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Modelling the C&O - the Glen Ogle module

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Every since discovering a dusty volume of John Thomas's book on the Callander and Oban railway at the back of the school library in my early teens I have wanted to build a model of a station on the line.

 

In fact it is this desire which has lead me to pursue 2mmFS. I couldn't see how I was ever going to do the line justice in a larger scale and N gauge R-T-R was never going to provide the stock needed so some element of kit and scratch building would be required.

Over the years I have (slowly!) been building my skills to the point where a start is in sight, albeit it will be a least a year, probably two before timber is cut to start the layout.

 

In my teenage dreams the layout was going to be Callander station. Day trips to Callander were a regular feature of frequent stays with relatives in Glasgow, unfortunately this was after the line had been lifted, still the car park was in the old station area so I was aware of the line at an early age.

 

Even in 2mm scale Callander station would demand quire an area. It would also be quite intensive to work. Passenger trains were regularly broken up and reassembled here making it too intense for lone operation.

 

I've looked at various stations along the line and off up the Ballachulish branch but keep coming back to Killin Junction.

It had a relatively simple layout but has the connecting services from the Killin branch to add interest.

It also offers the expansion potential along the branch.

 

I plan to model two time frames. In my teenage dreams the model was set in Caledonian times with Oban bogies Mks I & II storming up Glenogle (I've never been a fan of the later Pickergill Oban bogie Mk III) so a 1910-14 timeframe will be used.

 

In the course of researching the line there are a vast amount of late 50s early 60s photos around and I am also drawn to this period.

The Black 5s were losing their dominance on the route with the first diesels (Class 21s and 27s) making an appearance. The last of the pre-grouping Caley designs were still around much rebuilt and hacked about but still having a run-down charm. 

A later period of 58-62 will also be run.

 

What I really like about both periods is the variety of coaching stock.

In the earlier period 45', 50' and 57' Caley coaches combined with WCJS and the odd Midland coach on excursion to give a eclectic feel to the train compositions.

The later date mixed LMS periods 2,3 & 4 stock with BR Mk1s and the odd LNER Gresley design thrown in for good measure.  

 

Through this topic I intend to document the rolling stock builds and anything else that gets built in preparation for the main layout.

 

As far as layout design goes I always intended to compress the station slightly. However, the using the recently added functionality in Templot, I've upload the 1900 25" OS map and overlaid the trackwork.

 

post-13616-0-86992100-1537736474.jpg

 

In the room I have potentially available the station can be fitted dead scale. Interestingly the point work seem to be a combination of no 9 and 10s.

The plan is only rough as I have to sort the sleeper spacing, create interlaced turnouts etc.

 

The intention is that the track will pass through the station in the Callander direction then rise on a steepish gradient (1 in 30?) through Glenogle complete with viaduct (again to scale).

This is the wrong way round as this should be a decent as per the prototype but I can't make this work on the layout so I am content to live with change.

The viaduct scene should give a nice backdrop to the station area but be sufficiently higher not to intrude.

I am intending to have a four road fiddle yard cassettes on each exit to assist train turn around and swapping between periods.

 

Let the work commence....... :locomotive:

 

 

 

 

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Just do it. It will be amazing. Killin Junction awaits....

 

Dava

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I've walked quite a lot of the C&O around Callender and Strathyre(*)  I'm looking forward to seeing the layout develop. It must have been a spectacular journey. 

 

Are you going to do a Killin Pug?

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I line of which I'm very fond, and Killin junction in particular, and one I have visited on many occasions. I have drawn a plan in AnyRail, in N gauge (and for Callander for that matter), so the pointwork doesn't flow as well as handbuilt track will, but all the same it's a great location for full length trains.

 

Is there going to be a partition/backscene between the station and the vaiduct?

 

Backtrack (the magazine) had a feature on KJ a couple of months back with nice images of part of the buildings, etc. If it will be of interest I can scan and send it to you if you like.

 

Best

 

Scott

post-19592-0-90774000-1537789461_thumb.jpg

Edited by scottystitch
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Just do it. It will be amazing. Killin Junction awaits....

 

Dava

 

Thanks Dava, I've been planning this for a while in various formats, I think I've settled on the layout as planned.

 

One thing I have learnt in the past 10 years or so modelling is that it is difficult to work on a layout and building the stock.

Your attention gets spread too thin and nothing seems to move forward.

My current Glencruitten layout should be finished toward the end of the year and will enable stock to be run.

By focusing on the stock build now and various layout elements I'm hoping it will come together quickly once started and the momentum will build rather than stall.

 

 

I've walked quite a lot of the C&O around Callender and Strathyre(*)  I'm looking forward to seeing the layout develop. It must have been a spectacular journey. 

 

Are you going to do a Killin Pug?

 

Thanks Pete, I've cycled the route on a couple of occasions and driven through Glenogle more times than I care to remember.

It is a criminal waste that the line was closed.

 

A Killin Pug will be out of period as the line was in the hands of the Drummond 171 tanks by 1910.

 

post-13616-0-17011100-1537815975.jpg

 

That said I would like to model some of the earlier engines including the original Oban radial tanks (which would be an anathema as they were withdrawn from the line before Killin Junction was built).

 

 

 

So I might just have various plans for the Killin pugs in hand......and wheel sets.....

It will be a later build as I need to focus on the core stock.

The main challenge is getting adequate gearing in such a small engine as the small motors required tend to very fast spinning.

 

post-13616-0-96166800-1537816561.jpg

 

There are plans for the coaches in the above photo in Mike Williams's Caledonian coaches book too.........

 

 

 

.

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I line of which I'm very fond, and Killin junction in particular, and one I have visited on many occasions. I have drawn a plan in AnyRail, in N gauge (and for Callander for that matter), so the pointwork doesn't flow as well as handbuilt track will, but all the same it's a great location for full length trains.

 

Is there going to be a partition/backscene between the station and the vaiduct?

 

Backtrack (the magazine) had a feature on KJ a couple of months back with nice images of part of the buildings, etc. If it will be of interest I can scan and send it to you if you like.

 

Best

 

Scott

 

Hi Scott, the AnyRail plan looks good are you planning to build it?

 

I'm going to be using fiddle roads about 3' in length which will allow for Caley period trains of upto 7 carriages, longer trains did run but tended to be double headed.

For the 50/60s period I think I will be down to 6 carriage trains, most in this period seem to be upto 8 carriages, so a minor compromise.

 

My fag packet calcs show the whole run is just over a scale three quarters of mile, as speeds were quite slow on the line (especially against the gradient!) I reckon each train will be on scene including a stop at the station for around 2 minutes.

 

I'm not planning a partition between the station and the viaduct, I reckon that would look artificial and detract from the scene.

I am planning some breaks in the eyeline though using topography and trees to ensure a train is not visible all the way round form a single location.

 

In an earlier plan I had included the Falls of Leny bridge at the exit of the horseshoe curve, the bridge bursts out a heavy wooded bankside so would make a great scene and break in one.

I started to feel it wouldn't work though as I would have to lose the river somewhere and the proximity to the Glenogle scene would over egg the pudding so to speak.

I'm hoping just to create an open moorland feel as befits the location:-

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36102364574/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

Over the years I have amassed quite a collection of magazine articles on the line but I must have missed the recent backtracks article!

I'll track down a copy, thanks for information!

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I've just realised that Argos is also building RNAS Glencruitten, so Killin Jct is obviously going to be brilliant as well. And both being built in Leek, Staffs, not the North of Scotland, so there's a good chance of seeing the layouts here in the Midlands!

 

Dava

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Thanks for your enthusiasm Dava!

 

I am well aware I won't be the first to post grandiose plans on RMweb before disappearing leaving a trail of nothing but hot air....

 

I've already got some builds underway for Killin Junction so hopefully there will be modelling substance alongside the waffle.

 

The WCJS sleeper build in the thread linked on my signature being a case in point. 

This will form a key part of the first rake of carriages I intend to build, which will be the 5.40 am Stirling to Oban as detailed in the 1915 Marshalling circular.

 

I've also some semi finished builds for the 50/60s time period to finish.

 

The plan is for the layout to be movable so could be exhibited if it is a good enough standard (in looks and running) although I am not expecting it to be ready before 2023!

I'm not the fastest layout builder and most of my mistakes to date have been through rushing and trying to take short cuts.

Edited by Argos

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One of the reasons I wanted to model a real location is so that I can model specific rolling stock associated with the area.

 

I have always been a fan of the Ivatt 2MTs and as a teenager had the Hornby version.

Although by no means a scale model it did represent a work-a-day loco that appeared in so many pictures at a time when the manufacture's focus seemed to be on the mainline express engines.

 

A few years ago I picked up a Farish model in green for a reasonable sum with the intent of converting it to 2mmFS with the help of one of Nigel Hunt's etches:-

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/small_suppliers/nigelhunt/

 

For reasons unremembered the conversion stalled and was set aside, seeing Nick Mitchell's Jubilee build inspired me to dust off the conversion.

 

In the 1962 time frame a couple of 2MTs were based at Oban, these were locos 46460 and 46468.

They were mainly working the Ballachulish branch and acting as station pilots in Oban.

As the Oban depot was by now reduced to stabling only the engines would have to return to Stirling for boiler wash outs and other servicing needs.

I am presuming that they also might have stood in on the daily stopping freight from Oban to Callander, perhaps working back for their routine maintenance.

 

46468 caught my eye for a couple of reasons, she was built in Darlington so had that works taller, more slender chimney which I felt would make change from the norm, although I am struggling to find dimensions for this chimney.

The other reason is that in several colour photos she is seen sporting red smokebox number and shed code.

A couple of other Oban engines had these, presumably something local to the depot.

 

post-13616-0-41052800-1546024884_thumb.jpg

 

She is seen here in an appalling state working tank wagons back to the yard.

Thankfully in most other photos of the period she is looking a bit cleaner and more loved!

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-lmsr/london-midland-scottish-railway/2f-ivatt-class-2-2-6-0/hA88D4633#ha88d4633

 

I had started work on the tender (the easy bit!) and thought I might as well finish this off first.

The Farish model is very good to start with (streets ahead of my old Hornby version!) but was missing the small square panels high up on the tender cab and the bars protecting the  windows of the tender cab.

Two 1mm squares were cut out of 5 thou plastic, glued in place then drilled to represent the hole in the centre (what were these? Lifting eyes screw holes?).

The bars were cut from 0.2mm brass and glued in place.

 

Once painted, I'm quite chuffed with the result (ignore the wonky looking bars in the second photo, there is some camera distortion going on here)

 

post-13616-0-44017300-1546025417_thumb.jpg

 

post-13616-0-65780100-1546025461_thumb.jpg

 

post-13616-0-23671200-1546025490_thumb.jpg

 

Now I just need to sort the difficult bit...the engine.

 

 

 

 

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I meant to post this a while back and have just tripped over the pictures whilst looking for another photo.

 

Whilst I had the decals out to finish the 2MT tender I also took the opportunity to change the identity of a signature loco for Killin Junction.

 

In 1962 4MT tanks took over the Killin service, and for me are one the iconic images of the line, hauling a single Thompson coach, occasionally with a goods van also attached.

 

image.png.1afb38ceb67ea8bec5e5531da1b42948.png

 

Clearly a 4MT is required!

80028, 80093 and 80126 seemed to be regulars, all working a stint on the branch before returning home to their Perth shed for a boiler wash out being replaced on the branch by one of their sisters.

 

80126 won out as she features most in photographs, including a personal favourite above.

 

1638687875_4mt80126.jpg.ab90fd4e00cee0810d36fa3ed13b049e.jpg

 

Her she is after an identity change and OLE warning signs moved to reflect the prototype.

Please ignore the failed attempt at weathering on the cylinders, a few more layers required yet.

I still need to finescale the chassis.

I am contemplating trying to adapt one of Nigel Hunt's Fairburn 4Mt etches, or is anyone aware of other options?

 

(and yes a Thompson 5 compartment D361 brake 3rd will follow shortly....)

Edited by Argos
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Hi PH ,

 

Yes thanks,there are quite a few of her at Killin. I'm intending to model summer as this was the busy period on the line with heavy loaded trains to accommodate holiday traffic and excursion specials.

 

So no snow ploughs sadly. 

Edited by Argos

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8 hours ago, Argos said:

I meant to post this a while back and have just tripped over the pictures whilst looking for another photo.

 

Whilst I had the decals out to finish the 2MT tender I also took the opportunity to change the identity of a signature loco for Killin Junction.

 

In 1962 4MT tanks took over the Killin service, and for me are one the iconic images of the line, hauling a single Thompson coach, occasionally with a goods van also attached.

 

image.png.1afb38ceb67ea8bec5e5531da1b42948.png

 

Clearly a 4MT is required!

80028, 80093 and 80126 seemed to be regulars, all working a stint on the branch before returning home to their Perth shed for a boiler wash out being replaced on the branch by one of their sisters.

 

80126 won out as she features most in photographs, including a personal favourite above.

 

1638687875_4mt80126.jpg.ab90fd4e00cee0810d36fa3ed13b049e.jpg

 

Her she is after an identity change and OLE warning signs moved to reflect the prototype.

Please ignore the failed attempt at weathering on the cylinders, a few more layers required yet.

I still need to finescale the chassis.

I am contemplating trying to adapt one of Nigel Hunt's Fairburn 4Mt etches, or is anyone aware of other options?

 

(and yes a Thompson 5 compartment D361 brake 3rd will follow shortly....)

Hi Argos

 

Those D361s get everywhere!   They're like buses, look everywhere for pictures and then two turn up at once!   But you've now put me in a dilemma.   The picture Jerry (queensquare) posted in his Bath Queen Square thread of a D361 on the Highbridge branch in Somerset shows one in unlined maroon, your picture shows a lined version.   So, modelling an area between the two, what version of the livery do I apply to mine when it's built?   Lined, unlined or one side lined, the other not? 

 

Regards

 

John

 

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Hi Doncaster Green.

 

I wouldn't worry too much. A couple of D361s worked the Killin branch. One was lined , one was unlined.

My model will be the latter as I fitted all the door furniture in the flat so now cannot get the lining on.

 

Another lesson learned!

 

I'll post some more pictures when I get home tonight.

 

Various Thompson brake carriages were based on the branch, so far I've found photos of a 4 compartment brake 3rd (lined), the 5 compartment brake 3rds mentioned above and video footage of a 6 compartment brake composite.

 

The composite appears to have been a bit camera shy, so I am guessing that it wasn't on the branch that long.

 

The branch train was normally one carriage , formed from either of the brake 3rds. The composite seems to have been added for busy periods.

 

In addition to trundling up and down the branch an afternoon school train ran ECS to Callander to collect school kids and return them Killin Junction.

 

This train was made up of both 4&5 compartment brake 3rds.

 

On return one coach was dropped at Killin Junction, the second work forward to Luib where it was attached to a freight working becoming a mixed working as far a Crianlarich. The 2nd coach was dropped here and worked back to Killin Junction on a return freight working.

 

On returning light engine from Luib the engine then worked the first carriage to Killin.

 

All in all quite a faff! Interesting to model from an operations point of view though.

 

Edited by Argos
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10 hours ago, Argos said:

I meant to post this a while back and have just tripped over the pictures whilst looking for another photo.

 

Whilst I had the decals out to finish the 2MT tender I also took the opportunity to change the identity of a signature loco for Killin Junction.

 

In 1962 4MT tanks took over the Killin service, and for me are one the iconic images of the line, hauling a single Thompson coach, occasionally with a goods van also attached.

 

image.png.1afb38ceb67ea8bec5e5531da1b42948.png

 

 

What a fabulous picture of a very modelable train. As John said, those Thompson D361s really did get to both ends of the country! I have now managed to source one so can add it to my slowly growing collection of stock for an early 60s SDJR branch scene.

 

Jerry

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15 hours ago, Argos said:

I meant to post this a while back and have just tripped over the pictures whilst looking for another photo.

 

I still need to finescale the chassis.

I am contemplating trying to adapt one of Nigel Hunt's Fairburn 4Mt etches, or is anyone aware of other options?

 

 

I think the GF Fairburn and standard 4MT chassis are the same, though I've not been able to check them side by side. Anybody else know? I can send you a Fairburn chassis etch to check whether it would work if you want.

 

Nig H

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5 hours ago, Argos said:

 

 

I wouldn't worry too much. A couple of D361s worked the Killin branch. One was lined , one was unlined.

My model will be the latter as I fitted all the door furniture in the flat so now cannot get the lining on.


 

Hi Argos

 

Like you I tend to fit the grab handles with the side in the flat, mainly because I can then solder them in and file back the inside so it doesn't interfere with the glazing (when I get round to fitting it).  I leave the door handles until the coach is painted and then pop them in with cyano.   So, like you I will have problems if I want a lined version.

 

I wonder how much the existence of lining is down to the works that did the last repaint?   It does seem a bit of a lottery.   I have pictures of LT&S section stock some of which is lined but most is not.   The two Thompson 4 Comp BTs that ended up on the Hemyock branch weren't lined.   Most of the pictures I have of East Midlands stock appear to be unlined but the pictures are B&W and the dates are such that they could be crimson (which was not lined on NG Stock) rather than maroon.   More research needed, or do I just carry on and hope that nobody notices if it should have been lined?

 

Regards

 

John

 

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If you don't line them and then someone tells you they should be lined, ask them to provide irrefutable documentary proof!   :D

 

Jim

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6 hours ago, Nig H said:

I think the GF Fairburn and standard 4MT chassis are the same, though I've not been able to check them side by side. Anybody else know? I can send you a Fairburn chassis etch to check whether it would work if you want.

 

Nig H

 

Thanks for the kind offer Nigel,

 

I have done a bit of investigation and the wheelbase, size and cylinders all seem to be the same between the real Fairburn 4MT and standard version.

There maybe some difference in valve gear but I think this will be minimal.

I'm guessing the Farish chassis are all but identical.

 

I was planning to place an order at the end of the month (after pay day!) as there are a couple of things on my shopping list.

I'm trying to focus on getting Glencruitten finished for the June supermeet and get some Caley stock built so can't afford to get to distracted!

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As I mentioned earlier, some links to Ernies Railway archive which has great colour pictures of the C&O line in the 1960s'

 

I've focused on 80126 and her assorted Thompson coaches:-

 

On the daily outing to Callander for the School run

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36764891742/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36764891572/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/46323623061/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

both lined and unlined D361 5 compartment brake 3rd present :D.

 

and now at Killin Junction and Killin

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36765631642/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36797896801/in/album-72157688374962505/

 

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6 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

Most of the pictures I have of East Midlands stock appear to be unlined but the pictures are B&W and the dates are such that they could be crimson (which was not lined on NG Stock) rather than maroon.  

 

Actually that isn't quite right because crimson non-gangwayed stock WAS lined initially. I think that the practice was abandoned because a lot of NG stock was still panelled and the lining tended to look awful wherever it was placed relative to waist panels. While I am aware that some maroon NG stock was lined and some wasn't, I am afraid that I can't give you chapter and verse on that because I lived on the Southern and stock in 1956 green was never lined.

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All this talk of Thompson coaches got in the mood for a quick mock up.

 

The coach still needs work (a lot!): glazing needs fitting, the end window bars need to be applied, the paint touched up, the sides fixing (they are held on with blu-tak here).

The ride height is also a little high so needs reducing.

Annoyingly the print lines are re-appearing on the 3d roof suggesting that I didn't get rid of all the wax.

 

I may look at an etched replacement in the long term, still it captures the essence of what I am trying to achieve. 

 

You can hear those timber beams groaning from here.....

 

1287165544_4mtD361mockup.jpg.29e93624334f074fd372f4684ac80bee.jpg

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13 hours ago, bécasse said:

Actually that isn't quite right because crimson non-gangwayed stock WAS lined initially. I think that the practice was abandoned because a lot of NG stock was still panelled and the lining tended to look awful wherever it was placed relative to waist panels. 

Must admit I wasn’t aware of that.   I know with a lot of pictures of Gresley panelled stock if the light is right and highlighting the top beading they can look lined, but I usually dismiss that as an optical illusion.   The period I am interested in is post 1956/57, right on the livery change, due to a building at the back of my layout that wasn’t built until 1956.  Hopefully, by this time any crimson stock that was originally lined would have had a repaint.

 

Regards

 

John

 

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46 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

The period I am interested in is post 1956/57, right on the livery change, due to a building at the back of my layout that wasn’t built until 1956.  Hopefully, by this time any crimson stock that was originally lined would have had a repaint.

There might just have been the odd vehicle around given that vehicles which only got used a few days a year often had extended repainting schedules, but it really would have been the odd vehicle (and if you were to model one for your period I think that you would need to photographic evidence to silence the inevitable exhibition critics).

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On 13/02/2019 at 20:54, Argos said:

 

Thanks for the kind offer Nigel,

 

I have done a bit of investigation and the wheelbase, size and cylinders all seem to be the same between the real Fairburn 4MT and standard version.

There maybe some difference in valve gear but I think this will be minimal.

I'm guessing the Farish chassis are all but identical.

 

I was planning to place an order at the end of the month (after pay day!) as there are a couple of things on my shopping list.

I'm trying to focus on getting Glencruitten finished for the June supermeet and get some Caley stock built so can't afford to get to distracted!

 

AFAIK, the valve gear is identical (one the real thing at least). However, the BR Standard 4MT had both fluted and plain coupling rods.

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