAAA96

[GoingUnderground]

CV7 is the software version, CV8 is the manufacturer. 48 is, as the OP says, Hornby

 

And Trix have been making model trains longer than most of us have been living. (The first Trix trains were made in 1935...…………)

Which means they predate Hornby Dublo by 3 years in the H0/OO market in the UK.

 

The British arm "TrixTwin" eventually formed the basis, via Liliput, for Bachmann's entry into the UK, whilst the german arm was taken over relatively recently by Maerklin, and lives on as the 2 rail DC versions of Maerklin's 3 rail AC models.

Edited September 21, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[melmerby]

 

R8215 had red, yellow or white or no spot.

 

Rob

And didn't deserve to be let loose on the poor unsuspecting DCC beginner!

It was total crap

I bought two "DCC fitted" which had the R8215 decoder and neither would work at all with my Lenz 100 system (or the Bachmann Dynamis in the shop)

I got in touch with Hornby and they sent R8249s as replacement without really querying what the problem was so they must have known they were rubbish.

 

Keith

[Oakydoke]

Which means they predate Hornby Dublo by 3 years in the H0/OO market in the UK.

...... whilst the german arm was taken over relatively recently by Maerklin.......

Relatively meaning almost a quarter of a century ago.

Well, more than 21 years ago to be precise.

[Crewlisle]

And didn't deserve to be let loose on the poor unsuspecting DCC beginner!

It was total crap

I bought two "DCC fitted" which had the R8215 decoder and neither would work at all with my Lenz 100 system (or the Bachmann Dynamis in the shop)

I got in touch with Hornby and they sent R8249s as replacement without really querying what the problem was so they must have known they were rubbish.

 

Keith

 

Keith,

 

After I decided to go DCC, I purchased eight Hornby R8215 decoders at the NEC in 2006.  When I got on the bus to go home everyone was asking what people had bought & when I said 'Eight Hornby R8215 decoders', one of the few DCC experts laughed & said they do not work on all DCC systems as they were not NMRA compliant (mine is a Lenz  LH 90 set).  He was right, they did not work on mine so I returned them & was given a refund except for the one I had tried.

 

I contacted Hornby, told them what happened & they were obviously aware of the problem & asked me to do some trials on modified R8215 decoders.  This went on for a few months & evolved into the R8249 & Sapphire decoders.  Hornby said I could keep the modified decoders plus a couple of extra ones.  I had six of the trial/modified ones & I have only had one fail.  The other five have functioned well for 10 years with no further problems with about 15 other locos fitted with Hornby R8249 decoders, once again without any problems.

 

Peter

[melmerby]

Re: R8215

 

It makes you wonder how somebody could design a DCC decoder that would not work on a Lenz system, from which the whole NMRA DCC specs were derived.

The R8249 is an improvement but is still pretty abysmal compared to similar priced devices from other manufacturers.

IMHO Hornby should really get someone to design them something better.

 

Keith

[Crosland]

It makes you wonder how somebody could design a DCC decoder that would not work on a Lenz system, from which the whole NMRA DCC specs were derived.

 

It depends exactly what "doesn't work" means.

 

Running or programming? for example.

 

There are a number of ambiguities in the NMRA specs that can trip up the unwary, even before plain bad design creeps in, mostly related to programming track operations.

 

Andrew

[melmerby]

It depends exactly what "doesn't work" means.

 

Running or programming? for example.

 

There are a number of ambiguities in the NMRA specs that can trip up the unwary, even before plain bad design creeps in, mostly related to programming track operations.

 

Andrew

The two locos I bought "ready fitted" Didn't work, full stop.

Select 3 on my Lenz system (supposedly default address) operate throttle - nothing. Read address - nothing.

Tried on the retailer's Dynamis, operate throttle - Nothing.

Phoned Hornby, I was asked "What colour spot is on the decoder?"

When I told them, I was told there were some issues with them and sent me some R8249s

 

Maybe the address wasn't 3 and it just didn't work in read mode? Makes the decoder totally useless.

 

Keith

Edited September 30, 2018 by melmerby

[NIK]

The two locos I bought "ready fitted" Didn't work, full stop.

Select 3 on my Lenz system (supposedly default address) operate throttle - nothing. Read address - nothing.

Tried on the retailer's Dynamis, operate throttle - Nothing.

Phoned Hornby, I was asked "What colour spot is on the decoder?"

When I told them, I was told there were some issues with them and sent me some R8249s

 

Maybe the address wasn't 3 and it just didn't work in read mode? Makes the decoder totally useless.

 

Keith

 

Hi,

 

Just for information according to the NMRA standards the default of 3 in the primary address (CV#1) applies to decoders prior to fitting.

So maybe a DCC fitted loco doesn't have to be set to address 3 when its sold.

 

Reportedly with a few manufacturers DCC decoders CV#1 go to a number other than 3 after a reset.

 

Not being able to read CVs is a problem - but does it make them useless?.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[RAF96]

An awful lot of discussion about the long dead R8215, when the R8249 is the current basic product. Even so the latter is getting on a bit and due replacement.

Rob