Burngullow Lane. - On the main line through Legend Land.

[TrevorP1]

Thank you for those @Stoker . The ply for the new baseboard tops arrived yesterday so I've been able to make a start today. Funnily enough I was trying to imagine the linhay whilst I was working. 

 

I was more thinking along the lines of an old style kiln but nothing is settled yet - far from it! One thing that is settled is that I want to do it properly. I'm aware of the information you have kindly put up and have spent some time studying it. I will most likely wait until least the late summer after I've made  another visit to Wheal Martyn. 

 

Good luck with changes in your life by the way. All that space - inside and out!

[Stoker]

Just now, TrevorP1 said:

Thank you for those @Stoker . The ply for the new baseboard tops arrived yesterday so I've been able to make a start today. Funnily enough I was trying to imagine the linhay whilst I was working. 

 

I was more thinking along the lines of an old style kiln but nothing is settled yet - far from it! One thing that is settled is that I want to do it properly. I'm aware of the information you have kindly put up and have spent some time studying it. I will most likely wait until least the late summer after I've made  another visit to Wheal Martyn. 

 

Good luck with changes in your life by the way. All that space - inside and out!

The old coal fired pan kilns have the major disadvantage of being long, averaging around 250' to 300'. I only ever encountered one rail served prototype of "layout size" at Burngullow West, which may be of particular interest given it's location. It's actually still extant in remarkably good condition complete with piles of clay, despite about 50 years of abandonment. It shared the rather grand square chimney with the neighbouring kiln. I conducted a survey of the building before I left the UK and have attached scale drawings.

Also attached and possibly of interest, is Burngullow West's bag store, a standalone building which apparently received clay via blondin from the dry opposite. This structure is visible on the right hand side in most photos taken from the bridge next to Burngullow station, looking toward the St Dennis branch where it diverges from the mainline.

[Stoker]

Also probably worth mentioning that I have modelled several prototype and fictional linhays, drys, and other related structures in Google Sketchup Make 2017, which is an easy to use 3D software available for free download online. If you are interested in these models for research purposes, I can email the model files upon request.

[TrevorP1]

The Burngullow West kiln certainly looks interesting - to think of the number of times I've driven past that and didn't know exactly what was there, although the chimney is quite familiar of course. When I began thinking about my slight change of direction I bought a copy of Maurice Dart's book 'West Cornwall Mineral Railways' and spotted the photo of the Carrancarrow Kiln at Trenance just east of Burngullow. Measured from the National Library of Scotland website Carrancarrow is 250'. One of the Bradford Barton books has a photo by Brian Butt of the Cornish Riviera passing this spot.

 

At an appropriate point I'll play around with some card mock-ups to see how things look. I'm hoping that I'll be able to suggest that there is more beyond the building(s) that will actually be on the layout. 

[Only-Me]

Here’s my take on this in N gauge (Burngullow Junction)

quite a lot left to do... including the main dries building.. I’ll be following this thread with interest

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Only-Me

[Chamby]

6 hours ago, Only-Me said:

Here’s my take on this in N gauge (Burngullow Junction)

quite a lot left to do... including the main dries building.. I’ll be following this thread with interest

 

 

 

He he...  Bus-on-a-bridge!

[Stoker]

7 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

The Burngullow West kiln certainly looks interesting - to think of the number of times I've driven past that and didn't know exactly what was there, although the chimney is quite familiar of course. When I began thinking about my slight change of direction I bought a copy of Maurice Dart's book 'West Cornwall Mineral Railways' and spotted the photo of the Carrancarrow Kiln at Trenance just east of Burngullow. Measured from the National Library of Scotland website Carrancarrow is 250'. One of the Bradford Barton books has a photo by Brian Butt of the Cornish Riviera passing this spot.

 

At an appropriate point I'll play around with some card mock-ups to see how things look. I'm hoping that I'll be able to suggest that there is more beyond the building(s) that will actually be on the layout. 

There's always the option of doing half relief.

If you like when the time comes to figure out this aspect I could mock up a couple of 3D models for your consideration. I'd just need a basic idea of the trackplan and the available footprint for structures.

[TrevorP1]

On 01/02/2020 at 20:23, Stoker said:

There's always the option of doing half relief.

If you like when the time comes to figure out this aspect I could mock up a couple of 3D models for your consideration. I'd just need a basic idea of the trackplan and the available footprint for structures.

Thank you, that could be useful when the time comes but that might be some months away yet. However, it will be a big structure so I don’t want to build a big ‘nonsense’! Possibly I might play around with some card to see what feels right for the space and maybe that would be the time to take you up on your offer. I would hate for you to spend the time only for me to say “no, that won’t work in the area I have”.

 

Once again thank you. Most of my visitors probably will never have heard of china clay, let alone how it’s produced but I as far as I’m concerned it’s the same amount of work to build the structure correctly as it is to waste my effort on something totally wrong.

Edited February 7, 2020 by TrevorP1

[TrevorP1]

A photo update on progress from the last few days. Immediately below is where things stood on Tuesday. Baseboard tops are 9mm birch ply screwed to softwood bearers. The bearers were machined to size so that the ply lined up with the existing boards. These materials were supplied by Woodshop Direct, coincidentally of Falmouth, Cornwall. Perhaps not the cheapest way of doing things but very reliable and the timber was cut to the exact size I asked for. The lower - purely scenic - level i.e. where the spirit level is resting is just MDF pinned to the lower framework. My school woodwork teacher is probably spinning in his grave but the results are strong and flat.

 

 

Do my plans fit? It seems that way! This is the view today from the site of the Burngullow Lane overbridge by the junction. The farm road on the right will lead across the front of the layout at low level. The piece of foam board with the two red gauges on it is the site of a couple of cottages - similar but not the same as the real location. My inspiration for these are those often seen in period photos of Luxulyan station. Hopefully I have retained the long sweeping curve round to the right which I liked from Grampound Road. A small - in real life terms - china clay dry will be in the far left corner.

 

 

At the opposite end, the farm road disappears under the railway to whose knows where. The down refuge siding stops just being the building with the blue(ish) doors. On the bank above it will stand signals protecting the end of the up loop. There will be a culvert on the left for my cameo of the 'white river' which flowed into the sea near Par. I appreciate this is in totally the wrong  geographical area but it is feature I remember from my childhood so Rule 1 will apply. The farm road will cross this stream  on a low bridge. The existing fiddle yard joins just to the right of the red box.

 

 

Finally below a closer view. Buildings placed to give me an idea but there will be something similar. I can see a train on the bridge already   I'm going to let things be for a couple of days incase any problem comes to mind (decorating calls in any case) but the next step will be track laying....  starting just here.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by TrevorP1

[Stubby47]

Will you be using different ground levels for the buildings?

[Joseph_Pestell]

12 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

My school woodwork teacher is probably spinning in his grave but the results are strong and flat.

 

I often think of Mr Lewis ("Dai") when looking at my woodworking efforts. He would not be impressed, I fear. He had a bit of a reputation for being severe but was really one of the nicest people I have ever known, a real credit to the teaching profession.

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 01/02/2020 at 10:35, Only-Me said:

Here’s my take on this in N gauge (Burngullow Junction)

quite a lot left to do... including the main dries building.. I’ll be following this thread with interest

 

 

 

That looks superb. Let's have a full thread, please.

[TrevorP1]

27 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Will you be using different ground levels for the buildings?

Yes. Not by much but enough to make it look interesting. Those in the picture are what was to hand.

[Chamby]

It’s all looking very good, Trevor.   I especially like the dropped baseboard at the front of the sweeping curve, should give you a nice panoramic view of the layout from anywhere in the room.

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

A photo update on progress from the last few days. Immediately below is where things stood on Tuesday. Baseboard tops are 9mm birch ply screwed to softwood bearers. The bearers were machined to size so that the ply lined up with the existing boards. These materials were supplied by Woodshop Direct, coincidentally of Falmouth, Cornwall. Perhaps not the cheapest way of doing things but very reliable and the timber was cut to the exact size I asked for. The lower - purely scenic - level i.e. where the spirit level is resting is just MDF pinned to the lower framework. My school woodwork teacher is probably spinning in his grave but the results are strong and flat.

 

 

Do my plans fit? It seems that way! This is the view today from the site of the Burngullow Lane overbridge by the junction. The farm road on the right will lead across the front of the layout at low level. The piece of foam board with the two red gauges on it is the site of a couple of cottages - similar but not the same as the real location. My inspiration for these are those often seen in period photos of Luxulyan station. Hopefully I have retained the long sweeping curve round to the right which I liked from Grampound Road. A small - in real life terms - china clay dry will be in the far left corner.

 

 

At the opposite end, the farm road disappears under the railway to whose knows where. The down refuge siding stops just being the building with the blue(ish) doors. On the bank above it will stand signals protecting the end of the up loop. There will be a culvert on the left for my cameo of the 'white river' which flowed into the sea near Par. I appreciate this is in totally the wrong  geographical area but it is feature I remember from my childhood so Rule 1 will apply. The farm road will cross this stream  on a low bridge. The existing fiddle yard joins just to the right of the red box.

 

 

Finally below a closer view. Buildings placed to give me an idea but there will be something similar. I can see a train on the bridge already   I'm going to let things be for a couple of days incase any problem comes to mind (decorating calls in any case) but the next step will be track laying....  starting just here.

 

Very nice Trevor. Your mention of the White River has brought back memories and also made me think (dangerous...).

[TrevorP1]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very nice Trevor. Your mention of the White River has brought back memories and also made me think (dangerous...).

 

I've never modelled a river before let alone a white one. Fun ahead I think!

[Stoker]

Quote

the 'white river' which flowed into the sea near Par

I remember in my youth when they were still white! There were a couple, but "THE" white river, aka the River Vinnick, flowed down from Gover and Trenance, through St Austell valley and out to Pentewan. The other originated from the great underground canal of Great Carclaze/Baal china clay works, down through Sandy Hill, emerging onto the beach of Carlyon Bay, which is partly why there's a beach there.

Did you know the entire village of Par sits on the silt from tin streaming waste which used to flow down the Luxulyan valley? That's why it's so flat. At one point it was a wide bay estuary which was navigable as far as Pontsmill.

Sorry, I'm going off topic with Cornish pub quiz trivia.

Trevor I'm looking at your photos and thinking that garage/MOT station or whatever it is looks a bit close to that embankment to my eyes. Just a suggestion, but if it were me I'd move it forward a touch so that you can have an earth bank rather than one of those awful retaining walls that too many modellers resort to (in my humble opinion).

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

I've never modelled a river before let alone a white one. Fun ahead I think!

Nor have I. I think a white one might actually be easier than a clear one. We shall see.

[Chamby]

Another bit of ‘white river’ trivia... the beaches that they drained onto still have a very coarse texture owing to the large quantities of quartz crystals that were also carried down to the coast as a consequence of the clay extraction process.  They are nothing like the usual high quality sandy beach that you expect to find in Cornwall....  It was largely this waste that forced the closure of Pentewan harbour by silting it up.

[TrevorP1]

16 hours ago, Stoker said:

I remember in my youth when they were still white! There were a couple, but "THE" white river, aka the River Vinnick, flowed down from Gover and Trenance, through St Austell valley and out to Pentewan. The other originated from the great underground canal of Great Carclaze/Baal china clay works, down through Sandy Hill, emerging onto the beach of Carlyon Bay, which is partly why there's a beach there.

Did you know the entire village of Par sits on the silt from tin streaming waste which used to flow down the Luxulyan valley? That's why it's so flat. At one point it was a wide bay estuary which was navigable as far as Pontsmill.

 

3 hours ago, Chamby said:

Another bit of ‘white river’ trivia... the beaches that they drained onto still have a very coarse texture owing to the large quantities of quartz crystals that were also carried down to the coast as a consequence of the clay extraction process.  They are nothing like the usual high quality sandy beach that you expect to find in Cornwall....  It was largely this waste that forced the closure of Pentewan harbour by silting it up.

 

I have two separate recollections of the 'White River' from my childhood holidays. One, seeing St Austell Bay from the train (the Saturday version of the Cornishman or a relief I think) and how it was such a brilliant turquoise blue - I was of such an age I had no idea what why it was that colour and that strictly speaking it was the result of pollution.

 

The other, a few years later, was what I now know was the white River Vinnick seen by the side of the road near London Apprentice. I was aware enough to realise why by then but no more than that.

 

Somewhere I have seen a Peter Gray photo of a pannier running by the side of the river at Middleway, that too is white.

 

We've been to the beach at Par only once, not so long back, and it did strike me how coarse the sand was but I didn't connect with the reason.

 

16 hours ago, Stoker said:

Trevor I'm looking at your photos and thinking that garage/MOT station or whatever it is looks a bit close to that embankment to my eyes. Just a suggestion, but if it were me I'd move it forward a touch so that you can have an earth bank rather than one of those awful retaining walls that too many modellers resort to (in my humble opinion).

 

The buildings are what was to hand, just 'plonked' to see what things would look like. There will be no retaining wall!  

 

By the way, no problem with the 'pub quiz' stuff. All local knowledge is good as far as I'm concerned. 

[Rhysb]

Looking good, like the baseboard carpentry! 

[LBRJ]

I believe it was the building of Par Harbour, or specifically the breakwater there, that dramatically increased the silting up of the estuary.

It is still pretty marshy around Par station now and there are several drainage streams - one of which comes out at the station car park and another is culverted  and runs along the boundary between St Bz yard and the adjacent St Blazey Road.

 

Par station is on Eastcliffe Road, which gives an idea of where the original coast line was, and it flowed around the bottom of the hill Kilhallon sits on upwards St Blazey Bridge (where the level crossing is on the Newquay line).

One would assume the Bridge was the first crossing point of the Par river, on  the "new" road of Tywardreath Highway.

 

[Stoker]

Just now, LBRJ said:

I believe it was the building of Par Harbour, or specifically the breakwater there, that dramatically increased the silting up of the estuary.

It is still pretty marshy around Par station now and there are several drainage streams - one of which comes out at the station car park and another is culverted  and runs along the boundary between St Bz yard and the adjacent St Blazey Road.

 

Par station is on Eastcliffe Road, which gives an idea of where the original coast line was, and it flowed around the bottom of the hill Kilhallon sits on upwards St Blazey Bridge (where the level crossing is on the Newquay line).

One would assume the Bridge was the first crossing point of the Par river, on  the "new" road of Tywardreath Highway.

 

The silting of Par came about 100 years before Treffry's harbour. The village itself was originally confined to what we now consider West Par, and grew up around Par Consols mine. After the construction of the harbour it spread out on to the flats of what was being called Par Green, which then was just fields, the earliest development being a single row of south facing cottages on the north side of the road, one of which later becoming The Welcome Home Inn. Par station stood isolated to the north, and originally served mainly the much larger community of Tywardreath to which it was closer. 

You are correct that Blazey Bridge on the road to Tywardreath Highway was the original crossing point. This is an extremely old road, medieval or older. The small settlement of Pontsmill was once a fairly busy 16th century port, capable of receiving 80 ton vessels as late as 1720, by which time the river had been reduced from two navigable forks to one by streaming and mining activity in the valley.

[LBRJ]

I had (or still have I suppose) a few friends live Par Green*, and you do not have to dig down too far in their gardens to find some sand.

Also always assumed that the really old road was the lane that goes from the top of Penpillick Hill in a straight line down  to St Andrews Road near the duck pond (where there is maybe still a rather nice cast iron direction post).

There are also supposed to be some old mooring hooks built into the Church yard wall at St Blaise church** - and I suppose the wall around the yard could be a sign that once the waters lapped up that far.

 

*not really much of a drinker at The Welcome - mainly cos it never lived up to its name

** the only church I have been to a model railway exhibition in...Our own Captain Kernow had his Bleakhouse Road on show there if my memory is working correctly; maybe he will read this and correct me If I'm wrong....

 

Sorry for the extra ramble.....it must be the late night !

[St Enodoc]

20 hours ago, Chamby said:

the beaches that they drained onto still have a very coarse texture owing to the large quantities of quartz crystals that were also carried down to the coast as a consequence of the clay extraction process.  They are nothing like the usual high quality sandy beach that you expect to find in Cornwall

I remember that Crinnis (Carlyon Bay) was exactly like that. Not much fun to walk on in bare feet.