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22 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

......

I am happy, no in love with(!) the area so I couldn't move far and eventually settled on Burngullow junction - or at least an impression of. I hope to incorporate enough of the real location for folk to say "Oh, that's Burngullow isn't it". Except that it won't be. I'll put a plan up soon - dreckley? - but the the pointwork at the junction will be there with, along with a spur heading off to Drinnick Mill. There will be sidings on both sides of the line as per the real location but there will be no room for the huge clay dries. However there should be scope for a Linhay about 6/700mm long x about 150mm. Of course the whole thing will be on curve - the real Burngullow is almost straight. With this scheme trains can come and go to Drinnick Mill (involving reversing across both main lines as per the real thing) and also down freights can be held to let others pass.

 

80% of the above will be on a low embankment so that the trains are in full view and also dining the scope for a cottage and farm buildings alongside but slightly below the line.

 

The dismantling has been done and new materials have begun to arrive. Positive things should happen next week.

 

Family duties call now but I'll update regularly.

 

Burngullow has changed a lot over the years... do you have a particular date in mind?  The station closed in 1931, if I recall correctly.

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

Burngullow has changed a lot over the years... do you have a particular date in mind?  The station closed in 1931, if I recall correctly.

 

As before,1960 give or take a year but Rule 1 will prevail because I would like to run a Brittania, a Star or even a D1000 on suitable trains. Ultimately, I'd like to have a group of trains to represent different periods from say, 1950 up to about 1965.

 

56 minutes ago, checkrail said:

I greatly admire those who model a real location as accurately as possible but I lean towards the view that aesthetics trumps fidelity to a specific location every time.  For me it's all about seeing the trains, and if geography, landscape, trees, buildings etc. get in the way then 'reality' has to be changed!  Best wishes for the revised layout - look forward to seeing more pics as it progresses.

 

Agreed. This is something I have taken on board over the last few months. I have seen a couple of beautiful layouts at shows recently where a lot of 'the action' was hidden in a cutting and folk could see clearly only about 4 - 5 feet.

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This pretty much where things stand at the moment. The fiddle yard and lifting section are completely intact. I have also salvaged for re-use the trees which Carol made for the layout and all bar one of the Peco Bullhead points. The points have had the modification to the crossing recommended by @Chamby in the Peco thread. I will need one of the new single slips which on inspection of the samples at Warley seem to have the insulated section in front of the nose lengthened to deal with the shorting problem.

 

80% of the running lines will be on an embankment raised above the L girders of the main framework by about 60mm.  Below and in front will be a track leading to cottages and at the far end a few farm buildings. At the right hand end of the picture trains will come 'on stage' from behind the farm buildings and trees to run into the scene over a small bridge. I also hope to create a cameo of the famous 'white river' near St Austell. Just by the spirit level in the photo  the framework will be extended out slightly to incorporate as large a sweeping curve as I can. The Linhay will be in the far corner and I intend this to be pretty much a 'set piece' about 6-700mm long. I have a scale plan of the project which I'll put in a future post.

 

IMG_6055.jpeg.27c6455c3ab7fe1a9533fcf1b26baa3f.jpeg

 

This scene is my inspiration. The footpath on the right will be wider - as it is today - but below the line. In reality this is accessed from Burngullow Lane, hence my name for the project. The railway line will obviously curve to the right in my 'scene' and the clay works will be much smaller - those at Burngullow were among, if not the, largest in the area. I don't think there will be room for the cottages on the left, I'll see how it looks when the track and makings of the embankment are in place. The area by the pannier tank is the weighbridge.  This is the obvious place for the signal box in my version but we'll see.

 

photo.jpeg.c56aafd43542d15816b421f1ecb8c4be.jpeg

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Don't forget the phone box :)

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7 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Don't forget the phone box :)

 

You've got me on that one...?  (or perhaps I shouldn't ask!)  ;) 

 

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1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Don't forget the phone box :)

 

55 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

You've got me on that one...?  (or perhaps I shouldn't ask!)  ;) 

 

 

My apologies - the phone box is at Goonbarrow, not Burngullow.

Edited by Stubby47
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1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

 

 

My apologies - the phone box is at Goonbarrow, not Burngullow.


:rolleyes: :lol:

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4 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

The Linhay will be in the far corner and I intend this to be pretty much a 'set piece' about 6-700mm long.

Railway Modeller January 1965 had a good article on china-clay including some sketch drawings of a "typical" kiln of about that size. It's what I used as the basis for mine.

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Oh I like the slight change in direction here, Burngullow is one of those fascinating sort of places....

 

apropos of nothing at all I seem to recall I was the guard on the last down train over the single line there (which is now a scary long time ago!)

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As promised, a plan of the new project. Please excuse the scrappy copy, it's just a phone snap of my 'working plan' - having spent most of the day stripping wallpaper I'm too lazy to fire up the scanner!

 

Left to right. The blue area is the existing lifting flap with the end of the Drinnick Mill branch at far left. Where it is shown as a buffer stop I intend to have a cassette system for the china clay trains. I cannot extend this into the fiddle yard proper as there are two point motors in the way. Long term if the cassette idea is not practical I'll move the point motors but there is enough to do at the moment. The green line denotes the scenic area so the main lines appear under a bridge from the Truro direction and meet the branch emerging from a cutting at the junction - this will be the area that is most like the 'real' Burngullow as in the photo above.

 

I have put a note on the plan for a disused station. As far as this goes I'll see what things look like. It may be a feature too far or maybe it will disguise the curve. We'll see.

 

From the girder bridge carrying the real Burngullow Lane the railway is on a low embankment with a farm track continuing along the lower level. The second image is a Google photo of the real location and I will follow this as much as possible. From here I think it is self explanatory and pretty much fiction except for the general layout of the main lines and down refuge siding. The real location had an up refuge siding, known I believe as Crugwallins Siding, west of the old derelict station. (Confusingly there was a Crugwallins siding on the  branch as well.). The small pencil Xs mark where the signal will be and are a reminder to me to keep the area clear of supporting woodwork!

 

As far as the clay dries go they obviously cannot be as large as even a small 'real' dry  but they will be large enough to make a nice set piece I think. The letters are nothing to do with the railway as such just part of my baseboard cutting list. 

 

As usual, quart in a pint pot. Oh for a 40 foot shed but then I'd want to do Whiteball and there still wouldn't be enough room! :) 

 

IMG_6074.jpeg.2b7b4ef2f93a1680776c78460cd2e438.jpeg

 

1495479354_Screenshot2020-01-07at13_41_51.jpeg.06d75d6b3dbe5d00d63bb6fa5acd84fb.jpeg

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6 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

As promised, a plan of the new project. Please excuse the scrappy copy, it's just a phone snap of my 'working plan' - having spent most of the day stripping wallpaper I'm too lazy to fire up the scanner!

 

Left to right. The blue area is the existing lifting flap with the end of the Drinnick Mill branch at far left. Where it is shown as a buffer stop I intend to have a cassette system for the china clay trains. I cannot extend this into the fiddle yard proper as there are two point motors in the way. Long term if the cassette idea is not practical I'll move the point motors but there is enough to do at the moment. The green line denotes the scenic area so the main lines appear under a bridge from the Truro direction and meet the branch emerging from a cutting at the junction - this will be the area that is most like the 'real' Burngullow as in the photo above.

 

I have put a note on the plan for a disused station. As far as this goes I'll see what things look like. It may be a feature too far or maybe it will disguise the curve. We'll see.

 

From the girder bridge carrying the real Burngullow Lane the railway is on a low embankment with a farm track continuing along the lower level. The second image is a Google photo of the real location and I will follow this as much as possible. From here I think it is self explanatory and pretty much fiction except for the general layout of the main lines and down refuge siding. The real location had an up refuge siding, known I believe as Crugwallins Siding, west of the old derelict station. (Confusingly there was a Crugwallins siding on the  branch as well.). The small pencil Xs mark where the signal will be and are a reminder to me to keep the area clear of supporting woodwork!

 

As far as the clay dries go they obviously cannot be as large as even a small 'real' dry  but they will be large enough to make a nice set piece I think. The letters are nothing to do with the railway as such just part of my baseboard cutting list. 

 

As usual, quart in a pint pot. Oh for a 40 foot shed but then I'd want to do Whiteball and there still wouldn't be enough room! :) 

 

IMG_6074.jpeg.2b7b4ef2f93a1680776c78460cd2e438.jpeg

 

1495479354_Screenshot2020-01-07at13_41_51.jpeg.06d75d6b3dbe5d00d63bb6fa5acd84fb.jpeg

Looks good Trevor.

 

A few comments if I may:

 

- why not make the branch rise so that by the time it gets to the lifting flap it would be high enough to clear the point motors? The stub looks too short to be of real value at the moment. That woudl also let you extend the scenic length of the branch before it dives behind the backscene.

 

- I expect you've thought of this already but you could use the crossover on the lifting flap to simulate the trailing crossover at the Down end of the complex if you needed to run round anything.

 

- station or no station, you simply must include the former Cornwall Railway signal box opposite the working one! In fact I think you should include a representation of the disused platforms somehow as they are so characteristic!

 

- there's a lovely photo in one of the Ian Allan books of a single deck Western National bus climbing the slope next to the cottages. That woudl look nice on the model.

 

 

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12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Looks good Trevor.

 

A few comments if I may:

 

- why not make the branch rise so that by the time it gets to the lifting flap it would be high enough to clear the point motors? The stub looks too short to be of real value at the moment. That woudl also let you extend the scenic length of the branch before it dives behind the backscene.

 

- I expect you've thought of this already but you could use the crossover on the lifting flap to simulate the trailing crossover at the Down end of the complex if you needed to run round anything.

 

- station or no station, you simply must include the former Cornwall Railway signal box opposite the working one! In fact I think you should include a representation of the disused platforms somehow as they are so characteristic!

 

- there's a lovely photo in one of the Ian Allan books of a single deck Western National bus climbing the slope next to the cottages. That woudl look nice on the model.

 

 


Agreed about the branch line stub John. It is a little longer than shown on the plan but not much. Interesting idea about making it climb over the point motors - anything that‘s likely to run there would have no trouble with the gradient even on that curve. 
 

As to the signalbox, I see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure that in the context of my ‘impression’ - for that is what it is - that it would look right. It would also face away from the viewer thereby wasting  all the work on the interior. That’s one for when the track is down I think and a play around with a card mock-up.

 

I know the bus photo! An iconic view. If at all possible I will include that road (which led into the clay works I presume) plus, if there’s room, the cottages in half relief but I don’t want to crowd things. I think the bus has to appear somewhere though - but not on the bridge ;) 

 

The bus leads me to another idea. In ‘my’ reality Burngullow East box might still be there so that I can run an auto train to serve the villages as far as St Dennis. That would give an excuse for a Laira 64xx to be outstationed at St Blazey... It would involve the up loop being bi-directional but I’m not sure how that would work with 1950s practice even though the (imaginary) signalling and infrastructure would be off stage. Of course the weighbridge would have to go if I did this.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

This photo of the bus ?

 

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41575.0

 

Some more photos (that you've probably seen) here, at the end of the page.


That’s the one! By Peter Gray from his Steam in Cornwall album where he gives information on bus. I can look it up if anyone is interested. With luck I might be able to create a cameo of that scene, especially with the Model Rail 16xx due this year.

 

Apparently Peter Gray rode an LE Velocette on his photography trips. That would be worth creating and parking up somewhere. 

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I agree with St Enodoc about the stub siding on the lifting flap, that could be problematic if stuff is parked there for any length of time.  Another alternative could be to run the line back into the main behind the backscene, rejoining where it changes colour from black to red.  Would also allow you to run Drinnick bound trains straight into the storage roads.  OR, given that the real thing climbs quite sharply away from the main line, why not build a flyover towards the cassette sidings...  :O

 

If you need any current local pics, info or whatever, Trevor, just ask.  My home is a 15 minute drive from Burngullow, and I pass it regularly...

 

Phil

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1 minute ago, Chamby said:

 

If you need any current local pics, info or whatever, Trevor, just ask.  My home is a 15 minute drive from Burngullow, and I pass it regularly...

 

Phil

 

Yes, but can you do pics from yesteryear as well? 

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2 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Yes, but can you do pics from yesteryear as well? 

 

Yes, if I send the pics a day later.  Today is tomorrow's yesterday.

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3 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:


That’s the one! By Peter Gray from his Steam in Cornwall album where he gives information on bus. I can look it up if anyone is interested. With luck I might be able to create a cameo of that scene, especially with the Model Rail 16xx due this year.

 

 

A lovely Peter Gray photo indeed and the bus is a Western National No,66A to Carslake. A Bristol 1942 L5G chassis with a 1955 Eastern Coachworks body.

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2 hours ago, Chamby said:

I agree with St Enodoc about the stub siding on the lifting flap, that could be problematic if stuff is parked there for any length of time.  Another alternative could be to run the line back into the main behind the backscene, rejoining where it changes colour from black to red.  Would also allow you to run Drinnick bound trains straight into the storage roads.  OR, given that the real thing climbs quite sharply away from the main line, why not build a flyover towards the cassette sidings...  :O

 

If you need any current local pics, info or whatever, Trevor, just ask.  My home is a 15 minute drive from Burngullow, and I pass it regularly...

 

Phil

 

Thanks Phil. I'll be in the area myself later in the year and I'll probably take the chance to run a tape measure over both  bridges. It should provide the locals with some amusement! Blooming emmets in the way again!

 

I'm hoping I'll have the baseboard tops later in the week, or at the latest next week, then I can get on. The boards I 'lost' were second-hand stuff and the new material is coming from the same supplier as most of the other timber - ironically in Falmouth. Not necessarily the cheapest way of doing it but certainly less work and most will be cut to the sizes I need leaving just the curves to mark out and cut with the jigsaw. I purchased a metre long draughtsman's flexicurve to help mark this out accurately.

 

I looked at bringing the 'Drinnick line' back on to the main line behind the scenes but there is a lifting flap hinge in the way and I'm loathe to disturb this as it is working perfectly. Also that would take up room in the fiddle yard etc. So I'm left with three thoughts:

 

  • A high level cassette area on the lifting flap - this will work but as has been suggested not the most convenient. However branch trains could be held on the main board off-scene and could be hidden by a low backscene.
  • Go straight across the lifting flap at 'high' level to a small high level fiddle yard. This idea is growing on me.
  • Phil's curved flyover idea. Mad, I love it but maybe a step to far... I'll look at it because it's in my mind now but the fiddle yard is under several layers of dust protection at the moment.

All three require the branch to climb so I can build this in when I start construction. The height needed about is  2 inches but the trains will be relatively light and my 57xx will pull a house down in any case. As long as the Model Rail 16xx is as strong there will be no problem.

 

 

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1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 A Bristol 1942 L5G chassis with a 1955 Eastern Coachworks body.

 

The search is on for a 4mm scale version. :) 

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13 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

This photo of the bus ?

 

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41575.0

 

Some more photos (that you've probably seen) here, at the end of the page.

Yes, that's the one I had in mind.

 

On the CRS page, the first photo under the heading "Burngullow Main Line" shows what I was talking about regarding the new and old signal boxes.

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8 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

As long as the Model Rail 16xx is as strong there will be no problem.

There's another well-known photo of a pair of 16xx at Carpella.

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7 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

You probably won't get the perfect match but something with the flavour of it here http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/efe/operators/westnatidx.html

I don't think EFE did the Bristol/ECW L. I recall a now-deceased friend telling me that WN didn't have many and they were a different length from most others. Notwithstanding, I've got a Corgi version which I will relivery to WN when I get a round tuit.

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On 26/01/2020 at 11:38, TrevorP1 said:

As far as the clay dries go they obviously cannot be as large as even a small 'real' dry  but they will be large enough to make a nice set piece I think. The letters are nothing to do with the railway as such just part of my baseboard cutting list.


You say that, but 700mm scales out to 175', there were several bulk store type linhays (fed by conveyor belt) from your chosen period that were around that size or smaller.

29497450_1941373582600837_3680213014717399040_o.jpg.3819c13ca6e07e754c3a690c18c04eed.jpg

(Above) Kernick Buell bulk store, built 1951, fed by the first oil fired Buell type dryer built by the industry, it's square concrete stack visible in the background: 100' x 80' with a 13' awning covering 3' deep loading edge and 10' over track, later extended with an additional 80' x 60' section. Loading edge height 7ft above railhead.

IMG_9160.JPG.0c94e8a9e699e7c7f00eec3fe26b7842.JPG

(Above) Rockhill bulk store and baghouse, built 1939 and the first of it's kind to be built in Cornwall, the taller structure on the right, fed by conveyor bridge from the small rotary drying plant in the buildings behind the old linhay on the left. Served by the Goonbarrow branch and the last source of traffic from there in 1978. 100' x 60' with a 13' awning covering 3' deep loading edge and 10' over track. Loading edge height 4ft above railhead (vans).

5367937_orig.jpg.f4ebf43b4c12c9e73fd802ea94f88d5d.jpg

(Above) Drinnick No.5 bulk store, built 1951, fed by the rotary dryer housed in the building on the right. 175' x 95' with a 13' awning covering 3' deep loading edge and 10' over track. Loading edge 6ft6in above railhead.

Edited by Stoker
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