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Modelling the C&O - the Glen Ogle module


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Various things have been keeping me away from my workbench of late, not least an element of lethargy.

 

I have however, finally got my watchmakers lathe up and running.

I've gradually been building up the parts over the past year or so having bought and refurbished the headstock and associated parts a while ago.

The final piece was a cross-slide.

These were either going for silly money when I had the cash or seemed to be a bargain when I was skint.

In the end I took a punt on one that needed some TLC, one of screw adjusters wasn't working in one direction requiring you to push the bed across. 

Figuring these are old fashioned pieces of kit designed to be dismantled and parts replaced I bid and won at a reasonable price.

Dismantling it to clean up (1000 & 2000 grit , some Brasso and oil) I found all that was needed was the keyway aligning and the whole thing reassembling and all was good.

 

It still needed a toolpost though and a new one was duly ordered form China.

When it arrived I realised I had just assumed it would fit, in fact the base was too thick and wide for the rebate in the top of the cross-slide.

If only I had a lathe to turn it down...........

So my first bit of turning in anger was on some nice tool steel, after that I figured brass would be easy.

I still can't use the cross-slide as the toolpost holds the tool too high, I have a 6mm thick steel disc on order to form a rocker which should sort that problem.

 

Emboldened, I decide to attack the Darlington chimney for my 2MT.

I've struggled to find any dimensions or drawings but on the local market found a copy of Brian Haresnape's Ivatt & Riddles Locomotives for a couple of quid.

It contains basic drawings of all the standards and the Standard 2MTs were built in Darlington so has a similar chimney to the later Ivatt 2MTs.

 

So first go at turning (bare in mind this is with a hand graver) and I am pleasantly surprised.

 

 1808716760_2MTDarlochimney2.jpg.339aef0a5e46344d2e18fb285e8baea8.jpg

 

And compared to the original

 

894001775_2MTDarlochimney1.jpg.9c04e033eaba7e33792fb4ed2e974d2b.jpg

 

Once cut and finished with files

 

295309423_2MTDarlochimney3.jpg.4c0771a50644b22a3045743374b43b7e.jpg

 

The photo is a bit deceptive as the new brass chimney is sat on a boiler band making it look a little tall.

In actuality there is 0.9mm height difference and there was 4" difference on the real thing, so by my calcs I'm 0.3mm too tall.

I'll live with that!

 

It's not all sweetness and light though.

Whilst converting the chassis I managed to ping the Farish gear wheel across the room never to be seen again.

Has anyone any idea what number teeth gear I need to order as a spare?

Edited by Argos
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  • RMweb Gold
On 23/09/2018 at 22:12, Argos said:

Let the work commence....... :locomotive:

 

Given it was 18 months ago when I said this and haven't as yet started I may be accused of being a little on the optimistic side.....

 

The layout as drawn won't be built as it doesn't really work in the location I had planned.

I am struggling to find the motivation to model some of the stock required as it would look a bit out of place on Glencruitten.

Stripping out the Glen Ogle section should give a simple build (no pointwork) that would act as a nice display to frame trains of different eras.

It will run parade fashion with a traverser at either end.

 

I can also run N gauge stock awaiting conversion.

 

The current plan is a 6' module shown below

 

image.png.0385be3ba52fc96972a811741c7517a1.png

 

The lengths relate to the two bridges in the section.

 

Eventually I can build extensions out to include Killin Junction, the ultimate aim to have several scenes from the route with station scenes interspersed equally with open running sections.

The C&O route gives plenty of opportunity for this and in many respects the open running section of the route are more well known than the stations.

 

The impetus to get started was the dismantling of a bed that my daughter had stored in our shed, she no longer wants it (after letting us store it for several years....) however the frame will be upcycled (who needs a bed? :D) into a baseboard for this module.

 

Lockdown permitting we've a holiday planned upto the region in August when I can take some detailed photos and measurements of the bridges.

In the meantime getting the baseboards built, track and basic scenery down should fill time in between working on my Irish module for the DJLC.

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  • RMweb Gold

For those unfamiliar with the line here is the scene I am trying to capture as taken from the A85 the runs along side the other side of the valley (it is a cropped Streetview image from Google Earth).

 

801688751_GlenOglefromA851.JPG.5f667fc67a9251c2965463d8458669ca.JPG

 

I've slightly compressed the scene in the planned model as fit the smaller bridge in a 6' length I need to reduce the distance between the two bridges. The main viaduct is just over 450' long so 900mm (3') in 2mm scale.

 

I've not a lot of room behind the viaduct to model that land and given the size of the mountain behind (it continues above the viaduct for around another 1,000' or 2m in 2mmscale!) a skyline would be inappropriate.

 

I'm guessing some kind of 3d backscene will be required to generate the feeling of scale and wilderness.

 

 

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I've driven that road many times.  It must have been a spectacular journey in steam days.

 

It strikes me that some sort of holographic backscene might be the answer?

 

There has been a thread on Strathyre station on the CRA forum recently.

 

Jim

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17 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

It must have been a spectacular journey in steam days.

 

Indeed Jim, the viaduct section appears to be on a radius of around 650' and on a 1 in 70 gradient, any engine would be working hard in spectacular scenery.

What more could one want?

 

I've been following the Strathyre conversation over on the CRA forum although out of all the C&O station Strathyre is the one I like the least. Not sure why.

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The start on the module will be slightly delayed, the wood salvaged from the bed had obviously been stored in the shed too long and had warped.

 

All longitudinals were warped in the same direction, so I didn't notice at first, it was only when I turned them back to back the bend became apparent.

I sooner start out with straight wood so a trip the builder's merchant is required once I can get there.

 

The bed will become firewood.

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  • RMweb Gold

Fortuitously a trip to the builders merchant is not required.

My son has kindly donated his bed frame (we have bought him a replacement, I'm not that cruel.........)

 

This has enabled the frames to knocked together from the "up-cycled" wood.

 

308787177_GlenOglebaseboards.jpg.12bb2bf5487d020471282954faef25be.jpg

 

As the board will be mostly scenery I'm intending to leave the framing open and use an expanded polystyrene to build the contours. The track will sit on some 9mm ply about 6 inches above the framework to allow enough drop for the height of the viaduct (44ft according to Railscot so about 3.5") and then a couple of inches for the scenery to slope toward the front of the layout.

 

The ground will rise steeply behind with no sky visible on the back scene.

Creag na h-loliare the hill behind the viaduct tops out at just under 2,000' and the line is at about 750'.

No sky is visible in any photos of trains crossing the viaduct when viewed from the side.

 

I have widened the boards out another 3" to 1' 6" to give  a bit more depth, none the less space behind the viaduct is cramped so the ground will need to be steeper than reality.

 

The AnyRail plan has been printed out ready to cut the ply sub-road for the track.

A task for the weekend ahead.

 

1431738801_GlenOgleboardsandplan.jpg.db7c2c71dd378c0f2ef03c17eabf69ca.jpg

 

I'm looking forward to getting this up and running as I hope it will give me the spur to get some of the stock I want built.

Without some where to run them I was have difficulty getting the enthusiasm to attack the carriages required to replicate a days working on the C&O.

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A bit more work done today with the track bed cut out.

 

 Glen_Ogle_baseboards_2.jpg.0964c36502d1b92b299ae04c4b1bf84d.jpg

 

The narrow section are the two viaducts and as can be seen a significant portion to the module is on a bridge.

I'll have to give careful consideration as to how I support the track bed for the long viaduct.

 

The two halves are current being glued together along with some risers so hopefully all can get mounted tomorrow.

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Looking good Angus, the viaducts and backscene will frame trains beautifully.

I'm a big fan of reclaimed timber - Highbury uses the slats from my Mum's airing cupboard and the ply for Tucking Mill is from an old post war, austerity tall boy. The king of reclaimed timber is John Greenwood, you wont find two bits of timber of the same section under the North Cornwall! 

 

Jerry

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Thanks Jerry,

 

I am increasingly finding that shop bought timber is really poor quality and has a tendency to warp once home even if straight in the shop/yard.

Old furniture has always dried out and on the whole straight so provides a better starting point.

It's a bit of a problem is you need a lot of certain size though, it doesn't lend itself to multiple standardised module construction.

 

I just don't want anyone thinking my kids lose their bed every time I decide to build a model railway!

Edited by Argos
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On 04/07/2020 at 20:15, Argos said:

 

The narrow section are the two viaducts and as can be seen a significant portion to the module is on a bridge.

I'll have to give careful consideration as to how I support the track bed for the long viaduct.

 

The two halves are current being glued together along with some risers so hopefully all can get mounted tomorrow.

 

Do you have a plan of attack for the curved viaduct? 

 

I need to make a similar one as part of my side project in "finer Z", but I can't work out whether to produce the curve by making one face of each arch longer than its opposite number, or by making the piers wedge shaped and the arches regular. If that makes sense?

 

Really looking forward to seeing this module progress :)

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As I understand it, the arches were regular and the piers tapered, but no doubt there will be a civil engineer on here who will correct me on that! 

 

Jim

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1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

As I understand it, the arches were regular and the piers tapered, but no doubt there will be a civil engineer on here who will correct me on that! 

 

Jim

 

Andy's agreed with you and his day job involves railway bridges. 

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1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

As I understand it, the arches were regular and the piers tapered, but no doubt there will be a civil engineer on here who will correct me on that! 

 

Jim

 

I've just had a look at a few old drawings of curved viaducts, and they do seem to suggest that the piers are tapered (although the curves are so large a radius that the taper is very slight). Building an arch that was trapezoidal in plan would be a bit trickier than one that was square, but having seen the quality of stonework on some bridges, I have no doubt that the Victorian carpenters and stonemasons could do it if needed.

 

Andy

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3 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

As I understand it, the arches were regular and the piers tapered, but no doubt there will be a civil engineer on here who will correct me on that! 

 

Hi Jim,

 

Whilst I'm no civil engineer I have worked in construction for some 30 years now.

The arches need to be supported whilst being built and, as Andy suggests it would be so much easier to make the arch regular with the piers tapered.

Imagine have to build a tapered arch support consistently across 12 arches, it would tax even the most skilled joiner.

 

My plan is draw out the front and rear face independently with piers at the rear thick to allow for that longer dimension.

Just to make it more awkward the viaduct is on a 1:70 gradient which I am intending to replicate , so there is about a half inch rise along the length of the viaduct.

 

I'm not planning on start the actual structure until after a holiday to the area in August when I can get some detailed photos and dimensions.

 

At present everything is estimated from Google earth and other peoples' photos.

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It wouldn't be my first choice of month to visit the West Coast but our holiday was rescheduled from Easter for obvious reasons.

Clearly timed to provide fodder for the local insect population who are no doubt ravenous having missed out the normal tourist feasting.

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Forgive the mess! hopeful this photo will start to give a feel for the scene.

 

The track bed starts at 6"  above the frame top and rises to 7" above (approx 1 in 70 as the real thing) the thin supports will be aligned to the piers which will be built around them.

2012326338_GlenOglebaseboards3.jpg.864bc4f260a77e7be019319a6886d3db.jpg

 

This will allow plenty of space for the ground to fall away toward the viewer.

The backscene will be a further 12" above the track bed so hopefully the landscape will dominate.

 

Hopefully this is the view that will be replicated by the modelled scene.

 

344052857_GlenOglescenefromStreetview(3).JPG.e13d43f0c8ef960b4836d52b95e499b5.JPG

 

So far the layout has cost nothing other than time but I'm going to have purchase a 6'x2' sheet of ply for the backscene soon.

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Steady progress with Glen Ogle.

 

So far everything is being clamped and glued which slows down progress but the module is starting to take shape.

I also realised that I don't need a single sheet as a backscene as there is no sky to paint, the entirety will be covered by hillside.

This is a bonus as the entire module can be built from wood salvaged from furniture and sheet plywood I have lying around (so zero cost apart from the glue!).

Mind you, the amount of sheet ply I have does indicate the number of started and stalled projects I've had in the past!

 

I've placed the Killin School train (I know, there should be two brake thirds...) on the viaduct to give a sense of scale to the photos and check the effect of train dwarfed by the scenery that I am aiming for.

 

2062188942_GlenOglebaseboards4.jpg.d236b25c791ffa10cba381e0c34b324e.jpg

 

I need to add some more uprights to support the two viaducts but once the backscene and second half of the fascia is in place it will be time to start track laying.

 

I think it might work!

 

1370247453_GlenOglebaseboards5.jpg.83f9d85864b634eb65a03b10ab7122f0.jpg

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Argos said:

Steady progress with Glen Ogle.

 

So far everything is being clamped and glued which slows down progress but the module is starting to take shape.

I also realised that I don't need a single sheet as a backscene as there is no sky to paint, the entirety will be covered by hillside.

This is a bonus as the entire module can be built from wood salvaged from furniture and sheet plywood I have lying around (so zero cost apart from the glue!).

Mind you, the amount of sheet ply I have does indicate the number of started and stalled projects I've had in the past!

 

I've placed the Killin School train (I know, there should be two brake thirds...) on the viaduct to give a sense of scale to the photos and check the effect of train dwarfed by the scenery that I am aiming for.

 

2062188942_GlenOglebaseboards4.jpg.d236b25c791ffa10cba381e0c34b324e.jpg

 

I need to add some more uprights to support the two viaducts but once the backscene and second half of the fascia is in place it will be time to start track laying.

 

I think it might work!

 

1370247453_GlenOglebaseboards5.jpg.83f9d85864b634eb65a03b10ab7122f0.jpg

 

 

 

Despite the lack of any scenery, I don’t think I have ever seen a better depiction of the real benefit of 2mm scale modelling: a real sense of the railway being almost part of the landscape and the train list within it.

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So...... 10 days later and the boards are complete.

I've not posted any photos upto now as watching glue dry isn't a great spectator sport.

 

1976380863_GlenOglebaseboards6.jpg.4f9f5711473e0d86334d1058981417d0.jpg

 

1623940875_GlenOglebaseboards7.jpg.d4160593009f8275b52593b88c5e668a.jpg

 

Copperclad sleepers have been epoxied to the ends of the track bed in readiness to solder the rail ends to.

The next step is threading some easitrack and glueing it in place ready for the electrics.

 

Hopefully the progress here will be swift.

I need to get the track a electrics done before building up the scenery, once this is formed getting access to the underside of the track bed will be problematic.

Edited by Argos
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Thanks for all the likes and support :good_mini:.

 

Steady progress is being made with the track now down.

I tried a new approach which worked out well, I had a tube of 5 minute epoxy which was going a bit manky at the end so I used this.

For plain track on a constant curve as that through Glen Ogle it is ideal.

There is a nice "grab" as you lay the track which holds the curve and there is sufficient time to play around getting the curves smooth.

The setting time is sufficiently quick to avoid the need for lengthy weighting and clamping.

A bit expensive maybe, but then you only the track once (Hopefully!)

 

The view from the South

 

track_1.jpg.17b071cc34261394b722adde9cb89bb6.jpg

 

View from the north

track_2.jpg.35dbb7f60e208912ea3fea29085d4515.jpg

 

As can be seen I've altered the alignment slightly from the plan to smooth the curve onto the viaduct heading south.

 

I've also covered all exposed wood surfaces in a couple of coats on varnish.

 

On with the electrics next......

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  • RMweb Gold

I've not posted in a while, basically because I haven't been doing much modelling through the summer.

 

As the season turns to autumn I've built a couple of van kits, to get my eye in so to speak.

 

By the early 60s most of the photos of freight trains show a high percentage of van traffic. The beauty is in the variety of pre and post nationalisation vans used. The LMS variety are particularly diverse.

 

1039659371_threevans.jpg.a2214afef9cfa34bb5bae304801c6606.jpg

 

I've built up two of the association's LMS van kits, one is missing its roof as I was too enthusiastic in thinning the plastic so will have to make a new one.

The first van is an rebuilt ex-LNER fish van, the body is available from N Brass, the chassis from Caley Jim's Buchanan Kits range (as advertised in the current edition of the association's magazine). As would be expected from Jim the chassis builds up nicely. The only missing seems to be the brake connector protector which is easily made up from one of the spare brake levers on the etch.

 

The fish vans appear in photos of the line. I've another one on the bench which will be built up as the earlier version a few of which were still around in the 60s.

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1 hour ago, Argos said:

As would be expected from Jim the chassis builds up nicely. The only missing seems to be the brake connector protector which is easily made up from one of the spare brake levers on the etch.

Glad you are happy with it, @Argos.  Not sure what you mean by the missing part.  It was designed based on the Tatlow drawing for a couple of fellow members of the Forth and Clyde area group and neither of them mentioned it.

 

Jim

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