TransPennine mixed class 123 & class 124 sets

[ColinK]

In the late 1970s and early 1980s I saw services in the Hope Valley operated by four car dmus made up from a mix of former WR class 123 Inter-City dmus and class 124 TransPennine units. Can anyone advise on the make up of these sets? Even better if anyone knows the coach numbers of the individual sets.

[Bomag]

The stock was whatever Botanic Gardens had working. The limited times I saw them at Leeds (just before withdrawal) would indicate that they did not work in fixed sets.

[Rivercider]

I saw a few of these combos on my trips north, here is a set at Barnetby.

 

Passing Barnetby is a set formed 51955, 59841 (51973), 59769, 52104, 13/10/82.

 

edit - the set I travelled from Sheffield was formed 51953, 59819, 59771, 52089.

edit -  from my notes another set at Barnetby was 52087, 59237, 59827, 51954.

edit -  and at Doncaster a set formed 51958, 59840, 59238, 52105.

 

 

cheers

Edited September 24, 2018 by Rivercider

[hexagon789]

From railcar.co.uk:

 

"The combined fleet was made up into seventeen typically mixed 4-car sets, plenty to cover the twelve diagrams. An example set formation in 1980 could be: Cl 123 DMBS; Cl 124 MBS; Cl 123 TC ; and a Cl 124 DMC. In a formation like this with three power cars they had almost 9hp/ton, or if only two then it was 6.3hp/ton.

 

In '81 the engine removal scheme began, although this did not have any effect on timings.

 

The Hull - Leeds - Manchester trains were withdrawn in Oct. '81.

 

Around the same time the sets were reformed to eliminate where possible mixed power car sets, which also avoided too many sets having two brake vans and a loss in seating capacity. They were now formed of: nine Cl 123 (DMBS, TC, Cl 124 TS, DMS) giving 24 1st + 196 2nd class seats; five Cl 124 (DMS, TBS, Cl 123 TS, DMC); a unique Cl 124 set in which the Cl 123 TS was a downgraded TC, these six sets gave 30 1st + 196 2nd class seats; and two Cl 124 (DMC, 2x TBS, DMC) which each gave 30 1st + 180 2nd class seats."

 

So it would appear that there was a basic couple of formations which were made up to give a certain level of capacity in each class.

[EddieK]

Looking at the post above and comparing with my observations, There were certainly a few sets that conformed to the "Class 123" plan as above. Also some with Class 124 DMC at both ends with a de-engined intermediate brake coach as described. 

 

If you want details of actual formations I observed, get back to me! 

 

Obviously the good times ended in May 1984 when the loco hauled service took over. Prior to that it was possible to get a £1.20 return from Sheffield to Donny with a student railcard and if you were not ticket-checked it may have been possible to have two return trips....

[eastwestdivide]

Doncaster 12/6/82:

51956 59771 59836 51955

51962 59767 59838 51964

51963 59770 59833 51960

Rotherham 12/6/82:

52103 59839 59235 51954

Sheffield 12/6/82:

52092 59772 59821 52097

 

Might have some more locked away if you want.

[45125]

From railcar.co.uk:

 

"The combined fleet was made up into seventeen typically mixed 4-car sets, plenty to cover the twelve diagrams. An example set formation in 1980 could be: Cl 123 DMBS; Cl 124 MBS; Cl 123 TC ; and a Cl 124 DMC. In a formation like this with three power cars they had almost 9hp/ton, or if only two then it was 6.3hp/ton.

 

In '81 the engine removal scheme began, although this did not have any effect on timings.

 

The Hull - Leeds - Manchester trains were withdrawn in Oct. '81.

 

Around the same time the sets were reformed to eliminate where possible mixed power car sets, which also avoided too many sets having two brake vans and a loss in seating capacity. They were now formed of: nine Cl 123 (DMBS, TC, Cl 124 TS, DMS) giving 24 1st + 196 2nd class seats; five Cl 124 (DMS, TBS, Cl 123 TS, DMC); a unique Cl 124 set in which the Cl 123 TS was a downgraded TC, these six sets gave 30 1st + 196 2nd class seats; and two Cl 124 (DMC, 2x TBS, DMC) which each gave 30 1st + 180 2nd class seats."

 

So it would appear that there was a basic couple of formations which were made up to give a certain level of capacity in each class.

 

As someone who worked at BG, the sets were never reformed all vehicles being regarded as loose. There were enough vehicles to make up seventeen sets, but with vehicles in works and on exam this left enough vehicles to make up fourteen sets, plus the spare trailer cars of both types. An effort was made to balance the formation of the sets with regards to seating and luggage capacity, but sometimes this did not always work out due to what came off exam/repairs. The more power per ton quoted in many documents refers to the Albion engine at its top rating of 230hp, by the early seventies the engine had been derated to 200hp, with the exception of when neither Derby or Swindon could supply fuel pumps so some were overhauled locally by CAV agents.

 

When the Inter City units arrived at BG an effort was made to keep them in fixed sets but due to duties been more arduous that what they had previously this soon became impractical. An other idea was floated later on to have half sets ie driving car trailer copinatins but this was soon dropped.

 

Al Taylor

Edited September 24, 2018 by 45125

[GordonC]

Did they ever run multiple sets together? Was the mix up of class 123/124s like the 126s paired up where one end had a gangway for coupling sets up?

[E3109]

As an aside, there is a cracking photo online of a Swindon set being hauled eastwards past Dunford Bridge (West) box by a vo class 76, presumably ECS.

 

Thought it was on Flickr, but can't seem to find it. Think the loco is 76001.

[Holmesfeldian]

As an aside, there is a cracking photo online of a Swindon set being hauled eastwards past Dunford Bridge (West) box by a vo class 76, presumably ECS.

 

Thought it was on Flickr, but can't seem to find it. Think the loco is 76001.

 

 

[Gwiwer]

My observations at Sheffield and Hull during the period in question suggest that few attempts were made at fixed formations once the 6-car Trans-Pennine sets had effectively been broken up.  First by the loss of their buffet cars then with the mix-and-match approach adopted with the 123/124 combinations.  Basically - and in common with some (but by no means all) other DMU depots the maxim was "if it works couple it up and send it out".  Not quite as simple as that but to the layman that is the appearance it gave.

[EddieK]

Did they ever run multiple sets together? Was the mix up of class 123/124s like the 126s paired up where one end had a gangway for coupling sets up?

Not aware that any Class 123 nose end gangways were usable after they came to Yorkshire. On my spotting trips in the early 1980s, I only ever saw the Trans Pennine sets (124 and 123 or any combination thereof) running as four car units and not coupled to anything else. (In 1980 I saw a couple of triple sets, one pure 123, the other a 124 DMC - 124 TSL - 123 DMBS). 

 

In a discussion on Facebook, something emerged where in the late 1970s, before the 123s moved north, a five car Class 124 ran Liverpool - York and back on Sundays with an Allerton Class 108 at one end.

[E3109]

Interesting that it's only a 3-car set, hadn't noticed that before now.

En route Darnall perhaps?

[TravisM]

I always thought that the Swindon built DMU’s were the best looking and stylish rather than utilitarian with the Class 123’s the best of the bunch. Just my opinion..

Edited September 25, 2018 by jools1959

[Swindon 123]

Here are a few photos that are on my Flickr site of mixed sets. The vehicle numbers can be found when you look at the photo on Flickr.

 

A881B-001(HR) by Paul James, on Flickr

 

A881B-010(HR) by Paul James, on Flickr

 

A481B-016(HR) by Paul James, on Flickr

 

And if you can't find the time to build lots of Class 123/4 vehicles, make up the rest of the train with a Class 101 instead.

 

A481B-017(HR) by Paul James, on Flickr

 

Paul J.

[EddieK]

Did anyone on here make notes of Class 123 and 124 formations during 1980? (Just mulling over a potential project......)

[ColinK]

All good things come to people that wait.  I now have a model 123/124 four car set made for me by Silver Fox Models.  While they do sell kits, I ordered the RTR version as I didn't fancy the curved windscreens and painting them.  While it is fair to say that the underframe isn't up to the standards of the latest models (but its much more robust), the ends are well done, the side glazing almost flush and the livery excellent. From normal viewing distances it really looks like a 123/124, runs well and will sound good once I've fitted sound to it.  I'm very happy with it.

 

 

 

[45125]

On 25/09/2018 at 00:01, EddieK said:

Not aware that any Class 123 nose end gangways were usable after they came to Yorkshire. On my spotting trips in the early 1980s, I only ever saw the Trans Pennine sets (124 and 123 or any combination thereof) running as four car units and not coupled to anything else. (In 1980 I saw a couple of triple sets, one pure 123, the other a 124 DMC - 124 TSL - 123 DMBS). 

 

In a discussion on Facebook, something emerged where in the late 1970s, before the 123s moved north, a five car Class 124 ran Liverpool - York and back on Sundays with an Allerton Class 108 at one end.

When we first got the 123s the gangways were used, but they were soon sealed up due to driver complaints of draughts. When sealed the gangways had a sheet ply over the door and was painted yellow.

 

 

Al Taylor 

Edited July 5, 2020 by 45125