TOC’s hiring in stock from other TOC’s and operators.

[TravisM]

With Northern and Greater Anglia using DRS and West Coast Railways loco’s and stock to cover services, it’s made me wonder if TOC’s are willing to hire out any stock that’s not required at the time to other TOC’s who have availability issues or would they use the services of the likes of DRS, WCRC or others?

[Wherry Lines]

Using my local area as an example, Greater Anglia have been using an East Midlands 158 on the first Norwich - Lowestoft & return weekday service. In the past couple of years, I have also seen an Arriva Wales 150 in use and a London Midland 153 as well. 

[stewartingram]

GN 365s have been hired for use in Scotland.

 

Stewart

[newbryford]

East Coast regularly use EMT HST power cars (and some coaches).

 

Northern have previously used London Midland 153s and South West 158s for a couple of months.

Edited September 20, 2018 by newbryford

[HillsideDepot]

GWR regularly use a SWR 158 - but on the strict understanding that it must return "home" to Salisbury every night.

[TravisM]

GN 365s have been hired for use in Scotland.

 

Stewart

The 365’s in Scotland are those that are off lease from GN since the introduction of 700’s on Thameslink services.

[John M Upton]

South Eastern have the twenty three ex Thameslink Class 377/5's and the last two (numerically) Southern Class 377/1's 377163 and 377164, the latter still in Southern livery and branding.  Apparently these are permanent transfers now but still have to return to Southern territory at Selhurst for maintenance!!

[stewartingram]

The 365’s in Scotland are those that are off lease from GN since the introduction of 700’s on Thameslink services.

 

It has been quoted that (apart from the 50% of the class that are still in service) the 365s were stored oou, but then sub-leased to Scotland for emergency cover whilst gaining extra revenue for GN. Surprised me when I heard it I must admit.

 

Stewart

Edited September 21, 2018 by stewartingram

[Wheatley]

TOCs will hire units and crews from each other on a short term basis to cover failures but it depends on day to day availability. GC currently run one Northern service as the 180 would be sitting between turns otherwise. In general franchised TOCs won't have rolling stock spare for long term hire because if they had the DfT would have reallocated it already.

 

The spot hire and charter operators do have stock lying around doing nothing most of the week so are the obvious choice.

[turbos]

There is a certain amount of officially sanctioned sub-leasing goes on in the industry, this can happen for example when stock is due to transfer from one TOC to another but might be delayed in happening for a multitude of reasons. For example ScotRail sub-leased the 4 ex Hull Trains 170s when Hull Trains acquired 222s, also the ScotRail phase 2 170s all officially transferred to Southern when the franchise changed from First to Abellio although only 4 have actually gone to Southern and the rest have remained with ScotRail sub-leased from Southern, also there is currently units transferring to Northern as well. A small snapshot of some of one TOCs Turbostar fleet  The exact status of leased rolling stock in the UK changes almost daily and unless you are involved in that part of the industry it is almost impossible to keep abreast of all the changes that happen.

[Ken.W]

Sets being transfered's another issue, but yes TOCs do regularly hire in stock form others to cover availabillity problems etc.

 

On the EC, we regularly have EMT HST stock hired in. The first set I had today had a pair of EMT power cars on a full set of LNER coaches, and on occations there's been a full EMT set on EC service, and there also seems to be one at present, and also sometimes mixed stock in a set.

I've also passed several times recently an LNER set with an XC power car on one end, though use of XC's less common. There's also been occation when we had an FGW power car hired in.

There was several years ago, an EMT set on hire which did become a permanent transfer. Although since then re-liveried in EC and now VTEC/LNER it's still easy to tell apart as it's internally un-refurbished and retains it's BR style seating.

 

The TOCs don't normally hire in crews with the hired stock, unless there's an issue with Traction Knowledge such as the OP quoted locos and hauled stock on a TOC with knowledge of units only. In the case of the hired HST stock on EC, we work them ourselves, having being issued with a briefing notice on the minor post refurbishment differences.

In some cases, such as, I believe the 365s on Scotrail, traction training is done by the hiring TOC. Also in long term arrangements, on the EC the ' Thunderbird' 67s are hired in from DB and their predisessors, but we're trained on the 67 to work them ourselves.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Ken.W

[Talltim]

EMT had an SWT 158 for a while. Crews had to have a traction ‘refresher’* to use it as the passenger doors and internal door behind the front cab are locked out on SWT 158s so they are different.

*If I remember what I read a while ago it was just a quick read of some instructions

[Ken.W]

On the EC, we regularly have EMT HST stock hired in. The first set I had today had a pair of EMT power cars on a full set of LNER coaches, and on occations there's been a full EMT set on EC service, and there also seems to be one at present, and also sometimes mixed stock in a set.

I've also passed several times recently an LNER set with an XC power car on one end, though use of XC's less common. There's also been occation when we had an FGW power car hired in.

 

...and yesterday, passed an LNER set with a Scotrail power car at one end.