Jump to content

TrevorP1

Grampound Road. Salad Days on the Cornish Main Line

Recommended Posts

Trevor,

 

great start, I'm trying to follow your Topic but a system bug is preventing me "following" (Andy Y pls note). this post might be the way round it.

 

Colin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trevor,

 

great start, I'm trying to follow your Topic but a system bug is preventing me "following" (Andy Y pls note). this post might be the way round it.

 

Colin

 

Thank you Colin. Yes, RMW is very slow today. Doesn't help either that our local internet makes a geriatric snail look fast!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I'd be better posting this in 'prototype questions' but I'd like to keep any information in one place, so here goes.

 

I'm working on a sequence for the layout and, like many before me, have decided on a summer Friday. There is plenty on information about and 'Operation Cornwall' from Xpress Publishing is invaluable. Generally I'm keeping to the typical and run of the mill but something I'd like to do is the 12:05 Paddington ECS restaurant cars, or should I say restaurant car by the time it passed through Grampound Road.

 

The vehicle in question was a Kitchen 1st for the Saturday 09:20 St Ives - Paddington. There is a 1959 photo of the 09:20 St Ives on p74 in 'Steam in Cornwall. The restaurant car is very small in the photo but under a magnifier there seems to be a shadow under the end doors to indicate it might be H43 Riviera stock. My knowledge of GW coach types is limited (but improving!) so I may be wrong on this. Any ideas out there?

 

If I can identify the vehicle it might make a winter coach building project along with the H39 & 40 for the Riviera itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I'd be better posting this in 'prototype questions' but I'd like to keep any information in one place, so here goes.

 

I'm working on a sequence for the layout and, like many before me, have decided on a summer Friday. There is plenty on information about and 'Operation Cornwall' from Xpress Publishing is invaluable. Generally I'm keeping to the typical and run of the mill but something I'd like to do is the 12:05 Paddington ECS restaurant cars, or should I say restaurant car by the time it passed through Grampound Road.

 

The vehicle in question was a Kitchen 1st for the Saturday 09:20 St Ives - Paddington. There is a 1959 photo of the 09:20 St Ives on p74 in 'Steam in Cornwall. The restaurant car is very small in the photo but under a magnifier there seems to be a shadow under the end doors to indicate it might be H43 Riviera stock. My knowledge of GW coach types is limited (but improving!) so I may be wrong on this. Any ideas out there?

 

If I can identify the vehicle it might make a winter coach building project along with the H39 & 40 for the Riviera itself.

Trevor, I can't answer your direct question but I have a copy of the 1961 summer working timetable that I can share information from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, thank you. I'm guessing that information in the working timetable would be similar to that in 'Operation Cornwall' but I'd appreciate a 'look up' for either the 12:05 FO Paddington - Truro ECS or 09:20 SO St Ives - Paddington. Something that becomes apparent from studying books like this is how so much coaching stock stood idle during the week in order that these trains ran at weekends.

 

You are probably aware but for the record there's a 1957 freight timetable here at the bottom of the page: 

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=572

 

Some might say it's early days worrying about which trains to run but my hope is that it will stop me wasting time and money on items I don't need. Besides, the research is interesting and a great insight into the social history of the times.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, thank you. I'm guessing that information in the working timetable would be similar to that in 'Operation Cornwall' but I'd appreciate a 'look up' for either the 12:05 FO Paddington - Truro ECS or 09:20 SO St Ives - Paddington. Something that becomes apparent from studying books like this is how so much coaching stock stood idle during the week in order that these trains ran at weekends.

 

You are probably aware but for the record there's a 1957 freight timetable here at the bottom of the page: 

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=572

 

Some might say it's early days worrying about which trains to run but my hope is that it will stop me wasting time and money on items I don't need. Besides, the research is interesting and a great insight into the social history of the times.

Yes, I also find that research is fun and also focuses the mind on what I should be doing/buying - as long as it doesn't take over to the extent that I don't actually do anything!

 

When I'm back home at the weekend I'll copy the relevant pages form the WTT for you and attach them to a PM. In the meantime, as well as the Michael Clemens site, I'm sure you're aware of the plethora of carriage workings, etc. published by Robert Carroll on the BR Coaching Stock forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I also find that research is fun and also focuses the mind on what I should be doing/buying - as long as it doesn't take over to the extent that I don't actually do anything!

 

When I'm back home at the weekend I'll copy the relevant pages form the WTT for you and attach them to a PM. In the meantime, as well as the Michael Clemens site, I'm sure you're aware of the plethora of carriage workings, etc. published by Robert Carroll on the BR Coaching Stock forum.

 

 

Thank you John, much appreciated. Funnily enough I joined the BR coaching stock forum yesterday - what a magnificent labour of love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a final check on sizes for my timber order today. I've decided to go with an L girder open framework. Thus will also give me the chance to introduce the characteristic gradients at each end of the station. I'm thinking of getting a full circuit of plain track down quite early - even if it's only pinned down - so that the effect of the gradient on the trains can be checked before the point of no return.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a final check on sizes for my timber order today. I've decided to go with an L girder open framework. Thus will also give me the chance to introduce the characteristic gradients at each end of the station. I'm thinking of getting a full circuit of plain track down quite early - even if it's only pinned down - so that the effect of the gradient on the trains can be checked before the point of no return.

in the space you have available, unless you are building good and heavy inbuilt locos, I would recommend keeping the trackbed level throughout. Most RTR locos will struggle on any gradients, especially on curved track. Some struggle even on level track with a reasonable load behind them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in the space you have available, unless you are building good and heavy inbuilt locos, I would recommend keeping the trackbed level throughout. Most RTR locos will struggle on any gradients, especially on curved track. Some struggle even on level track with a reasonable load behind them.

kitbuilt Not inbuilt. Stupid auto correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in the space you have available, unless you are building good and heavy inbuilt locos, I would recommend keeping the trackbed level throughout. Most RTR locos will struggle on any gradients, especially on curved track. Some struggle even on level track with a reasonable load behind them.

 

 

I intend to give good consideration to all matters concerning the gradient. It will only be slight but was a key visual feature at the real Grampound Road. Most of heaviest trains will be diesel hauled as per prototype by 1960 so that should help as RTR diesels are quite heavy.

 

I do take your point though and as I said there will be thorough testing before the point of no return. One of the advantages of L girder is that it can be altered without too much drama. If the worst comes to the worst I may opt for putting a gradient into the sidings to achieve the same visual effect. There will be no commitment to the gradient until I know the trains can run properly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I intend to give good consideration to all matters concerning the gradient. It will only be slight but was a key visual feature at the real Grampound Road. Most of heaviest trains will be diesel hauled as per prototype by 1960 so that should help as RTR diesels are quite heavy.

 

I do take your point though and as I said there will be thorough testing before the point of no return. One of the advantages of L girder is that it can be altered without too much drama. If the worst comes to the worst I may opt for putting a gradient into the sidings to achieve the same visual effect. There will be no commitment to the gradient until I know the trains can run properly.

as an indication, I have a line that rises just over 2" mainly straight with a very slight curve the rise is over nearly 8'. Most RTR steam struggle with more than 3 or 4 coaches. Fortunately, most of my locos are built from kits or scratchbuilds so the rtr will be retired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as an indication, I have a line that rises just over 2" mainly straight with a very slight curve the rise is over nearly 8'. Most RTR steam struggle with more than 3 or 4 coaches. Fortunately, most of my locos are built from kits or scratchbuilds so the rtr will be retired.

 

 

That's useful information, thank you. Rudimentary maths makes that about 1 in 50.

 

The real gradients at Grampound Road were 1 in 97/115 in the down direction and 1 in 67 up. I am hoping to give just an impression, say about 1in 100 but of course as you say I have a curve to contend with. Nothing is set in stone and I intend to test, test and test again and there is also the option of making the up refuge and the down yard rise very slightly to help with the effect.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's useful information, thank you. Rudimentary maths makes that about 1 in 50.

 

The real gradients at Grampound Road were 1 in 97/115 in the down direction and 1 in 67 up. I am hoping to give just an impression, say about 1in 100 but of course as you say I have a curve to contend with. Nothing is set in stone and I intend to test, test and test again and there is also the option of making the up refuge and the down yard rise very slightly to help with the effect.

The impression is the thing. About 1 in 100 for four or five feet on a 3 ft radius curve shouldn't be too taxing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you John, much appreciated. Funnily enough I joined the BR coaching stock forum yesterday - what a magnificent labour of love.

PM with attachments sent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just random progress to report of late. We've had a houseful (it's seemed!) of builders for the last 10 days and concentration on anything for more than 10 minutes has been impossible. However...

 

A visit to Warley on the Sunday produced some transfers to finish off the Airfix/Parkside meat van courtesy of H & A models. I've got to admit the crimson seems rather gaudy but it will eventually be toned down by weathering. I recently picked up a copy of 'Great Western Steam in Cornwall' and lo and behold there is a photo of such a van behind a 'County' at Truro so I feel quite happy having taken the trouble.

 

post-14258-0-65016500-1544115277_thumb.jpeg

 

Other news... expecting nothing, I had the brainwave (!) of typing Grampound Road into the Network Rail media store website. My eyes nearly popped out of their sockets when I saw a scale drawing of the Cornwall Railway goods shed which served the station all it's working life. Duly purchased, it will be boon when the time comes and is good enough to be framed.

 

Finally, a couple of weeks ago I was wondering about the 1st Class kitchen car worked down on Fridays for the Saturday St. Ives - Paddington. A couple of days ago in a moment of escape from the builders I was thumbing through 'Summer Saturday in the West'. A 1957 shot of this train features in one of the photos and clearly shows a Centenary type vehicle third from the engine. I think it may be a kitchen car... Not clear evidence and three years earlier than my 'nominal' time but something to at least bear in mind.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Other news... expecting nothing, I had the brainwave (!) of typing Grampound Road into the Network Rail media store website. My eyes nearly popped out of their sockets when I saw a scale drawing of the Cornwall Railway goods shed which served the station all it's working life. Duly purchased, it will be boon when the time comes and is good enough to be framed.

May I ask what size and format you had it printed in?

 

I want to purchase drawings of another goods shed from there but there are so many different options I'd like to get some idea of the best way to have it done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick. I purchased an A2 print with the ‘original colouring’ (or whatever the exact words were). Everything is quite legible at that size. Must agree there are a bewildering number of options but the delivery was very quick, less than 48 hours in my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Trevor

 

It's definitely an excellent resource. Following my enquiry they found five drawings for the goods shed I'm after. Not bad, considering the building hasn't existed for about forty years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two good occurrences recently. We had an electrician working with the builders here last week and, weather permitting, he is booked in to do the electrics for the railway room on January 10th. Just as positive, yesterday afternoon a truck pulled up outside with a pallet load of neatly cut, dead straight, baseboard materials. That means that in a month from today I could be screwing baseboards together.  :danced:

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little to report recently as our Christmas/New Year activities have been spread over a wider period with two family members having to work over Christmas itself - one in the RAF and the other a nurse. However, I can report that digging a cable trench is a good way of keeping some of the seasonal calories from doing bad things! It reminded me of a model engineer friend who when asked what was the hardest part of building his 5" gauge pannier tank replied, "building the workshop!"

 

The electrician should be here next Thursday. I cannot wait!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some unexpected progress today. I went outside and finished the last six feet or so of the cable trench. Yesterday was penetratingly bitter but it's been an unseasonably warm one today, almost spring like. Too good to waste I thought so, as a trial I built up the first of the baseboard supports. 18mm ply for the uprights and 9mm for the diagonals. The 'production model' will have more screws and a block between the diagonals but it's turned out as planned. When the electrician has done his stuff I can crack on. I put it in a corner out of the way and realised I'd put it under a picture of the Royal Albert Bridge - seemed somehow appropriate!

 

post-14258-0-38685100-1546791407_thumb.jpeg

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Some unexpected progress today. I went outside and finished the last six feet or so of the cable trench. Yesterday was penetratingly bitter but it's been an unseasonably warm one today, almost spring like. Too good to waste I thought so, as a trial I built up the first of the baseboard supports. 18mm ply for the uprights and 9mm for the diagonals. The 'production model' will have more screws and a block between the diagonals but it's turned out as planned. When the electrician has done his stuff I can crack on. I put it in a corner out of the way and realised I'd put it under a picture of the Royal Albert Bridge - seemed somehow appropriate!

 

attachicon.giffullsizeoutput_1de4.jpeg

I used a similar design for my legs Trevor, although in softwood not ply. I also fixed a block between the diagonals where they cross to improve the triangulation which made a huge difference to the rigidity.

Edited by St Enodoc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just back in from doing exactly that John plus putting on the horizontal piece at the top. Solid as rock! The L girders will screw directly to the sides at the top although I am a little worried about screwing into what is effectively end grain. I'll use glue as well here for safety, plus I have some angle brackets if I'm still concerned.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The electrician has done his stuff - no more excuses now!

 

This is today's progress. Five leg assemblies, a start on the L girders and a trial assembly to see how things would work out. I assembled the legs using the workmate as a fixture and this turned out drama - free. The clamps came from our local Aldi supermarket. They are on offer at £3.99 for a pack of two large and two small. They wouldn't stand up to professional use but are quite adequate for jobs like this and made the whole exercise a lot easier.

 

post-14258-0-00411300-1547235170_thumb.jpeg

 

post-14258-0-62464600-1547235126_thumb.jpeg

 

Here is the trial assembly. The L girders are birch ply and the rest standard hardwood ply. The L girders are fabricated from lengths 1210mm long - mainly because to have them any longer increased the cost of carriage for the materials dramatically.  Not ideal but it seems to work.  The joints are well staggered and for safety I'll probably fishplate them on the inside of the framework. 

 

My carpentry skills are such that I could turn HMS Victory to a pile of splinters just by looking at it but so far, so good. Tomorrow I need to get some opaque film on part of the windows and, outdoors there is a rather long trench to fill in...

 

post-14258-0-30124300-1547235451_thumb.jpeg

 

 

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.