Burngullow Lane. - On the main line through Legend Land.

[Stoker]

 

Just now, St Enodoc said:

I remember that Crinnis (Carlyon Bay) was exactly like that. Not much fun to walk on in bare feet.

Pentewan, Par, and Crinnis beaches all have a considerable amount of mining and streaming waste on them. Partly clay waste, partly mining. And yes it is rather sharp. The river that emerges from the cave in the cliff at Crinnis/Carlyon Bay is the same river that flows through Sandy Hill, and was used as a discharge by the mines of that area, and then later the clay industry. A lesser known fact of the mid Cornwall mining area, is that before Pentewan, Par, and Charlestown were used for clay export, they shipped tin and copper concentrate, and the local rivers ran red. Much of the early silting problems had little to do with the fledgling clay industry and more to do with the huge metal mines of the area, such as Polgooth, Great Crinnis, and Fowey Consols.

[TrevorP1]

Interesting posts on Par. I've just been Googling around there. Always something new to learn!

[TrevorP1]

A while back we were talking about Bristol buses. Today I found this on the St Austell History Facebook page. As @St Enodoc (I think) observed the Corgi model has one less small window but as I don't have any bus enthusiast mates I think it'll do! (It would do in any case...  )

 

[Chamby]

6 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

A while back we were talking about Bristol buses. Today I found this on the St Austell History Facebook page. As @St Enodoc (I think) observed the Corgi model has one less small window but as I don't have any bus enthusiast mates I think it'll do! (It would do in any case...  )

 

 

Trevor, have a look at TMC (The Model Centre) - they have one in stock, by Original Omnibus.  Will probably need a repaint but otherwise looks like a good match, to my uneducated eye at least!

Edited February 10, 2020 by Chamby
tweak

[Stoker]

I don't know if having a year would help at this point, Trevor, but the photo with the bus at Burngullow shows Blackpool dryers under construction, which occurred in 1956.

[LBRJ]

4 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

Interesting posts on Par. I've just been Googling around there. Always something new to learn!

The whole of the Par/St. Blazey/Tywardreath area is a fascinating place specially for those with a bit of a bent towards Railways and Industrial history in general.

[St Enodoc]

23 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I remember that Crinnis (Carlyon Bay) was exactly like that. Not much fun to walk on in bare feet.

Just realised that the above was my 9000th post so I might have a glass of something tonight to celebrate. Unfortunately it's unlikely to e Proper Job but never mind.

[TrevorP1]

Today I managed to make a start on laying the exit from the fiddle yard at the up (St Austell) end of the fiddle yard.  A couple of points in place - not wired up yet - and some trackbed ready for plain track tomorrow. The general aim is to get the down line operational as soon as possible.

 

With regard to the discussion about Par, this section of map from the National Library of Scotland is interesting when compared to the modern 'overlay'. 

 

Par c1900

 

22 hours ago, Stoker said:

I don't know if having a year would help at this point, Trevor, but the photo with the bus at Burngullow shows Blackpool dryers under construction, which occurred in 1956.

 

My nominal 'dateline' is 1960 but I intend to run groups of trains from periods mainly going back into the 1950s. My Maroon Western will get a gallop now and then as well. 

 

I searched through my library and found the book with the Peter Gray colour photo featuring the bus and two panniers - Steam in Cornwall.  It is dated 13 July 1961 which was a Thursday. I've come to accept Peter's dates as accurate, especially so in this case as throughout the book there are a number of photos in the same area taken within a few days of this.

 

My first trip to Cornwall, as seven year old, was on either 22 or 29 of July 1961 depending on when the school term ended. Something tells me it was 29th although I don't know why as I can't possibly have remembered this, I have to think what day it is these days!

 

[LBRJ]

First time I saw that map was a large print on the wall in The Ship at Polmear  (along with many other interesting pictures)

 

I can only assume (with the education of chats to old chaps etc) that "the council" or whoever bulldozed the current dunes into place sometime in the 50s....  Par Sands caravan site occupies much of the area now, and despite hardly being the best ever made ground its not a total swamp on there, even when its Cornish rain thats falling.

[Stoker]

On 11/02/2020 at 13:54, TrevorP1 said:

I searched through my library and found the book with the Peter Gray colour photo featuring the bus and two panniers - Steam in Cornwall.  It is dated 13 July 1961 which was a Thursday. I've come to accept Peter's dates as accurate, especially so in this case as throughout the book there are a number of photos in the same area taken within a few days of this.

I took another look at the photo and realised that the linhay under construction is actually the Buell dryer linhay, and the rotary linhay appears complete. I had initially confused it with the construction of the rotary and it's linhays, which date to 1956. The Buell installation at Blackpool was of a pattern also constructed at Rocks, Drinnick, and Marsh Mills, all in the early 60s, which corresponds to Peter's date.

Here's a photo from 1962, the following year. Taken from Blackpool refinery on Burngullow common, looking down toward Blackpool. The rotary building is the one with steam rising on the left, containing 4 rotary units. The Buell building is the one with the steam rising on the right, containing 2 Buell units. The long row of linhays consisted of 13 bays and an attritor mill, with a total capacity of 20,800 tonnes. As you can see the silos have yet to be constructed:



This photo is the one I was thinking of, taken in 1956 during the construction of the rotary:



Blackpool was quite a complex. At it's height it was producing almost a third of the industry output, with the other two big producers being Rocks and Par.

Here's a look inside the rotary building, looking at No.3 and No.4 rotaries. No.1 and 2 were behind the cameraman. These big drums were about 7 feet in diameter and roughly 50 feet in length. The upside down "U" shaped things hanging on the frame over the conveyor belts at the bottom of the photo are horseshoe permanent magnets to catch stray metal. The filter press decks are on the left and right, these filtered the liquid slurry into a solid cake which could be dried. Each rotary unit had an output of approx 10 tons per hour, for a combined peak output of 40tph, enough to fill the entire linhay in 21 days.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Stoker

[Chamby]

Google Earth gives a fascinating overview of the Burngullow site and helps put Stoker's pictures above into context.  I won't publish the image here because I'm unsure of the copyright restrictions, but if you zoom in on the location in Google Earth, then click on the small [2001] tab in the bottom left of the image, you get a cracking arial view of the whole site as it was in 2001: the site is more complete and the track plan is much easier to discern than using the current image.

[TrevorP1]

Continuing thanks to those who have contributed their local knowledge to this thread. To me, at least, it brings life to the project and is valued. @Stoker I'm looking forward to your book. An insight into the 'nitty gritty' of the china clay industry has to be worthwhile.

 

Below is where things stand as of tonight. The 'head of nickel silver is advancing around the room. I'm pushing on with tracklaying and leaving things like point motors and the connection of dropper wires to be done in one hit. I'm hoping to get enough track down in the next few days to complete the down line and then move on to wiring up. However, next week is school half term so the good lady has a few days off. Without her support there would be no railway so she must take priority.

 

I pushed a rake of coaches around by hand today. Thankfully I've still managed to keep a nice sweeping curve, this has helped boost my confidence in the fact that I have done the right thing in starting afresh.

 

[brianusa]

On 01/02/2020 at 15:20, TrevorP1 said:

Most of my visitors probably will never have heard of china clay, let alone how it’s produced but I as far as I’m concerned it’s the same amount of work to build the structure correctly as it is to waste my effort on something totally wrong.

 

Sadly this is very common in any scale.  I have an extensive tinplate layout and hardly any visitors are interested.  Some however love it, take pictures and even chat a bit about it!

I find the discussion of this area most interesting as my maternal grandmother came from Polgooth so I am familiar with this part of Cornwall and other industrial parts of the county.

       Brian.

[TrevorP1]

21 hours ago, brianusa said:

 

Sadly this is very common in any scale.  I have an extensive tinplate layout and hardly any visitors are interested.  Some however love it, take pictures and even chat a bit about it!

I find the discussion of this area most interesting as my maternal grandmother came from Polgooth so I am familiar with this part of Cornwall and other industrial parts of the county.

       Brian.

 

We've had many a pleasant evening at the Polgooth Inn. Also, the Hewas Inn in Sticker is under new management these days and the new licensees are making a good go of it.

 

We've stayed at Crugwallins Farmhouse - Bed and Basket - many times now. Perhaps not the obvious holiday location but the owners specially cater for people with dogs. There is plenty of space and the accommodation for humans is first class, plus the Cornish mainline is at the bottom of garden! We also like it because it's not a holiday hot spot but not far from everything Cornwall has to offer. No connection just very satisfied customers.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

We've had many a pleasant evening at the Polgooth Inn. Also, the Hewas Inn in Sticker is under new management these days and the new licensees are making a good go of it.

 

We've stayed at Crugwallins Farmhouse - Bed and Basket - many times now. Perhaps not the obvious holiday location but the owners specially cater for people with dogs. There is plenty of space and the accommodation for humans is first class, plus the Cornish mainline is at the bottom of garden! We also like it because it's not a holiday hot spot but not far from everything Cornwall has to offer. No connection just very satisfied customers.

 

 

We used to stay at the Pier House Hotel when Charlestown was still a working harbour, before The Onedin Line and the like put it on the tourist map.

[Chamby]

We play ball with our dog on the beach at Portmellon Cove every morning...

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn’t resist that!

 

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

We play ball with our dog on the beach at Portmellon Cove every morning...

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn’t resist that!

 

 

You can go off people...   

[Stoker]

The Hewas Inn has always been a hidden gem in the area known for it's good food. Many clay area locals use it as the go-to "fancy restaurant".

Seeing the photos of your developing layout has given me the serious itch to draft some suggestions for fictional clay works. That back left corner in particular has good potential.

[LBRJ]

16 hours ago, Chamby said:

We play ball with our dog on the beach at Portmellon Cove every morning...

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn’t resist that!

 

 

I sometimes used to take an elongated morning constitutional up and around Ponts Mill

But as is the way with such things, I never really paid that much attention to the remains of the old works ( well OOU by then) 'cos they were "just there"; like all sorts of  things lurking in Bz yard ( or anywhere really) you sortta assumed they had been there forever, and would be there forever.

[Crisis Rail]

On 10/02/2020 at 07:18, Stoker said:

 

Pentewan, Par, and Crinnis beaches all have a considerable amount of mining and streaming waste on them. Partly clay waste, partly mining. And yes it is rather sharp. The river that emerges from the cave in the cliff at Crinnis/Carlyon Bay is the same river that flows through Sandy Hill, and was used as a discharge by the mines of that area, and then later the clay industry. A lesser known fact of the mid Cornwall mining area, is that before Pentewan, Par, and Charlestown were used for clay export, they shipped tin and copper concentrate, and the local rivers ran red. Much of the early silting problems had little to do with the fledgling clay industry and more to do with the huge metal mines of the area, such as Polgooth, Great Crinnis, and Fowey Consols.

 

We used to pass Pentewan when stopping at Gorran Haven on holiday years back.

Eventually we visited and I was surprised how much of the old industry was evident.

Looking at the OS Maps I cannot see any evidence of the trackbed through the Kings Wood to St Austell.

 

Ian

 

[TrevorP1]

Three or four years back I spent a long afternoon walking from the Ponts Mill area up to the Treffery Viaduct. I saw the old buildings but much to my regret didn’t hang around as I particularly wanted to get up to the viaduct and not having been there before wasn’t sure what was involved.

 

My first visit to Pentewan was at the end on the summer in 1976. I remember the date distinctly because I went camping with a mate on the very day that the ‘long hot summer’ finally ended with a torrential downpour. We couldn’t get the tent up at Pentewan because of the wind and ended up somewhere inland covered in mud with some very bent tent poles. That put me off camping for life!  Anyway, it was a long time ago but I seem to remember there being evidence of the old railway. 

 

On 1/76 scale Cornwall the ‘back corner’ is indeed when the clay works will be sited. When the time comes I’m minded to build the whole area on a separate base that can be positioned when complete. This should then be removable for maintenance/cleaning as needed. I don’t imagine I will use it for more than a set piece but that little Ruston that Hornby do would look nice with the conflat replaced by a china clay wagon...

[Stubby47]

The Rustons work perfectly fine without a wagon, on electrofrog points.

[Chamby]

Did ECC use Ruston's, or is Rule 1 in play here?   

 

There's a nice picture of a Hornby-esque 4-wheel Sentinel shunter being used by ECC at Rocks Works, Goonbarrow Junction in John Vaughan's excellent tome An Illustrated History of West Country China Clay Trains.  The photo is dated 1983, but I have no idea for how long they were used there, presumably since the sixties.  The shunter is seriously caked in clay - a nice weathering challenge.

 

There's also a dinky little Peckett 0-4-0 saddle tank at Wheal Martin museum, named Lee Moor No.1.  It had a sister Lee Moor No.2, they were operational between 1899 and 1946, both to be later restored by ECC as museum exhibits.  They were operated by ECC, but I don't think they were used for St Austell clay: The Lee Moor Tramway was the wrong side of the Tamar.  Otherwise Pannier Tanks and then 08's seem to have been the operational staples in Cornwall after nationalisation.  Plus the Beattie well tanks at Wenford.

 

So plenty of shunter options, and most available RTR!

[TrevorP1]

I seem to recall that the Lee Moor was a weird gauge? 4' 6"? Goodness knows why that was.

 

No more than an idle thought re the Ruston. But as you suggest I think the Sentinel would be more in keeping. There's enough call on the modelling budget in terms of cash and time as it is!  Sooner or later I'm going to have to build a couple of dozen or more china clay wagons from Ratio and Parkside kits. One of each are in the to do pile. I just can't come to terms with the Bachmann one and I think it's too expensive for what it is. Never mind that for now though, I've too many 'indoors' projects on the go as it is!

 

 

[Stubby47]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

Did ECC use Ruston's, or is Rule 1 in play here?  

 

On T-CATS it's definitely Rule 1.